While it's true that a BLM doesn't have a ~20sec delay between EACH spell casted, thus they are free to chain spells back to back (automaton frame can't stagger(iirc)), it doesn't necessarily mean that they "out nuke" a BLM frame. A proper geared PUP can actually outnuke a BLM, inside or out. And yet, there's so many people that say otherwise. My linkshell does VWNMs and we have enough people there for staggering, so I'd like to go PUP for hate-free nuking/support(as /rdm or /sch), but no luck. The only times a BLM would out nuke a BLM frame is Empy armor set proc. But, still...
- The automaton can be deactivated every minute, reseting MP pool to 100% and clearing all enmity. It also resets spell casting timers to full.
- BLMs can reset enmity every 10 minutes. Or every time they die.
- A weakened Puppetmaster can still nuke using the BLM frame since "double weakness" does not apply to the automaton.
- A weakened BLM can nuke still, but with a limited MP pool. And should they die again, they're completely useless.
- While the BLM frame is providing damage, a PUP/(RDM or SCH) can be tossing Cures. Granted this is limited to Cure III, PUP does have access to most mage gear to help with this problem.
- Modern day BLMs always sub RDM anyway, limiting them to Cure III as well.
This is back during the 90 cap. Thunder V with Atma of the Lion/Ultimate/Beyond does 5800~.
If anyone else has anything to say, please go ahead. And I'm not saying that a BLM frame is more "flexible" for situations that call for stagger. I'm just saying it seems to be a safer, higher damage output than a BLM nuking would be.
I don't see how you are nuking higher than a BLM, my blm does that on Bliz5 and I don't even have Blizzaja yet. You also forget how many proc's BLM has and the fact that they have stun which makes them infinitely more useful than a PUP. Also they can stun double weak as well.
Also if the deal was best dmg, if we are talking about voidwatch, most BLMs should have the abyssite thing that gives fanatics drink. This means they can nuke their hearts out for 1m, assuming no dangerous magic spells, and cycle thru a list of spells for dmg including bliz5, thunder5, comet and ja spells. If they proc again, they can do it once more.
I don't see how you are nuking higher than a BLM, my blm does that on Bliz5 and I don't even have Blizzaja yet. You also forget how many proc's BLM has and the fact that they have stun which makes them infinitely more useful than a PUP. Also they can stun double weak as well.
Yes, it's true for the stun part, and I did say BLM is overall better because of the staggering. But, could you maybe post a screenshot of said damage?
Pups are creepy and wierd and nobody likes us. Just get used to it.
We can't proc and our stoopid puppet just gets in the way most of the time, like derpy wyverns and summoners that leave diablos all the time.
It's ANNOYING!!!
To recap, Nobody likes us, we smell funny, Pup is a SOLO job, Get used to it.
If you talk about a single cast, yes maybe a good geared pup can beat a blm. But for overall dmg the puppet loses terribly since it has its limits. Gap which is supposed to be filled when the master fights too, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Like I said, BLM is more useful because of staggering/stunning. All I said in the OP was the automaton hits harder and easier to clear hate. So, instead of having a PUP with a MAB and BLM frame skill up go something else for damage, people could consider the automaton as another, possibly better, choice for damage.
EDIT - and that it's damage isn't limited to weakness.
6560 on a buffalo is average, not ceiling, and considering how squishy they are to magic, thats a very poor example. And thats all I am going to say, this is a pointless argument, BLM is the top nuking job, WHM is the top healing job, SE has gone out of their way to solidify this.
Like I said, BLM is more useful because of staggering/stunning. All I said in the OP was the automaton hits harder and easier to clear hate. So, instead of having a PUP with a MAB and BLM frame skill up go something else for damage, people could consider the automaton as another, possibly better, choice for damage.
EDIT - and that it's damage isn't limited to weakness.
Except showing us a screenshot of your nuke on an exp fodder mob doesn't really show that PUP is a better choice for damage. PUP will not beat out BLM for damage in Voidwatch.
6560 on a buffalo is average, not ceiling, and considering how squishy they are to magic, thats a very poor example. And thats all I am going to say, this is a pointless argument, BLM is the top nuking job, WHM is the top healing job, SE has gone out of their way to solidify this.
In terms of being able to nuke the most times during any given fight.
BLM > BLM frame
In terms of damage per cast
BLM < BLM Frame.
What mob would you like me to test on? A WOE mob? An NM?
Except showing us a screenshot of your nuke on an exp fodder mob doesn't really show that PUP is a better choice for damage. PUP will not beat out BLM for damage in Voidwatch.
Very well, I shall do my best to get to a VWNM on PUP.
You are missing the point, it doesn't matter if you are doing ~400 more dmg than a blm per nuke. You aren't as useful as one and if dmg was a top priority they have access to temp items that allows them to blow your dmg away by cycling nukes. Even if a blm is double weak (drain still works if anything) they can stun and proc lol, which gives the entire group a huge boost via temp items each time. Also BLM/DRG is an option.
Something with high Int that is actually capable of resisting at a good rate. How does a blm frame cope with that?
BLM frame copes with most NMs quite well actually. They don't get resisted all that much thanks to attachments/gear. As with any properly geared BLM out there.
(i usually take MM instead of BM but i didnt care about MP, the result is kinda the same anyway)
And of course i have a well geared blm : http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/43563
(i guess i only need the yagudo hat and the new int +4 grip to have -my- dream gear)
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Yes 6k+ is average on abyssea mobs (outside af proc/critical magic), not on buffalo.
And yes, outside abyssea my pup outdd my blm on a same nuke, the blm who says something different is a liar.
But of course, there is no way that a pup outparse a (good) blm, and i dont understand why the initial author did this topic, since spike dmg means nothing and because blm and pup are 2 differents jobs which have a very different role
You are missing the point, it doesn't matter if you are doing ~400 more dmg than a blm per nuke. You aren't as useful as one and if dmg was a top priority they have access to temp items that allows them to blow your dmg away by cycling nukes.
(i usually take MM instead of BM but i didnt care about MP, the result is kinda the same anyway)
And of course i have a well geared blm : http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/43563
(i guess i only need the yagudo hat and the new int +4 grip to have -my- dream gear)
------------------
Yes 6k+ is average on abyssea mobs (outside af proc/critical magic), not on buffalo.
And yes, outside abyssea my pup outdd my blm on a same nuke, the blm who says something different is a liar.
But of course, there is no way that a pup outparse a (good) blm, and i dont understand why the initial author did this topic, since spike dmg means nothing and because blm and pup are 2 differents jobs which have a very different role
Did it in hopes some people might consider PUP as another source of damage for VWNM rather than a solo job, as most pups now a days have accepted themselves to be.
(i usually take MM instead of BM but i didnt care about MP, the result is kinda the same anyway)
And of course i have a well geared blm : http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/43563
(i guess i only need the yagudo hat and the new int +4 grip to have -my- dream gear)
------------------
Yes 6k+ is average on abyssea mobs (outside af proc/critical magic), not on buffalo.
And yes, outside abyssea my pup outdd my blm on a same nuke, the blm who says something different is a liar.
But of course, there is no way that a pup outparse a (good) blm, and i dont understand why the initial author did this topic, since spike dmg means nothing and because blm and pup are 2 differents jobs which have a very different role
If PUP can buff up with the manuevers to increase dmg to show for a epeen SS then so can BLM with ascetics drink lol.
BLMs dmg output isn't in their individual spells, it usually doesn't stack up very well when compared spell by spell to a SCH or even as you note, a (lol)PUP frame. However BLM can do its own kind of "Zerg" where is spams all their high level spells (Tier5, aja, aga3, am2) and does quite a bit of damage. Not to mention the procs...
That coupled with Manawall, Emnity Douse and if necessary Manafront is what makes a BLM a fierce competitor. It's essentially Epeen vs DOT. You're pup can't really even come close.
While it's true that a BLM doesn't have a ~20sec delay between EACH spell casted, thus they are free to chain spells back to back (automaton frame can't stagger(iirc)), it doesn't necessarily mean that they "out nuke" a BLM frame. A proper geared PUP can actually outnuke a BLM, inside or out. And yet, there's so many people that say otherwise. My linkshell does VWNMs and we have enough people there for staggering, so I'd like to go PUP for hate-free nuking/support(as /rdm or /sch), but no luck. The only times a BLM would out nuke a BLM frame is Empy armor set proc. But, still...
- The automaton can be deactivated every minute, reseting MP pool to 100% and clearing all enmity. It also resets spell casting timers to full.
- BLMs can reset enmity every 10 minutes. Or every time they die.
- A weakened Puppetmaster can still nuke using the BLM frame since "double weakness" does not apply to the automaton.
- A weakened BLM can nuke still, but with a limited MP pool. And should they die again, they're completely useless.
- While the BLM frame is providing damage, a PUP/(RDM or SCH) can be tossing Cures. Granted this is limited to Cure III, PUP does have access to most mage gear to help with this problem.
- Modern day BLMs always sub RDM anyway, limiting them to Cure III as well.
This is back during the 90 cap. Thunder V with Atma of the Lion/Ultimate/Beyond does 5800~.
If anyone else has anything to say, please go ahead. And I'm not saying that a BLM frame is more "flexible" for situations that call for stagger. I'm just saying it seems to be a safer, higher damage output than a BLM nuking would be.
This is back during the 90 cap. Thunder V with Atma of the Lion/Ultimate/Beyond does 5800~.
