"Atheist Life vs. Religious Life" [video]

Carbuncle.Lynxblade

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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2011-06-30 08:34:17

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I just got off work and im going to bed, But you have to admit instead of atheist people and religious people arguing at each other over stupid beliefs, its better to list things both sides have done for humanity, maybe later I will make a Thread called Atheist accomplishments vs religious accomplishments.

The rules will be, you can list 1 person atheist or religous, and then tell why his/her contribution is important.

Goodnight

Ifrit.Daemun

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:35:05

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

@Vinvv, im not talking about single person accomplishments, im talking about atheist as a whole, and also you can list all of that stuff atheist have accomplished, but religion has still accomplished alot more

Name me one thing religion has accomplished.

I see alot of religious charity groups that help out people(even though some are probably corrupt). I don't see any (or at least probably not that many) groups of atheist people helping out the needy.

Lets see
Robert Wilson, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates

Those are individual people, Talking about groups

Groups are comprised of multiple individuals?
Do you want foundations?
Do you want the long form birth certificate too?
Jesus F**cking Christ.
If you want to argue to that extent any organization that doesn't have a religious foundation by default can be considered to be an atheistic organization as long as religion isn't an aspect of their charity gathering.
So with this any charities that aren't through christian channels by default can be considered to be "atheistic" charities in that mind.
this is a ridiculous argument and you keep on drawing lines in the sand.

I don't want the long form birth certificate if it's faked the same way Obama's is. (No I'm not some ultra-conservative that had him pinned as a communist without evidence, I did the PDF trick and it worked)

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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-30 08:35:16

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Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

I just got off work and im going to bed, But you have to admit instead of atheist people and religious people arguing at each other over stupid beliefs, its better to list things both sides have done for humanity, maybe later I will make a Thread called Atheist accomplishments vs religious accomplishments. The rules will be, you can list 1 person atheist or religous, and then tell why his/her contribution is important. Goodnight

That sounds like a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE idea.

[+]

Siren.Inuyushi

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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-30 08:36:19

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Siren.Inuyushi said:

Bahamut.Nixak said:

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Iron Reaver Soul Stealer!

/debate off

lol, but ok I'll tell you the story on my name:

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

And there you go. Spoiled for people who don't really care.

/debate on

See it wasn't so hard! :D
You silly half demon you!

>_> *sigh* I guess I bear the burden of having people think I'm a huge Inuyasha fan because of my name. I thought the story would help that out lol. Oh well...

@Lynx - People associated with Groups do great things for the world. You can't really say "(Insert Religion) did X which made the nation of Y Z times better" or "(Insert Anit-Religous Group here) did A which made doing B so much easier than C and saved D number of lives!"

I dont know who all did what or who has contributed more, but the fact that any group has contributed anything substantial that has atleast saved a life or prevented harm deserves recognition. Be it that that person associates themselves to Atheism, Theism or Religious titles. Sadly to scoff off what individuals have done as "That's not a group, what has the group done" is just not very accurate my friend.

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By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-06-30 08:37:24

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Quote:

I don't want the long form birth certificate if it's faked the same way Obama's is. (No I'm not some ultra-conservative that had him pinned as a communist without evidence, I did the PDF trick and it worked)

What PDF trick? o.o;

Ramuh.Vinvv

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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-30 08:37:48

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

@Vinvv, im not talking about single person accomplishments, im talking about atheist as a whole, and also you can list all of that stuff atheist have accomplished, but religion has still accomplished alot more

Name me one thing religion has accomplished.

I see alot of religious charity groups that help out people(even though some are probably corrupt). I don't see any (or at least probably not that many) groups of atheist people helping out the needy.

Lets see
Robert Wilson, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates

Those are individual people, Talking about groups

Groups are comprised of multiple individuals?
Do you want foundations?
Do you want the long form birth certificate too?
Jesus F**cking Christ.
If you want to argue to that extent any organization that doesn't have a religious foundation by default can be considered to be an atheistic organization as long as religion isn't an aspect of their charity gathering.
So with this any charities that aren't through christian channels by default can be considered to be "atheistic" charities in that mind.
this is a ridiculous argument and you keep on drawing lines in the sand.

I don't want the long form birth certificate if it's faked the same way Obama's is. (No I'm not some ultra-conservative that had him pinned as a communist without evidence, I did the PDF trick and it worked)

too bad God doesn't have a long form birth certificate for you to mull over that could be faked...oh wait nvm he does.
If you think Obama is not a US citizen you're a nutjob regardless of what you say you are.

[+]

Ifrit.Daemun

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:41:39

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

@Vinvv, im not talking about single person accomplishments, im talking about atheist as a whole, and also you can list all of that stuff atheist have accomplished, but religion has still accomplished alot more

Name me one thing religion has accomplished.

I see alot of religious charity groups that help out people(even though some are probably corrupt). I don't see any (or at least probably not that many) groups of atheist people helping out the needy.

Lets see
Robert Wilson, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates

Bill Gates

also before it goes railed saying he's not an atheist, I say you be the judge lol:

Bill Gates has never explicitly made any statements about atheism, but according to an about.com article:

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Quote:

Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits.

Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?

Gates: I don’t. I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I’m a huge believer in. There’s a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.

Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you’d say you don’t know?

Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

It’s interesting that he thinks “religious principles are quite valid,” but he isn’t a believer in the Sermon on the Mount. Usually, when an irreligious non-Christian recognizes any validity to Christianity, it’s usually through some of the principles in the Sermon on the Mount. I wonder what Bill Gates had in mind?

Gates was profiled in a January 13, 1996 TIME magazine cover story. Here are some excerpts compiled by the Drudge Report:

“Isn’t there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?” interviewer Walter Isaacson asks Gates “His face suddenly becomes expressionless,” writes Isaacson, “his squeaky voice turns toneless, and he folds his arms across his belly and vigorously rocks back and forth in a mannerism that has become so mimicked at MICROSOFT that a meeting there can resemble a round table of ecstatic rabbis.”

“I don’t have any evidence on that,” answers Gates. “I don’t have any evidence of that.”bill gates

He later states, “Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.”

So, Bill Gates doesn’t go to church on a regular basis, doesn’t believe much in the specific elements of Christianity, doesn’t think there is any evidence for souls, doesn’t know that there is any god, and doesn’t consider religion very efficient. Bill Gates is definitely irreligious and is definitely agnostic. He may or may not be an atheist, but he is also definitely not the sort of person whom religious believers have in mind when they claim that religion is necessary for charitable work. Bill Gates is thus an effective demonstration that charity is possible without religion playing any role whatsoever.

The difference here, is he stands to have personal gain by being charitable.

Let's see all of the bonuses to charitable giving for Mr. Gates.

1. He lowers his taxes (a good thing when you have his level of income
2. He looks good in the public eye.
3. Because of 2, he stands to have an increase in sales as the public opinion of his company is a direct reflection of their opinion of him.

So, effectively, by charitable giving Bill has lowered expenses, and raised income. Yeah, I could see why religious or not, he would do this.

I for one believe it is quite possible for a non religious person to be charitable. My beef is their motivation. I don't think any non religious person can be charitable without the motivation of a personal gain. The true tenant of Christian giving is that it is supposed to be done with a humble heart, expecting to receive nothing from the act. Most professed Christians still give in the Gates sense, doing it for a reward of some kind. The actions of few do not reflect the actions of all, however.

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:44:24

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Siren.Inuyushi said:

Quote:

I don't want the long form birth certificate if it's faked the same way Obama's is. (No I'm not some ultra-conservative that had him pinned as a communist without evidence, I did the PDF trick and it worked)

What PDF trick? o.o;

And I've done it at work (only place I have that $1000 worth of software), it works.

Ramuh.Vinvv

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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-30 08:44:43

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

@Vinvv, im not talking about single person accomplishments, im talking about atheist as a whole, and also you can list all of that stuff atheist have accomplished, but religion has still accomplished alot more

Name me one thing religion has accomplished.

I see alot of religious charity groups that help out people(even though some are probably corrupt). I don't see any (or at least probably not that many) groups of atheist people helping out the needy.

Lets see
Robert Wilson, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates

Bill Gates

also before it goes railed saying he's not an atheist, I say you be the judge lol:

Bill Gates has never explicitly made any statements about atheism, but according to an about.com article:

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Quote:

Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits.

Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?

Gates: I don’t. I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I’m a huge believer in. There’s a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.

Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you’d say you don’t know?

Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

It’s interesting that he thinks “religious principles are quite valid,” but he isn’t a believer in the Sermon on the Mount. Usually, when an irreligious non-Christian recognizes any validity to Christianity, it’s usually through some of the principles in the Sermon on the Mount. I wonder what Bill Gates had in mind?

Gates was profiled in a January 13, 1996 TIME magazine cover story. Here are some excerpts compiled by the Drudge Report:

“Isn’t there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?” interviewer Walter Isaacson asks Gates “His face suddenly becomes expressionless,” writes Isaacson, “his squeaky voice turns toneless, and he folds his arms across his belly and vigorously rocks back and forth in a mannerism that has become so mimicked at MICROSOFT that a meeting there can resemble a round table of ecstatic rabbis.”

“I don’t have any evidence on that,” answers Gates. “I don’t have any evidence of that.”bill gates

He later states, “Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.”

So, Bill Gates doesn’t go to church on a regular basis, doesn’t believe much in the specific elements of Christianity, doesn’t think there is any evidence for souls, doesn’t know that there is any god, and doesn’t consider religion very efficient. Bill Gates is definitely irreligious and is definitely agnostic. He may or may not be an atheist, but he is also definitely not the sort of person whom religious believers have in mind when they claim that religion is necessary for charitable work. Bill Gates is thus an effective demonstration that charity is possible without religion playing any role whatsoever.

The difference here, is he stands to have personal gain by being charitable.

Let's see all of the bonuses to charitable giving for Mr. Gates.

1. He lowers his taxes (a good thing when you have his level of income
2. He looks good in the public eye.
3. Because of 2, he stands to have an increase in sales as the public opinion of his company is a direct reflection of their opinion of him.

So, effectively, by charitable giving Bill has lowered expenses, and raised income. Yeah, I could see why religious or not, he would do this.

I for one believe it is quite possible for a non religious person to be charitable. My beef is their motivation. I don't think any non religious person can be charitable without the motivation of a personal gain. The true tenant of Christian giving is that it is supposed to be done with a humble heart, expecting to receive nothing from the act. Most professed Christians still give in the Gates sense, doing it for a reward of some kind. The actions of few do not reflect the actions of all, however.

I don't trust your motivation either, the way I see it you just want to get to heaven and will do anything it takes to get you there.
You will always get reciprocation when helping another person Christian or Atheist.
What you believe doesn't matter when it comes to helping another person, it's what you do.
One can serve others while serving themselves completely fine and if everyone is happy there's nothing wrong with that.
Let's just put it this way:
Would you donate money to look good if you had that status?
Sure?
Would you do it solely to look good or to help people?
Obviously it's both since you're looking at the big guy in the sky.
Religious belief is not the source of morality, and saying that you are suspicious of their intentions is a human feeling, but I mean if you point your fingers right back at yourself and *** how you would do in that situation and your intentions align with his, you have to concede that religion doesn't really matter when it comes to helping people in need.
Judge lest ye be judged my friend!
Which, I want to say doesn't mean "don't judge people" as all the simple-minded folk think, but I believe you already know that.

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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-30 08:45:58

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Carbuncle.Lynxblade said:

@Vinvv, im not talking about single person accomplishments, im talking about atheist as a whole, and also you can list all of that stuff atheist have accomplished, but religion has still accomplished alot more

Name me one thing religion has accomplished.

I see alot of religious charity groups that help out people(even though some are probably corrupt). I don't see any (or at least probably not that many) groups of atheist people helping out the needy.

Lets see Robert Wilson, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates

Bill Gates

also before it goes railed saying he's not an atheist, I say you be the judge lol: Bill Gates has never explicitly made any statements about atheism, but according to an about.com article:

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Quote:

Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits. Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount? Gates: I don’t. I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I’m a huge believer in. There’s a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact. Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you’d say you don’t know? Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid. It’s interesting that he thinks “religious principles are quite valid,” but he isn’t a believer in the Sermon on the Mount. Usually, when an irreligious non-Christian recognizes any validity to Christianity, it’s usually through some of the principles in the Sermon on the Mount. I wonder what Bill Gates had in mind? Gates was profiled in a January 13, 1996 TIME magazine cover story. Here are some excerpts compiled by the Drudge Report: “Isn’t there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?” interviewer Walter Isaacson asks Gates “His face suddenly becomes expressionless,” writes Isaacson, “his squeaky voice turns toneless, and he folds his arms across his belly and vigorously rocks back and forth in a mannerism that has become so mimicked at MICROSOFT that a meeting there can resemble a round table of ecstatic rabbis.” “I don’t have any evidence on that,” answers Gates. “I don’t have any evidence of that.”bill gates He later states, “Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.” So, Bill Gates doesn’t go to church on a regular basis, doesn’t believe much in the specific elements of Christianity, doesn’t think there is any evidence for souls, doesn’t know that there is any god, and doesn’t consider religion very efficient. Bill Gates is definitely irreligious and is definitely agnostic. He may or may not be an atheist, but he is also definitely not the sort of person whom religious believers have in mind when they claim that religion is necessary for charitable work. Bill Gates is thus an effective demonstration that charity is possible without religion playing any role whatsoever.

The difference here, is he stands to have personal gain by being charitable. Let's see all of the bonuses to charitable giving for Mr. Gates. 1. He lowers his taxes (a good thing when you have his level of income 2. He looks good in the public eye. 3. Because of 2, he stands to have an increase in sales as the public opinion of his company is a direct reflection of their opinion of him. So, effectively, by charitable giving Bill has lowered expenses, and raised income. Yeah, I could see why religious or not, he would do this. I for one believe it is quite possible for a non religious person to be charitable. My beef is their motivation. I don't think any non religious person can be charitable without the motivation of a personal gain. The true tenant of Christian giving is that it is supposed to be done with a humble heart, expecting to receive nothing from the act. Most professed Christians still give in the Gates sense, doing it for a reward of some kind. The actions of few do not reflect the actions of all, however.

Atheists also aren't capable of love.

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:47:55

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

too bad God doesn't have a long form birth certificate for you to mull over that could be faked...oh wait nvm he does.
If you think Obama is not a US citizen you're a nutjob regardless of what you say you are.

I don't know whether he is or isn't, I'm just saying the evidence they've put forward thus far is no proof that he is.

I do believe he had an agenda before getting into office of breaking the backbone of this country to stand to make a profit. Thus far it's worked. It's also a day late and a dollar short that he realized America isn't bullet proof and his 'throw money at problems' ideals are faltering. I don't believe he willed our economy to do what it did, I just think his lack of business sense put us in the predicament we currently are in. Couple that with two major market busts ill timed and here we are.

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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-30 08:50:33

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No.

[+]

Ramuh.Vinvv

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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-30 08:50:49

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

too bad God doesn't have a long form birth certificate for you to mull over that could be faked...oh wait nvm he does.
If you think Obama is not a US citizen you're a nutjob regardless of what you say you are.

I don't know whether he is or isn't, I'm just saying the evidence they've put forward thus far is no proof that he is.

I do believe he had an agenda before getting into office of breaking the backbone of this country to stand to make a profit. Thus far it's worked. It's also a day late and a dollar short that he realized America isn't bullet proof and his 'throw money at problems' ideals are faltering. I don't believe he willed our economy to do what it did, I just think his lack of business sense put us in the predicament we currently are in. Couple that with two major market busts ill timed and here we are.

Regardless what he does you aren't going to believe him, you've already been prepared not to.
It's exactly the same as my being an atheist, except you are disbelieving a person that actually exists in this day and time.
He's as much of an US Citizen in terms of identification if not more so as I am and I am satisfied with that.
But just like atheism, if something magical occurs I may be inclined to change my opinion of it.

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:53:33

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

I don't trust your motivation either, the way I see it you just want to get to heaven and will do anything it takes to get you there.
You will always get reciprocation when helping another person Christian or Atheist.
What you believe doesn't matter when it comes to helping another person, it's what you do.
One can serve others while serving themselves completely fine and if everyone is happy there's nothing wrong with that.
Let's just put it this way:
Would you donate money to look good if you had that status?
Sure?
Would you do it solely to look good or to help people?
Obviously it's both since you're looking at the big guy in the sky.
Religious belief is not the source of morality, and saying that you are suspicious of their intentions is a human feeling, but I mean if you point your fingers right back at yourself and *** how you would do in that situation and your intentions align with his, you have to concede that religion doesn't really matter when it comes to helping people in need.

The beauty is, I don't care if you trust my motivation or not. I know why I give. It isn't 'to get into heaven', I know I've got that ticket whether I give or not. Grace, not action. That's where 90% of Christians get it wrong. They think religion is a book for living morally, which it is. But faith is beyond religion in knowing you're a screw up, and accepting that fact. You do the best you can just because, to try to help others.

I already give, enough that I'm pushed into watching my own spending. I don't do it to look good, I don't do it to earn freebies, I do it to help others. No one knows how much I give, when I give or to all the places I give. My wife doesn't even really know all of the charities and people I give to. Nor I of her. The point is that we do, and do so with no expectation for reward.

You are right, religion doesn't have anything to do with helping people in need. Faith, however, determines the motivation behind it.

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:54:37

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Shiva.Flionheart said:

No.

I think your keyboard is broken. About the last 15 posts I've seen from you has been this. You aren't non conformist or edgy for continuing to put this, you just prove you are unable to make a clear, educated post.

[+]

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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-30 08:55:25

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

too bad God doesn't have a long form birth certificate for you to mull over that could be faked...oh wait nvm he does. If you think Obama is not a US citizen you're a nutjob regardless of what you say you are.

I don't know whether he is or isn't, I'm just saying the evidence they've put forward thus far is no proof that he is. I do believe he had an agenda before getting into office of breaking the backbone of this country to stand to make a profit. Thus far it's worked. It's also a day late and a dollar short that he realized America isn't bullet proof and his 'throw money at problems' ideals are faltering. I don't believe he willed our economy to do what it did, I just think his lack of business sense put us in the predicament we currently are in. Couple that with two major market busts ill timed and here we are.

Regardless what he does you aren't going to believe him, you've already been prepared not to. It's exactly the same as my being an atheist, except you are disbelieving a person that actually exists in this day and time. He's as much of an US Citizen in terms of identification if not more so as I am and I am satisfied with that. But just like atheism, if something magical occurs I may be inclined to change my opinion of it.

Reasonable doubt on both sides. One disbelieves someone is a citizen of some country since tangible evidence doesn't support it very well, the other doesn't believe in God for similar reasons.

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 08:56:37

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

too bad God doesn't have a long form birth certificate for you to mull over that could be faked...oh wait nvm he does.
If you think Obama is not a US citizen you're a nutjob regardless of what you say you are.

I don't know whether he is or isn't, I'm just saying the evidence they've put forward thus far is no proof that he is.

I do believe he had an agenda before getting into office of breaking the backbone of this country to stand to make a profit. Thus far it's worked. It's also a day late and a dollar short that he realized America isn't bullet proof and his 'throw money at problems' ideals are faltering. I don't believe he willed our economy to do what it did, I just think his lack of business sense put us in the predicament we currently are in. Couple that with two major market busts ill timed and here we are.

Regardless what he does you aren't going to believe him, you've already been prepared not to.
It's exactly the same as my being an atheist, except you are disbelieving a person that actually exists in this day and time.
He's as much of an US Citizen in terms of identification if not more so as I am and I am satisfied with that.
But just like atheism, if something magical occurs I may be inclined to change my opinion of it.

Never said I didn't believe he existed, and I'm pretty sure I said I know not whether he is or isn't. The same could be said of God. I have no proof He exists or not, and do not know for sure one way or another. Because of my experiences and feelings throughout my lifetime though, I believe that He does.

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By Shiva.Nikolce 2011-06-30 08:57:26

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Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said:

Shiva.Nikolce said:

zahrah said:

I've already been insulted on here for saying that I would like to have my children baptized.

I christened my kids just to cover my *** in unlikely event that it's actually a prerequisite to get into a heaven I don't believe exists.

Pascal! Problem is an all knowing deity would know you just did it to cover your ***. Or, if you die and apparently some obscure, Christian hating religion had it right where the god eats you for baptizing the kid. There's no winning. Way too many variables @.@

Sure there is, just ask Charlie Sheen.

I christened my kids without their knowledge or consent so they are totally in the clear should some wrathfull diety be angered by my actions he/she/it will just have to take it up with me.

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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-30 08:58:56

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Shiva.Flionheart said:

No.

I think your keyboard is broken. About the last 15 posts I've seen from you has been this. You aren't non conformist or edgy for continuing to put this, you just prove you are unable to make a clear, educated post.

Just no.

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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-30 09:02:35

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Ramuh.Vinvv said:

I don't trust your motivation either, the way I see it you just want to get to heaven and will do anything it takes to get you there.
You will always get reciprocation when helping another person Christian or Atheist.
What you believe doesn't matter when it comes to helping another person, it's what you do.
One can serve others while serving themselves completely fine and if everyone is happy there's nothing wrong with that.
Let's just put it this way:
Would you donate money to look good if you had that status?
Sure?
Would you do it solely to look good or to help people?
Obviously it's both since you're looking at the big guy in the sky.
Religious belief is not the source of morality, and saying that you are suspicious of their intentions is a human feeling, but I mean if you point your fingers right back at yourself and *** how you would do in that situation and your intentions align with his, you have to concede that religion doesn't really matter when it comes to helping people in need.

The beauty is, I don't care if you trust my motivation or not. I know why I give. It isn't 'to get into heaven', I know I've got that ticket whether I give or not. Grace, not action. That's where 90% of Christians get it wrong. They think religion is a book for living morally, which it is. But faith is beyond religion in knowing you're a screw up, and accepting that fact. You do the best you can just because, to try to help others.

I already give, enough that I'm pushed into watching my own spending. I don't do it to look good, I don't do it to earn freebies, I do it to help others. No one knows how much I give, when I give or to all the places I give. My wife doesn't even really know all of the charities and people I give to. Nor I of her. The point is that we do, and do so with no expectation for reward.

You are right, religion doesn't have anything to do with helping people in need. Faith, however, determines the motivation behind it.

What is your motivation to help people?
Because God says so?
What is your motivation to do what God says?
Because you believe him.
Can you give a short reply as to why you are charitable?
If possible not some long paragraph.

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By Shiva.Xellith 2011-06-30 09:02:39

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Ifrit.Daemun said:

Never said I didn't believe he existed, and I'm pretty sure I said I know not whether he is or isn't. The same could be said of God. I have no proof He exists or not, and do not know for sure one way or another. Because of my experiences and feelings throughout my lifetime though, I believe that He does.

what experiences? you saw an angel? that's crazy talk.

Present evidence that's demonstrable or its not going to get anywhere. If you present an argument that cant pass the basic scientific method then its not going to hold any water. Believe it as much as you want. But belief does not equal truth.

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By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-06-30 09:04:21

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I love you guys.

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By BorealisV2 2011-06-30 09:04:44

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Just dance.

[+]

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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-30 09:05:30

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Shiva.Xellith said:

Ifrit.Daemun said:

Never said I didn't believe he existed, and I'm pretty sure I said I know not whether he is or isn't. The same could be said of God. I have no proof He exists or not, and do not know for sure one way or another. Because of my experiences and feelings throughout my lifetime though, I believe that He does.

what experiences? you saw an angel? that's crazy talk. Present evidence that's demonstrable or its not going to get anywhere. If you present an argument that cant pass the basic scientific method then its not going to hold any water. Believe it as much as you want. But belief does not equal truth.

Trolling or not reading, not sure.

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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2011-06-30 09:16:19

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Oh dear, I can't leave this thread to sleep without ya'll deviating into a discussion on Obama's birth certificate?

:D

After backreading a couple of pages' worth of replies ...

I normally would not "white knight" for Vinvv, but .. Lynxblade, you got squashed ... badly.

@ Daemun: see I'm far more reasonable than I bet you gave me credit for previously. My passionate side just probably usually gets magnified by forums/text format, since one can't see how calmly and stoically I typically am when writing on here ...

Sylph.Systematicchaos said:

Atheists also aren't capable of love.

Wait, what? You being serious here?
I'm guessing you didn't view the video in the OP.
Try starting around 5:50 in the video, if you can't be bothered to watch the whole thing.

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By Shiva.Xellith 2011-06-30 09:17:28

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Sylph.Systematicchaos said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Ifrit.Daemun said:

Never said I didn't believe he existed, and I'm pretty sure I said I know not whether he is or isn't. The same could be said of God. I have no proof He exists or not, and do not know for sure one way or another. Because of my experiences and feelings throughout my lifetime though, I believe that He does.

what experiences? you saw an angel? that's crazy talk. Present evidence that's demonstrable or its not going to get anywhere. If you present an argument that cant pass the basic scientific method then its not going to hold any water. Believe it as much as you want. But belief does not equal truth.

Trolling or not reading, not sure.

Sylph.Systematicchaos

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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-30 09:20:20

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Shiva.Xellith said:

Sylph.Systematicchaos said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Ifrit.Daemun said:

Never said I didn't believe he existed, and I'm pretty sure I said I know not whether he is or isn't. The same could be said of God. I have no proof He exists or not, and do not know for sure one way or another. Because of my experiences and feelings throughout my lifetime though, I believe that He does.

what experiences? you saw an angel? that's crazy talk. Present evidence that's demonstrable or its not going to get anywhere. If you present an argument that cant pass the basic scientific method then its not going to hold any water. Believe it as much as you want. But belief does not equal truth.

Trolling or not reading, not sure.

You're completely right.

ftfy

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By Shiva.Xellith 2011-06-30 09:22:24

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Sylph.Systematicchaos said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Sylph.Systematicchaos said:

Shiva.Xellith said:

Ifrit.Daemun said:

Never said I didn't believe he existed, and I'm pretty sure I said I know not whether he is or isn't. The same could be said of God. I have no proof He exists or not, and do not know for sure one way or another. Because of my experiences and feelings throughout my lifetime though, I believe that He does.

what experiences? you saw an angel? that's crazy talk. Present evidence that's demonstrable or its not going to get anywhere. If you present an argument that cant pass the basic scientific method then its not going to hold any water. Believe it as much as you want. But belief does not equal truth.

Trolling or not reading, not sure.

I cant read

ftfy

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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-30 09:23:31

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Ramuh.Vinvv said:

What is your motivation to help people?
Because God says so?
What is your motivation to do what God says?
Because you believe him.
Can you give a short reply as to why you are charitable?
If possible not some long paragraph.

I believe I can do this concisely.

I help people because my heart bleeds for them. I want to help others because I feel as though I have been blessed more so than them. I want to make it equal. (Long discussion over giving vs. redistribution here if you ever want to have)

It is because of my interpretation of the Bible, and my self conscious beliefs, that I do this with no intention of reward. (In other words I give in ways that I can't be repaid, or that no one knows so that I can't be rewarded in any way.)

@Elanabelle: I didn't give you near as much credit as I should have. I sincerely apologize. I actually look forward to debating (or agreeing with) you in the future.

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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-30 09:23:58

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Bismarck.Elanabelle said:

Oh dear, I can't leave this thread to sleep without ya'll deviating into a discussion on Obama's birth certificate? :D After backreading a couple of pages' worth of replies ... I normally would not "white knight" for Vinvv, but .. Lynxblade, you got squashed ... badly. @ Daemun: see I'm far more reasonable than I bet you gave me credit for previously. My passionate side just probably usually gets magnified by forums/text format, since one can't see how calmly and stoically I typically am when writing on here ...

Sylph.Systematicchaos said:

Atheists also aren't capable of love.

Wait, what? You being serious here? I'm guessing you didn't view the video in the OP. Try starting around 5:50 in the video, if you can't be bothered to watch the whole thing.

I'll check it out in a bit, perhaps the video suggests people actually believe that. Tried to find one without text so it was less insulting, and one that was smaller, but:

No I don't actually think that, but it was equally ridiculous at what I quoted when I said it, which was my point.

Edit: Also I fkin love that image.

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"Atheist Life Vs. Religious Life" [video]