Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.
Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
With the new adeventurer rewards I am wondering what people think is a more useful choice. Nocturnus helm or mail?
Helm by a long shot.
Our magic damage mitigation is already outrageous, and you're likely to get more utility out of any other body piece while in your DT/MDT sets (ilvl DT, Magic evasion, etc).
The helm however offers more opportunities for physical damage absorption after you've reached the 50% PDT cap (or 68% with Burtgang).
Though, I will admit, as high as the defense/mitigation properties on some of these ilvl helms are getting, it may start to lose its superiority.
Our magic damage mitigation is already outrageous, and you're likely to get more utility out of any other body piece while in your DT/MDT sets (ilvl DT, Magic evasion, etc).
The helm however offers more opportunities for physical damage absorption after you've reached the 50% PDT cap (or 68% with Burtgang).
Though, I will admit, as high as the defense/mitigation properties on some of these ilvl helms are getting, it may start to lose its superiority.
Yeah, I can't see head actually being good still. Would love for some math to prove me wrong though.
Except the mail is even more superfluous.
If you're tanking something that does magic and melee, you're dropping a lot of melee damage mitigation by swapping to the Nocturnus Mail.
If you're in a rare situation of JUST magic damage, then it "may" provide you with more overall magic damage mitigation than other alternatives.
Remember that all the iLvL armor has stat vomit, and most magic based spells/WSs have some type of stat comparison (target and caster intelligence check for example).
So the mail isn't worthwhile, while the helm offers superior (at least for now) melee damage mitigation.
Note: If your defense is low enough, then the other ilvl helms will most likely win out since their defense will play a larger damage mitigation role.
So depending on the situation, both pieces may be impractical.
If you're tanking something that does magic and melee, you're dropping a lot of melee damage mitigation by swapping to the Nocturnus Mail.
If you're in a rare situation of JUST magic damage, then it "may" provide you with more overall magic damage mitigation than other alternatives.
Remember that all the iLvL armor has stat vomit, and most magic based spells/WSs have some type of stat comparison (target and caster intelligence check for example).
So the mail isn't worthwhile, while the helm offers superior (at least for now) melee damage mitigation.
Note: If your defense is low enough, then the other ilvl helms will most likely win out since their defense will play a larger damage mitigation role.
So depending on the situation, both pieces may be impractical.
I'd just go with both suck, use mail when the situation calls if you care enough. If the helm is providing better mitigation than an ilvl helm, then you don't need it anyways.
You typically stay in your pdt set, whereas mdt is for a single nuke. A higher defense helm such as yaoyotl, even if it is the same damage reduced average compared to nocturnus, will be the better choice. nocturnus will always be useful, since unless magic evasion gets you off the floor, won't even do anything. and the defense is less of an issue compared to the helm
Ok, so you just ignored my statement about loss of melee physical damage resistance during your "one spell swap." Unless your timing is perfect, you're going to often times take SOME physical damage before you get back into your idle set, which negates any benefit of the Nocturnus mail.
Not to mention what I stated about magic spell d-stat comparison offsetting the benefit to begin with.
@Drama: I'm not sure what you're saying: "If the helm is providing better mitigation than an ilvl helm, then you don't need it anyways" - care to elaborate? I think I'm misunderstanding you. In situations where you're not trying to melee (just supertank for instance), maximum physical damage resistance over time is superior.
Not to mention what I stated about magic spell d-stat comparison offsetting the benefit to begin with.
@Drama: I'm not sure what you're saying: "If the helm is providing better mitigation than an ilvl helm, then you don't need it anyways" - care to elaborate? I think I'm misunderstanding you. In situations where you're not trying to melee (just supertank for instance), maximum physical damage resistance over time is superior.
I'm saying that you're likely going to be taking little enough damage to where you'd be better off just using offensive stats. Also on anything that actually has the ability to put you in danger of being killed quickly, you'd want the maximum reduction possible rather than the best mitigation over time.
I see what you're saying. I'd still put the Nocturnus Helm in my supertanking/crowd control -DT set, in situations where DDing isn't relevant.
I can't think of a single situation where Nocturnus mail would be superior to any other alternative.
I can't think of a single situation where Nocturnus mail would be superior to any other alternative.
you lose less defense going from cizin > nocturnus mail than you do going from yaoyotl > nocturnus helm. and less vit loss. all the good mdt pieces can be used for both anyways. neck, rings, back will cap you, wear nocturnus, fill in defense/pdt elsewhere
Ok you're missing the point.
When talking about the MAGIC damage taken, the swap from Cizin to Nocturnus mail will NOT provide you ANY benefit. It won't give you less magic damage taken over time. It won't give you less melee damage taken over time.
The small % of magic absorbed by Nocturnus mail is negated by the Magic evasion, stat vomit, and melee damage mitigation properties of Cizin (or other ilvl gear).
This isn't the same analysis as with the helm, because we're only discussing melee damage mitigation properties of the helm, which HAS (rare) times when it actually IS the best in slot for pure PDT.
Nocturnus mail has no time where it is superior.
I realize you probably already got your mail from the event and this is frustrating, but in the end both pieces are largely outclassed, so it doesn't matter.
When talking about the MAGIC damage taken, the swap from Cizin to Nocturnus mail will NOT provide you ANY benefit. It won't give you less magic damage taken over time. It won't give you less melee damage taken over time.
The small % of magic absorbed by Nocturnus mail is negated by the Magic evasion, stat vomit, and melee damage mitigation properties of Cizin (or other ilvl gear).
This isn't the same analysis as with the helm, because we're only discussing melee damage mitigation properties of the helm, which HAS (rare) times when it actually IS the best in slot for pure PDT.
Nocturnus mail has no time where it is superior.
I realize you probably already got your mail from the event and this is frustrating, but in the end both pieces are largely outclassed, so it doesn't matter.
ItemSet 316905
will cap mdt and pdt if you're worried about taking physical hits after a nuke, then you swap back to your other pdt body.
if you're full timing pdt, yaoyotl is better than nocturnus. if you're taking just one hit, yaoyotl is better than nocturnus. if you're worried about magic evasion doing ***anyways, you probably need barspells and carol.
and i have neither, and wouldn't carry neither. but mail has uses, helm doesn't.
will cap mdt and pdt if you're worried about taking physical hits after a nuke, then you swap back to your other pdt body.
if you're full timing pdt, yaoyotl is better than nocturnus. if you're taking just one hit, yaoyotl is better than nocturnus. if you're worried about magic evasion doing ***anyways, you probably need barspells and carol.
and i have neither, and wouldn't carry neither. but mail has uses, helm doesn't.
Except, as stated, you'd still take less magic damage using another ilvl body because of d-stat comparison and other benefits (and higher defense), so there is no point in using the body. You're also sacrificing Shadow Ring, which has a higher proc rate for magic damage mitigation.
The mail has NO use in any paladin set with current gear.
The mail has NO use in any paladin set with current gear.
i've read your statement, that doesn't make it correct. put the shadow ring on and take slightly more physical damage if you can't hit a macro fast enough.
helm is never worth it, body is
helm is never worth it, body is
Oh ok, well repeating yourself while ignoring the facts was really convincing.
1. You haven't overcome the problem of your mail NOT providing more magic reduction than ilvl gear due to d-stat comparison, magic evasion, and higher defensive properties.
2. Your "capped pdt/mdt set" loses shadow ring and STILL takes more magic damage than just using an ilvl piece. Hell, use an ilvl body and just use the magic damage absorption cape if you REALLY want to absorb something at the cost of other stats.
3. The helm has situations where it actually will provide less DoT, while the mail does not.
You're wrong, go away.
1. You haven't overcome the problem of your mail NOT providing more magic reduction than ilvl gear due to d-stat comparison, magic evasion, and higher defensive properties.
2. Your "capped pdt/mdt set" loses shadow ring and STILL takes more magic damage than just using an ilvl piece. Hell, use an ilvl body and just use the magic damage absorption cape if you REALLY want to absorb something at the cost of other stats.
3. The helm has situations where it actually will provide less DoT, while the mail does not.
You're wrong, go away.
prove all of that, then. if mail is worthless, then helm is even worse off.
You're the one making the dumb *** statement that is clearly debunked by even trivial knowledge of the game, so you "prove it."
I stated specific situations where the helm was superior. You can't name one situation or gear set where your mail is useful.
I stated specific situations where the helm was superior. You can't name one situation or gear set where your mail is useful.
I'll break it down for you then, since you're buttdevastated you're wrong
macro faster
why are you taking both? macro faster
name one where damage reduction actually
mattersany nuke where you aren't off the magic evasion floor
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
If you're tanking something that does magic and melee, you're dropping a lot of melee damage mitigation by swapping to the Nocturnus Mail.
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
The small % of magic absorbed by Nocturnus mail is negated by the Magic evasion, stat vomit, and melee damage mitigation properties of Cizin (or other ilvl gear).
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
This isn't the same analysis as with the helm, because we're only discussing melee damage mitigation properties of the helm, which HAS (rare) times when it actually IS the best in slot for pure PDT.
matters
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Nocturnus mail has no time where it is superior.
1. Even if you "macro faster" or use spellcast auto-exec, you will inevitably take some other physical damage between all your magic swaps. Claiming otherwise makes me think you don't play this game, or at least Pld.
2. You're an idiot and are still missing the point. Do you not know how magic spell damage is calculated?
You're also unable to provide a set where you're not sacrificing other slots (shadow ring or uncapped PDT) to force in your mail.
3. You're asking me to name situations where damage reduction actually matters? What the *** do you think this discussion is about you bumbling moron?
It's like you're in an argument against Weapon Skill damage and then when you find out you're wrong, you go "well WS damage really doesn't matter".
4. Nocturnus mail is STILL not superior when you're off the magic evasion floor because of d-stat comparison and the sacrifice you have to make in other slots (not to mention to above discussed sacrifices).
There is no situation where Nocturnus mail is useful.
2. You're an idiot and are still missing the point. Do you not know how magic spell damage is calculated?
You're also unable to provide a set where you're not sacrificing other slots (shadow ring or uncapped PDT) to force in your mail.
3. You're asking me to name situations where damage reduction actually matters? What the *** do you think this discussion is about you bumbling moron?
It's like you're in an argument against Weapon Skill damage and then when you find out you're wrong, you go "well WS damage really doesn't matter".
4. Nocturnus mail is STILL not superior when you're off the magic evasion floor because of d-stat comparison and the sacrifice you have to make in other slots (not to mention to above discussed sacrifices).
There is no situation where Nocturnus mail is useful.
Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
This is honestly getting nowhere.
and no, i don't play pld because it's a useless job
why for you guys fight? drink some coca cola so we can all sing in perfect harmony!
damage reduction is irrelevant
minimum allotted reaction time before death is the stat that matters
helm is ***because it's increasing your death risk the 95% of the time it doesn't proc and nobody cares about saving mp the 5% of the time it does
consistancy >
minimum allotted reaction time before death is the stat that matters
helm is ***because it's increasing your death risk the 95% of the time it doesn't proc and nobody cares about saving mp the 5% of the time it does
consistancy >
[+]
Except helm is useful in situations where single hits won't risk death and your overall DT average matters (supertanking).
The mail has no such uses or relevance in today's game. There is no useful situation for the mail.
The mail has no such uses or relevance in today's game. There is no useful situation for the mail.
So with the GearSwap (the spellcast replacement available now) any one who really knows LUA and PLD well want to be responsible for a new centralized "Master Pld" file - would be good to sticky to this guide and in time save the XI community all using different ***.
now to go find time to play with my 119 Excal ;;
now to go find time to play with my 119 Excal ;;
Man I didn't think my question would cause so much trouble D: I still dunno which to pick either, haha.
Grats on 119 Excal. Now that I'm done Aegis I need to start saving for that.
Grats on 119 Excal. Now that I'm done Aegis I need to start saving for that.
Quetzalcoatl.Tanag said: »
Man I didn't think my question would cause so much trouble D: I still dunno which to pick either, haha.
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