Tachi Fudo

Ah, so that only aplies to Masamune then since WoE weaps don't get aftermath and most dmg comes from their WS', as per usual!?

Still a straight 14.8% increase in ws frequency and overall damage, I wouldn't swap that out.

No applies to both because your dot sky rockets. Just most noticeable with aftermath thats why I said that first. >.<

Doesn't really matter, even without a crit WS it's still a 30% bonus to about 75% of their melee dot.

Hm, still not sure I do understand it.. So you are saying that it's better to gimp your WS dmg where the split is AT LEAST 40/60 if not 30/70 (melee/WS) for SAM?
Not trying to be a smart-*** or anything but I'm used to do it the other way around since you do WS more often and do WAY MORE dmg with your WS' than you ever would do with melee swings. Given that you have a competent SAM anyway.

You still have more melee swings than WS total, so a straight +30% dmg to a majority of them will beat a WS only boost (which would unlikely be as high as 30%)

RR/Apoc for me are dead certain choices, aftermath or not. The 3rd choice is just situational.

I'm not familiar with the actual numbers but I think it was like 40% for 200% TP and 60% for 300% added to your WS dmg.
and 30% of 30-40% isn't actually that much.
Like I said though, given you have a competent SAM that only needs like 2-3 swings to get 100% with (DA/TA/Meditate/Regain and whatnot).

It's still hard for me to believe that DoT is the way to go on SAM, unless you never WS or have mob incoming all the time and have no phase where you are not swinging your GK.

Just sounds really odd to me but maybe I'll try it out sometime.

Interesting, good info.


In the above scenario, RR has no place though.

Har du tenkt på å lage Almace? hadde rocka for din BLU!

Jobber med saken :p

I work it out around 22% increase to your overall DMG, I'd advise against holding TP to 200+.

Would like to point out even with ODD on my Dot my WS damage is still sitting around 70% overall damage.

Alright, it will stay on! You doing vere yet?


Yeah RR affecs dots alot. Also those 1-1.2k aftermath hits are pretty sweet!

The only thing cooler then a 1.2k aftermath is a 6k fudo. Good luck getting that with RR. ;p

Yup, though the servers going down cut my Chloris farming short, almost done w/ that part. How's Ifrit? Would've lol'd if we got merged instead.

I came to +22% overall DMG using a 30:70 ratio, it'd be pretty hard to top that on WS alone after diminished returns.

Those were with unkai+2 hands+sekka and 300 TP and TA proc?

Had a few of those during exp when I came back from afk/and or had to hold back TP for building lights etc.

Well technically I didn't hit 6k, my highest was 5892, and I had a few in 5800-range, using RR/SB/Apoc.
If you hit 6k Fudo @100 TPish I'd /kneel to that.

Ifrit is awesome. Doing everything I want to do - whenever I want to do it!

Planning on doing Vere myself next since I use MNK so much in Abyssea anyways.

Because Ifrit aren't overcrowded with players on say Gukumatz camps, I was able to do Almace in 4 days! Yeah this merger will effectively put a stopper for stuff like that. Gonna miss Ifrit for sure.

Only 9% of your total damage will be increased by crit using RR. 15% TA eats that for breakfast.

I do miss the low population lol, even things like Asanbosam were ridic hard to claim on Bahamut at first. Up sides is lots of cool people.
Thinking of Ochain next myself, just so I can have an Aegis macro:3

unkai+2 hands+sekka and 300 TP and TA proc + RCB and using the right atma ;p My ls members are always trying to out do each others WS damage so yeah its not practical but a lot of fun.

Lol gear swap Aegis would be funny kinda.. Atleast you can flash both your shields.

From a PLD perspective - Ochain rocks!

I was sceptical to it before it was revealed it had about 90% blockrate.

Doing Ochain aswell, but not pushing for it much till I got vere 85 done.

Going /war with Almace and Ochain on Tiamat would be pretty beastly (Yeah i still do tia on occasions)

How is 30% of 30% 22% added to overall dmg when it ONLY adds dmg to DPS and not anything to WS dmg? Furthermore, I was refering to SB atma for the 200%+ TP, as you will always WS with more than 200% using SB.

That being said, I don't really see RR beating any of the 3 atmas, generally. Apoc > RR for TP and WS. SB > RR for WS which is the main source of dmg for SAM. VV > RR for TP if it helps you to get a lower x-hit build.

So which of the three would one switch out in order to get magically increased overall dmg by using RR? This is not meant sarcastically, I honestly do try to understand it. ><

EDIT: For WoE GK, anyway. Aftermath might be a different story, maybe.

lol I do miss PLD, been on it like 3 times since I moved.

Stick with what you are doing, people eyeballing 1.2k aftermath every 15min thinking this adds huge numbers to your overall damage.

ill help i love running the IC all over the zone with gaiters lol XD

this might be bullsh!t but i seen somewhere the ODD increases with the level 90 version of the emp.
(based on a post i seen, i myself am still 85 version)

aftermath lvl-1 = 30%
aftermath lvl-2 = 40%
aftermath lvl-3 = 50%

think it was on a war threat unsure

but yeh might makes thinks interesting not really for sam but, for other jobs like nin or mnk ^^

9% is ridiculously low

Using Masamune (90) and capped pdif for ease

114D+20fSTR=134*2.2 is 294 regular hit
134*3.0 is 402 so a 36.7% difference for normal crit

552 crit with RR, so a 77.5% increase

So it's

(0.29*1.367*0.3)/(0.59*1.775*0.3)

11.8/31.4*100 = 37.5% increase in overall damage from RR.

That's of course assuming you were capping dDEX before RR, capping accuracy/attack etc. If not then the gains are higher, similarly for a SAM w/o Fudo, since the melee/WS ratio will shift.

(Raen's formula)

I have to admit, I don't understand this math and I don't know what's it saying or where you get all these numbers from, nor what they are to express. c.c
So what I still don't get is that if you increase your melee dmg, which is 30% more crits and 30% more dmg of those crits, how does this end up increasing your overall dmg that much (compared to other options) that you get a percentage that high?
Certainly, it has to increase your overall dmg, compared to nothing though. Meaning, if you would use RR or no atma at all.
But seeing that certain atmas increase your dmg in certain ways, that are so obvious, it's hard to believe that boosting a part of a SAM's TP-gain, which has never been of much relevance, has that much of an impact on overall dmg.
Like SB does (please help me out with actual numbers) with a 100% TP boost, which I believed was at least 40% already to your WS dmg, which is furthermore the majority of most 2handed DD's dmg.
Like Apoc, which adds 15% TA to your TP-phase, as well as your WS' and therefore not only increase frequency but also WS dmg once more.
Like VV, which adds WS mod, DA (not really worth to mention but better than nothing) and regain, which once more boosts your frequency (due to lower x-hit build) and also slightly the WS-dmg (due to mods and occ DA).
So those all boost your dmg significantly and also help with more constant dmg.

Maybe numbers will help me out more, to understand what RR is supposed to be capable of.
The way I see it, is that RR gives you a boost to your melee phase, your 1-5 swings between your WS', making them hit for like 500 or something? So that would mean for me, if I did indeed suck badly and need 5 hits until I can WS, every 1-2 hits might or might not be crits.
During that phase I might do like 1.2-1.8 dmg. Maybe more if like every hit crits. Hell, even if every hit crits for 500ish each, it would be 2.5k dmg.
Now, that would be not bad IF all hits crit and since you dropped other good atmas for RR, your WS dmg might suck a little as well, leaving you at around 1-2k probably.
In that case, yea, RR might, most likely, win.

On the other hand, when you have proper atmas, you will still be doing like 1k in 5 hit and put out 1.8-4.5k dmg during WS' (obviously, always depends on mobs and buffs but thats normal dmg for exp mobs).

In any case, more melee hits between WS' would favor RR (which shouldn't be the case for SAMs though with sekkanoki/meditate/proper x-hit build/regain atma).
I don't know, since aby came out, having a 5-hit build is nothing special anymore, which honestly makes me doubt that the phase between WS' has gotten that much more important for dmg.

But again, for aftermath it might be different, where you always have to take into account that you have to ws with high TP beforehand to make it last longer = waste of TP and have to melee more to take advantage of that effect = waste of TP.

I'm only talking about what I know and what I've experienced on SAM a few years and also some in abyssea, so don't judge me if I'm wrong.
If the maths say VV/SB/Apoc are garbage and RR is the new way to go, that's fine. I would like to experience that (with a WoE GK).
Let me know which of the atma, of the ones I would use, I would have to ditch then. =o