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Abyssea - Casual or hardcore ?
 Leviathan.Pimpchan
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-07-23 06:48:15
Sylph.Lotusbluete said:
Well, I only play 1-2 hours per day, if i play at all.
salvage is 1h40, so less than abyssea exp runs, much less
Quote:
I'm quite happy about the fact that I can get 1-2 levels during that time when i exp in abyssea, if its a good ally.
You will not get 2 levels, not even one in 1 or 2 hours of playing because you first have to build your alliance (yes evrything in abyssea is done in large alliance) and then grind bad exp for 2 hours untill the good exp actually comes. It's not better than duoing or trying VT mobs in Aht Urgan (15k/h).
Quote:
oh, and for salvage and the time issue: did you count all the assault runs you had to do in order to get APs too? I guess not :3
Golden savage, suck less.
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By Unicorn.Cactustim 2010-07-23 06:49:08
Serveur: Unicorn
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By Unicorn.Cactustim 2010-07-23 06:51:11
oh my bad, thought this was the thread for pics of people ****ing themselves
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Serveur: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-07-23 06:52:19
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Sylph.Lotusbluete said:
Well, I only play 1-2 hours per day, if i play at all.
salvage is 1h40, so less than abyssea exp runs, much less
Quote:
I'm quite happy about the fact that I can get 1-2 levels during that time when i exp in abyssea, if its a good ally.
You will not get 2 levels, not even one in 1 or 2 hours of playing because you first have to build your alliance ( yes evrything in abyssea is done in large alliance) and then grind bad exp for 2 hours untill the good exp actually comes. It's not better than duoing or trying VT mobs in Aht Urgan (15k/h).
Quote:
oh, and for salvage and the time issue: did you count all the assault runs you had to do in order to get APs too? I guess not :3
Golden savage, suck less.
nope.
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Leviathan.Pimpchan
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Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-07-23 06:53:44
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said:
I didn't say everything. My group has about 9 and we've killed most La Theine NMs/VNMs so far. Bringing alliances to Abyssea is for kill speed increase not difficulty, there's lots of terrain to use. Just unfortunately you'll drain a lot more time doing it. So yes, 6 can comfortably kil most NMs if they're willing to sacrifice time to do so.
You can also farm 95% of salvage content with only 2 people. Every NM in salvage (and every zone of limbus for instance) except skadi body can be duoed (some solo), including bosses. Only reason you usually 5 or 6 man it is for efficiency, and guess what ? that's what you are admitting in your post, since you bring 9 : even though *PART* of the content is low mannable, it takes an insane amount of time to do so you choose to 9-man it. I don't see much difference with salvage/limbus, beside the fact that you require 9 instead of 6. You are attempting to categorize an event as casual when it obvisouly is more of a pain than salvage or limbus. Therefore you post is admittance that it is more hardcore than salvage.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-07-23 06:55:45
I can farm and kill most NM's in abyssea with 2 or 3.
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By Unicorn.Cactustim 2010-07-23 07:09:46
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-07-23 07:10:32
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I didn't say everything. My group has about 9 and we've killed most La Theine NMs/VNMs so far. Bringing alliances to Abyssea is for kill speed increase not difficulty, there's lots of terrain to use. Just unfortunately you'll drain a lot more time doing it. So yes, 6 can comfortably kil most NMs if they're willing to sacrifice time to do so. You can also farm 95% of salvage content with only 2 people. Every NM in salvage (and every zone of limbus for instance) except skadi body can be duoed (some solo), including bosses. Only reason you usually 5 or 6 man it is for efficiency, and guess what ? that's what you are admitting in your post, since you bring 9 : even though *PART* of the content is low mannable, it takes an insane amount of time to do so you choose to 9-man it. I don't see much difference with salvage/limbus, beside the fact that you require 9 instead of 6. You are attempting to categorize an event as casual when it obvisouly is more of a pain than salvage or limbus. Therefore you post is admittance that it is more hardcore than salvage.
What's your point here? Efficiency and casual gameplay do not go hand in hand. That's my point. Salvage isn't a good example, the MORE you take to salvage, the worse it gets. (More than 6-7).
You can do Dynamis low man, even with 12. You won't be nearly as efficient (since in this case efficiency =/= total kills) as a group of 18+ (I'm ignoring stupid players in this argument).
The problem lies therein, if you take a low amount of people to an event like Dynamis, the rewards you get will take a huge hit. Abyssea isn't so, you can grab a group of friends, and choose to kill x NM a few times, then leave, while accumulating some XP in the process. Casual play is in no way related to efficiency.
Also, I never stated I was casual. We have as many as we do cause the event goes something along the lines of "/l who wants to do Abyssea?" and people check in. But my point stands, you can kill most of the NMs in Abyssea with less people, if you're okay losing time to do so, then do it by all means. That's what casual is.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-07-23 07:14:57
In regards to Salvage. At the very least, assuming 100% drop, you need three runs to get anything. Maybe a fourth if you need a card. Now factor the much much lower drop rates, AP requirement, Assault time consumption etc, and you have a much more demanding event. With Abyssea, you can literally grab a group of friends on x job, go kill things for pop items, pop, kill leave. Less you have, less you'll kill, but that's what casual play is.
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Serveur: Sylph
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By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 07:19:42
Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
salvage is 1h40, so less than abyssea exp runs, much less
since when do i get exp in salvage? i said i wanted to exp and not farm gear.
Quote:
You will not get 2 levels, not even one in 1 or 2 hours of playing because you first have to build your alliance (yes evrything in abyssea is done in large alliance) and then grind bad exp for 2 hours untill the good exp actually comes. It's not better than duoing or trying VT mobs in Aht Urgan (15k/h).
well, i did get 2 levels in 2 hours, sir. i went brd 75 > 77. believe it or not :3
Quote:
Golden savage, suck less.
Golden Salvage takes time too, even if its just a few minutes ;3
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Serveur: Sylph
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By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 07:24:39
oh and... salvage gear is kinda expensive too ;) so please count the time to make money too.
well, unless you buy gil. because how would you make millions of gil if youre just the 2 hr per day casual player!
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 Ramuh.Krizz
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By Ramuh.Krizz 2010-07-23 07:25:44
Why the hell is this thread still alive?
Serveur: Sylph
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By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 07:32:43
Ramuh.Krizz said: Why the hell is this thread still alive?
dunno, its funny to read is lame posts :P its like argueing w/ my 3 year old nephew :3
and i'm bored at work!
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By Unicorn.Cactustim 2010-07-23 07:38:01
tried my best to hijack it krizz D:
Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn
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By Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn 2010-07-23 07:44:08
dam 6 pages of pchan beating off to salvage? guess we need to "suck less" and let this die lol
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Leviathan.Pimpchan
Serveur: Leviathan
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Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-07-23 08:02:38
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: In regards to Salvage. At the very least, assuming 100% drop, you need three runs to get anything. Maybe a fourth if you need a card. Now factor the much much lower drop rates, AP requirement, Assault time consumption etc, and you have a much more demanding event. With Abyssea, you can literally grab a group of friends on x job, go kill things for pop items, pop, kill leave. Less you have, less you'll kill, but that's what casual play is.
Same as salvage. Enter pop your nm, kill it leave. you don't have to stay the whole run if only need one NM, so again wrong argument.
Serveur: Sylph
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By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 08:04:24
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: In regards to Salvage. At the very least, assuming 100% drop, you need three runs to get anything. Maybe a fourth if you need a card. Now factor the much much lower drop rates, AP requirement, Assault time consumption etc, and you have a much more demanding event. With Abyssea, you can literally grab a group of friends on x job, go kill things for pop items, pop, kill leave. Less you have, less you'll kill, but that's what casual play is.
Same as salvage. Enter pop your nm, kill it leave. you don't have to stay the whole run if only need one NM, so again wrong argument.
You didnt reply on what i said. c'mon, i was waiting for some uber arguments :3 i need entertainment.
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Leviathan.Pimpchan
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By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-07-23 08:07:38
Sylph.Lotusbluete said: oh and... salvage gear is kinda expensive too ;) so please count the time to make money too.
well, unless you buy gil. because how would you make millions of gil if youre just the 2 hr per day casual player!
Only body are expensive, and you can also farm it alone in the "casual" way that you like that much. Why do you systematically avoid the most hardcore part (magian weapon NMs) when you defend abyssea but systematically put forward salvage bodies when dealing with salvage ?
All your attempts to oppose salvage to abyssea failed. The argument of getting xp in abyssea and not salvage is dumb. You enter salvage only if you are maxed level ... If you want exp, fine, go in abyssea, but don't try to oppose abyssea and salvage because of the lack of exp. That's just dumb. It's like comparing dynamis to a merit party.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-07-23 08:12:03
Then both Salvage and Abyssea are casual.
Serveur: Sylph
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Posts: 704
By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 08:12:40
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Sylph.Lotusbluete said: oh and... salvage gear is kinda expensive too ;) so please count the time to make money too.
well, unless you buy gil. because how would you make millions of gil if youre just the 2 hr per day casual player!
Only body are expensive, and you can also farm it alone in the "casual" way that you like that much. All your attempts to oppose salvage to abyssea failed. The argument of getting xp in abyssea and not salvage is dumb. You enter salvage only if you are maxed level ... If you want exp, fine, go in abyssea, but don't try to oppose abyssea and salvage because of the lack of exp. That's just dumb. It's like comparing dynamis to a merit party.
i guess you havent noticed yet that you are the only person who keeps comparing salvage to abyssea, you even brought that up :O
and your argument was "it takes less time".
but:
1. farming APs (*see below)
2. shouting for ppl to join for salvage(*see below)
3. farming the gil or
4. doing ISNM (and shout for ppl!) to get own ores
... thats not casual ;3
* some ppl cant solo APs or dont have mules for it, so they need to shout for ppl and wait!
*some ppl dont have a salvage group, so they have to shout for ppl and wait!
* some ppl dont have thf leveled! oh noes! droprates will suck and takes more time!
See, thats the kind of argumentation you should totally understand :D ♥
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 Fairy.Spence
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Posts: 23779
By Fairy.Spence 2010-07-23 08:13:21
You're all noobs, everyone knows you get the best gear from Garrison >.>
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Serveur: Ifrit
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Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-07-23 08:21:08
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: In regards to Salvage. At the very least, assuming 100% drop, you need three runs to get anything. Maybe a fourth if you need a card. Now factor the much much lower drop rates, AP requirement, Assault time consumption etc, and you have a much more demanding event. With Abyssea, you can literally grab a group of friends on x job, go kill things for pop items, pop, kill leave. Less you have, less you'll kill, but that's what casual play is. Same as salvage. Enter pop your nm, kill it leave. you don't have to stay the whole run if only need one NM, so again wrong argument.
Yes, and you'd call that casual salvage right? Glad we agree now. But in terms of Time invested/rewards gained, Abyssea will on average wins.
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Serveur: Sylph
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Posts: 704
By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 08:24:05
Fairy.Spence said: You're all noobs, everyone knows you get the best gear from Garrison >.>
NO, you know nothing. It takes more time than Salvage.
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Leviathan.Pimpchan
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-07-23 08:35:49
Sylph.Lotusbluete said:
1. farming APs (*see below)
2. shouting for ppl to join for salvage(*see below)
3. farming the gil or
4. doing ISNM (and shout for ppl!) to get own ores
... thats not casual ;3
* some ppl cant solo APs or dont have mules for it, so they need to shout for ppl and wait!
*some ppl dont have a salvage group, so they have to shout for ppl and wait!
* some ppl dont have thf leveled! oh noes! droprates will suck and takes more time!
See, thats the kind of argumentation you should totally understand :D ♥
You are ridiculous if you think a casual player cannot gather assault points, but can attend 5 hours exp parties in abyssea. I mean all your above objections can be countered by the fact that it requires the same (and often stronger) constraints for abyssea
* farming AP *IS* casual - 10 minutes 3-man event.
* shouting for a salvage run is casual, at least more casual than an abyssea exp-18 man alliances (yes full ally)
* shout for an abyssea and wait to be full, same issue ; and it will only work for exp not for the large part of abyssea which is not exp. GL getting 10 dudes willing to farm your shitty NMs which drops will be obsoloete in 2 months.
* your objection for THF is dumb, abyssea NMs have a droprate so thf is needed too
you mad ?
Serveur: Shiva
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Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-07-23 08:39:35
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Sylph.Lotusbluete said:
1. farming APs (*see below)
2. shouting for ppl to join for salvage(*see below)
3. farming the gil or
4. doing ISNM (and shout for ppl!) to get own ores
... thats not casual ;3
* some ppl cant solo APs or dont have mules for it, so they need to shout for ppl and wait!
*some ppl dont have a salvage group, so they have to shout for ppl and wait!
* some ppl dont have thf leveled! oh noes! droprates will suck and takes more time!
See, thats the kind of argumentation you should totally understand :D ♥
You are ridiculous if you think a casual player cannot gather assault points, but can attend 5 hours exp parties in abyssea. I mean all your above objections can be countered by the fact that it requires the same (and often stronger) constraints for abyssea
* farming AP *IS* casual - 10 minutes 3-man event.
* shouting for a salvage run is casual, at least more casual than an abyssea exp-18 man alliances (yes full ally)
* shout for an abyssea and wait to be full, same issue ; and it will only work for exp not for the large part of abyssea which is not exp. GL getting 10 dudes willing to farm your shitty NMs which drops will be obsoloete in 2 months.
* your objection for THF is dumb, abyssea NMs have a droprate so thf is needed too
you mad ?
you french?
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Leviathan.Pimpchan
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-07-23 08:48:16
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: In regards to Salvage. At the very least, assuming 100% drop, you need three runs to get anything. Maybe a fourth if you need a card. Now factor the much much lower drop rates, AP requirement, Assault time consumption etc, and you have a much more demanding event. With Abyssea, you can literally grab a group of friends on x job, go kill things for pop items, pop, kill leave. Less you have, less you'll kill, but that's what casual play is. Same as salvage. Enter pop your nm, kill it leave. you don't have to stay the whole run if only need one NM, so again wrong argument.
Yes, and you'd call that casual salvage right? Glad we agree now. But in terms of Time invested/rewards gained, Abyssea will on average wins.
It's not a matter of wether salvage or abyssea will win. Abyssea is bound to win because ... the gear is for level 80 and salvage gear is level 75. This thread is not a "what's better ? salvage or abyssea ?" thread that idiots try to do. This thread is wether or not abyssea is intense hardcore content or not. You just admitted that abyssea is on average better than salvage, meaning it's not too far either - therefore it is hardcore (or casual if you consider salavge casual).
Also as far as ratio time/reward, I'd like to point out that the ratio reward/time invested is NULL for abyssea as the gear is capped at 80 and will be obsolete in 2 months. So don't try to find arguments for abyssea in relation to the ratio time/reward, because it will fail, and we knew this the moment SE announced gradual level caps.
If you want to optimize the ratio time invested/reward, stick to exping (and you don't need abyssea to get exp, hi2you astral burns and normal exp parties) and magian weapon NMs ( oh noes, I dare mentionned them again). Because we already know that level 80 magian weapons are required for further upgrade while the other gear is not...
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By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 08:49:04
Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
You are ridiculous if you think a casual player cannot gather assault points, but can attend 5 hours exp parties in abyssea. I mean all your above objections can be countered by the fact that it requires the same (and often stronger) constraints for abyssea
* farming AP *IS* casual - 10 minutes 3-man event.
* shouting for a salvage run is casual, at least more casual than an abyssea exp-18 man alliances (yes full ally)
* shout for an abyssea and wait to be full, same issue ; and it will only work for exp not for the large part of abyssea which is not exp. GL getting 10 dudes willing to farm your shitty NMs which drops will be obsoloete in 2 months.
* your objection for THF is dumb, abyssea NMs have a droprate so thf is needed too
you mad ?
- i never said farming APs wasnt casual. i was saying the whole package isnt casual ;)
- shouting for abyssea for 18/18 takes 10-15 min, at least on my server. booo... so long :(
- getting 6 dudes for farming you shitty salvage stuff when you shout for them is hard to manage i think. its either you have friends / ls to do salvage or abyssea with or you shout :D for both, cuteypie :3
And no, not mad. rather amused!
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Serveur: Ifrit
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Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-07-23 08:53:04
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: In regards to Salvage. At the very least, assuming 100% drop, you need three runs to get anything. Maybe a fourth if you need a card. Now factor the much much lower drop rates, AP requirement, Assault time consumption etc, and you have a much more demanding event. With Abyssea, you can literally grab a group of friends on x job, go kill things for pop items, pop, kill leave. Less you have, less you'll kill, but that's what casual play is. Same as salvage. Enter pop your nm, kill it leave. you don't have to stay the whole run if only need one NM, so again wrong argument. Yes, and you'd call that casual salvage right? Glad we agree now. But in terms of Time invested/rewards gained, Abyssea will on average wins. It's not a matter of wether salvage or abyssea will win. Abyssea is bound to win because ... the gear is for level 80 and salvage gear is level 75. This thread is not a "what's better ? salvage or abyssea ?" thread that idiots try to do. This thread is wether or not abyssea is intense hardcore content or not. You just admitted that abyssea is on average better than salvage, meaning it's not too far either - therefore it is hardcore (or casual if you consider salavge casual). Also as far as ratio time/reward, I'd like to point out that the ratio reward/time invested is NULL for abyssea as the gear is capped at 80 and will be obsolete in 2 months. So don't try to find arguments for abyssea in relation to the ratio time/reward, because it will fail, and we knew this the moment SE announced gradual level caps. If you want to optimize the ratio time invested/reward, stick to exping (and you don't need abyssea to get exp, hi2you astral burns and normal exp parties) and magian weapon NMs ( oh noes, I dare mentionned them again). Because we already know that level 80 magian weapons are required for further upgrade while the other gear is not...
I wasn't arguing that Abyssea is better than Salvage. I said Abyssea wins on a time/reward ratio. Who cares if what's available later gets outdated? Until that time, it's STILL a casual event, much more so than Salvage is. I don't care about XPing in Abyssea, it's still a nice added bonus regardless.
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Midgardsormr.Soki
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Posts: 466
By Midgardsormr.Soki 2010-07-23 08:56:34
Leviathan.Pimpchan said: Sylph.Lotusbluete said:
1. farming APs (*see below)
2. shouting for ppl to join for salvage(*see below)
3. farming the gil or
4. doing ISNM (and shout for ppl!) to get own ores
... thats not casual ;3
* some ppl cant solo APs or dont have mules for it, so they need to shout for ppl and wait!
*some ppl dont have a salvage group, so they have to shout for ppl and wait!
* some ppl dont have thf leveled! oh noes! droprates will suck and takes more time!
See, thats the kind of argumentation you should totally understand :D ♥
You are ridiculous if you think a casual player cannot gather assault points, but can attend 5 hours exp parties in abyssea. I mean all your above objections can be countered by the fact that it requires the same (and often stronger) constraints for abyssea
* farming AP *IS* casual - 10 minutes 3-man event.
* shouting for a salvage run is casual, at least more casual than an abyssea exp-18 man alliances (yes full ally)
* shout for an abyssea and wait to be full, same issue ; and it will only work for exp not for the large part of abyssea which is not exp. GL getting 10 dudes willing to farm your shitty NMs which drops will be obsoloete in 2 months.
* your objection for THF is dumb, abyssea NMs have a droprate so thf is needed too
you mad ?
meant for PC
DUDE, like i said, Go play something else or quit working and put in more time, OR, *** keep doing what you are and stop discrediting everything stated to you. if you like lvl 75 content, do that.
[+]
Serveur: Sylph
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Posts: 704
By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-07-23 09:01:30
Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
If you want to optimize the ratio time invested/reward, stick to exping (and you don't need abyssea to get exp, hi2you astral burns and normal exp parties).
Why would i pay 300k+ to get 50k exp in an AF burn, when i can get ~60k exp in 2 hours abyssea for free ( which is what i got in 2 hours on my last run). hi2you brosale!
and tbh im sick of common exp parties, same areas for years... booooring.
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After reading a lot of posts on different websites like ffxiah, alla, BG on abyssea, a lot of people consider abyssea the event "that everyone was waiting", especially "casual" players, whatever that means.
* I have seen reports of 5 hours exp parties in abyssea being awesome - how is that casual ?
* I checked the requirement for Verethragna, the empyrean H2H :
It requires 50 "Two-leaf Chloris Bud" ; this drops from "Chloris", an abyssea NM with unknown drop rate, not 100%. Requirements for popping Chloris are 4 key items :
*Veinous Hecteyes Eyelid => requires killing "Olphanim" not 100%
*Torn Bat Wing => requires killing "Treble Noctules" not 100%
*Gory Scorpion Claw => requires killing "Hedeteted" not 100%
*Mossy Adamantoise Shell => requires killing "Chukwa" not 100%
olphanim requires 3 "rare" items : "Bloodshot Hecteye" "Shriveled Wing" and a "Shriveled Pincer" - which themselves drop from either normal mobs or NMs that requires another item to pop. Hedetet and treble noctules work the same. Chukwa doesn't require pop (key) items.
Poping just *one* Chloris seems like more of a headache than poping a tier4 ZNM or the tier4 VNM, and you need 50 of its drop (hopefully 100% drop rate), making the difficulty to get the item much longer than getting a pandemonium warden drop.
How is this casual ? Did SE really manage to make us pay 10$ for a retardly time consuming event. It's not like Chloris is the only NM looked after, as there is one equivalent for each weapon it seems, and there a lot of other NMs dropping gear.
Did we really get an event 10x more cock blocking than Salvage ? Doing NMs in abyssea is not exactly the same as normal exp, you will quickly consume your time and be only able to enter once every few days alla dynamis/limbus.
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