|
Haste vs. Accuracy Endgame
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:27:44
Quote: The correct way to do it would be to find your average tp return and work from that, so again, you're wrong. Even if you're not going to go out of your way to calculate it for each individual situation and average it out, they're still not effected the same, sorry.
Basically, you're asking me to do the calculations for you. Why should I? You're smart, you know the basic fundamentals of the game, right? Should be a snap for you.
Here, I'll help a little. I'll link you to a site that's helpful for figuring this kind of stuff out.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
Quote: I've done a fair job of it already :)
And here come the smiley faces. You know, that thing that you throw out at random places when you realize you're at the end of your rope.
Next you're going to tell me that you're really enjoying this, and it was just for fun anyways. 'IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET GUIZES, HAVE FUN!!' is the typical response I get.
Quote: I already did the math on the other stuff, too. And nah, I knew what you were doing, you were never in control. I let it be dragged out as long as I wanted it to. Wanted everyone to see here how much of an idiot you are and how little you truly know, so next time you try to give advice, they'll know you to be full of ***. Once I felt I accomplished that, I stopped giving math responses. I don't need to do anymore.
Man, you got me bub. And you cleverly decided to pop my top 6 pages after it started. Right when I have you at a dead end too! How cunning of you.
Seriously though, there's only two conclusions to this long, drawn out thread. You follow through and how me how inferior P.harpe/Blau is ...or you don't, and give up.
Or you can pull the lolguysjustkidding! routine. It's up to you.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 00:32:24
Quote: Basically, you're asking me to do the calculations for you. Why should I? You're smart, you know the basic fundamentals of the game, right? Should be a snap for you More assumptions, I see. Hypocrite much? Again, I'm claiming they're not the same and you are claiming against it.
Quote: Seriously though, there's only two conclusions to this long, drawn out thread. You follow through and how me how inferior P.harpe/Blau is ...or you don't, and give up.
I've done enough, like I already said. Feel free to say as you wish or bait as you may. As I said, this is drawn out as long as I want it to be and at this point, it's over. We went from your saying that the two are equal based solely on DoT, didn't account for fstr, nor ws damage at all, to the detailed math I've posted.
Anyone who reads this thread will know you don't know wtf you're talking about and if you're going to give advice in the future, hopefully they'll double check it on a more reliable source.
Shiva.Daimos
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-06-05 00:33:42
Gilgamesh.Mytoy said: You realize it's everyone else versus you, right?
That has to tell you something. lol
If he doesn't realize the whole lolPharpe point I doubt he'll realize that...
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:34:09
Quote: Also, multi-quotes make my head hurt. Therefore, this whole thread is nothing but a headache.
I must be crazy to try and follow this.
Hope you enjoyed it. I haven't done something like that in a long time.
Quote:
Please explain the difference between 1STR and 2 Enfeebling skill when it comes to value on the gimp scale.
Sure thing. Difference of 1STR is maybe 2-5 damage. The difference of 2 enfeebling skill could be the difference between your slow/paralyze/bind/gravity landing and being resisted. In certain fights(cerb, khim, tier4 vnm, and so forth) they can mean the difference between your alliance winning and wiping. On another character, I have the absolute best gear possible for landing enfeebles(bar some HQs....because Mandau!) and even I get resisted more than I like on certain things.
Bahamut.Aiyana
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 235
By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-06-05 00:36:05
Actually. If there is one thing I'm tired of from you Ihina, is your complete unwillingness to give up information or try to prove your case.
Tigerwoods has tried to use math to show that you are(or are not) in error. The formula is missing information, and cannot be completed. He asked for gear sets, not for you to do the math. Is it so hard to just post some gear sets to use?
Yet still, you keep saying things like: "You're asking me to do the the math?" or "Go to ffxiclopedia and put the [unknown] numbers into the formulae there!"
This arguement is just words. There is no math to back it up, and thus it is nothing but opinion. Opinions are pointless, please provide math. If you are unwilling to provide math please SHUT THE **** UP.
On another note, Tigerwoods. If I were to provide a few gearsets for THF with the two dagger combos, could you do the math to really put the nail in the coffin?
Shiva.Daimos
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-06-05 00:36:53
Bismarck.Ihina said: Hope you enjoyed it. I haven't done something like that in a long time.
It was the best verbal ping-pong match ever!
Please, retire from ping-pong.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 00:39:20
Bismarck.Ihina said: Quote: Also, multi-quotes make my head hurt. Therefore, this whole thread is nothing but a headache.
I must be crazy to try and follow this.
Hope you enjoyed it. I haven't done something like that in a long time.
Quote:
Please explain the difference between 1STR and 2 Enfeebling skill when it comes to value on the gimp scale.
Sure thing. Difference of 1STR is maybe 2-5 damage. The difference of 2 enfeebling skill could be the difference between your slow/paralyze/bind/gravity landing and being resisted. In certain fights(cerb, khim, tier4 vnm, and so forth) they can mean the difference between your alliance winning and wiping. On another character, I have the absolute best gear possible for landing enfeebles(bar some HQs....because Mandau!) and even I get resisted more than I like on certain things. I enjoyed it quite a it, actually. Slyph sucks for lfp, it's been hours, but got a pt invite about 20 mins ago and we're getting ready to start now, so yay
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:45:09
Quote: More assumptions, I see. Hypocrite much? Again, I'm claiming they're not the same and you are claiming against it.
You like throwing around words like that huh? Assumptions...hypocrite....the more you fill your post with them, the better your argument sounds!
Here's something you might wanna try though, try telling me where I'm assuming or being a hypocrite so I can correct you(I'm not even going to say that I'll correct myself since that simply won't be the case given how this thread as turned out)
Quote: I've done enough, like I already said. Feel free to say as you wish or bait as you may. As I said, this is drawn out as long as I want it to be and at this point, it's over. We went from your saying that the two are equal based solely on DoT, didn't account for fstr, nor ws damage at all, to the detailed math I've posted.
Anyone who reads this thread will know you don't know wtf you're talking about and if you're going to give advice in the future, hopefully they'll double check it on a more reliable source.
So basically, you're going to give up.
You started by saying lolpharpe, and you were sooo adamant about it too. I asked for math and you were sooo eager to prove me wrong. And then when you realized it was too hard, you gave up. As i recall, this is your conclusion:
Quote: I can't compare speed since you did not give me a set, so I can conclude this math with
If Blau/Sirocco (which I can guarantee you would at least minimally be btw) WS 10.54131051% more often or more than Pharp/Blau, then Blau/Sirocco wins
Well spit on my neck and call me uncle, that looks pretty inconclusive to me! You CAN compare speed because you have everything you need. You just won't do it cause it's too hard for you, even if all you're doing in plugging in numbers in a formula that can be found on FFXIwiki and applying basic fundamentals to it.
Quote: We went from your saying that the two are equal based solely on DoT
Lolz no. They have roughly the same DoT. The increased WS frequency you get from Blau/Sirocco can be countered by the increased WS damage. You can go back and check if you want, that's just what I said.
What? You want me to prove it? Why should I? Need I remind you, again, you're the one getting on my case, remember? The burden of proof states that YOU need to show proof. All you've done the past three posts was ask me to do the math for you.
Comon now, really? Don't run away now, this could be so much more fun.
Quote: I enjoyed it quite a it, actually. Slyph sucks for lfp, it's been hours, but got a pt invite about 20 mins ago and we're getting ready to start now, so yay
Called it, didn't I? See:
Quote: Next you're going to tell me that you're really enjoying this, and it was just for fun anyways. 'IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET GUIZES, HAVE FUN!!' is the typical response I get.
Typical response from a typical person who found himself in a digging his own grave.
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:47:09
By the way, if Tigerwoods is retreating with his tail between his legs, any of you guys sitting on the sidelines want to jump in?
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 00:48:56
Bismarck.Ihina said: By the way, if Tigerwoods is retreating with his tail between his legs, any of you guys sitting on the sidelines want to jump in? Sure, I'd like you to jump in for me. Go ahead, finish it off.
As I told you, I've been in full control this entire time. Your feeble attempts at baiting me back in, you're going to have to try a tad harder.
Remora.Laphine
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 356
By Remora.Laphine 2010-06-05 00:49:51
anyone even checked my math? lolz
Blau/SK certainly won there!
Shiva.Daimos
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-06-05 00:50:35
Ihina, you should meet Daleterrence's mule. I'm sure you have a lot in common.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 00:51:17
Quote: You started by saying lolpharpe, and you were sooo adamant about it too. I asked for math and you were sooo eager to prove me wrong. And then when you realized it was too hard, you gave up. As i recall, this is your conclusion:
Well spit on my neck and call me uncle, that looks pretty inconclusive to me! You CAN compare speed because you have everything you need.
Asked you for gear sets 5 or 6 times, you declined. Your fault, sorry.
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:52:41
Quote: Sure, I'd like you to jump in for me. Go ahead, finish it off.
As I told you, I've been in full control this entire time. Your feeble attempts at baiting me back in, you're going to have to try a tad harder.
No mang! I has been in controls the whole tiem! You can't full me!
Shiva.Daimos
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-06-05 00:55:07
Gilgamesh.Mytoy said: You're still not going to admit you're wrong on all accounts?
Not likely.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 00:57:21
Bismarck.Ihina said: Quote: Sure, I'd like you to jump in for me. Go ahead, finish it off.
As I told you, I've been in full control this entire time. Your feeble attempts at baiting me back in, you're going to have to try a tad harder.
No mang! I has been in controls the whole tiem! You can't full me! C'mon try harder!
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:58:11
Quote: Asked you for gear sets 5 or 6 times, you declined. Your fault, sorry.
And I've stated multiple times that gear set doesn't matter and I've already explained why, all of which you ignored. Haste, double attack and triple attack affect both dagger sets equally. Store tp doesn't matter as far as forming a hit-build because TP return on WSs vary. Alot. All you have to do is to take it all into consideration when making your calculations. Far as DW goes, all you have to do is differentiate one piece. It's hard as as tweaking one number.
It's not that hard. There's nothing you should be complaining about.
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 00:59:07
Do eet you poopy head! And move smiley faces so show that you're enjoying this!
Shiva.Weewoo
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-05 01:00:01
Bismarck.Ihina said: Quote: Asked you for gear sets 5 or 6 times, you declined. Your fault, sorry.
And I've stated multiple times that gear set doesn't matter and I've already explained why, all of which you ignored. Haste, double attack and triple attack affect both dagger sets equally. Store tp doesn't matter as far as forming a hit-build because TP return on WSs vary. Alot. All you have to do is to take it all into consideration when making your calculations. Far as DW goes, all you have to do is differentiate one piece. It's hard as as tweaking one number.
It's not that hard. There's nothing you should be complaining about.
I cracked up on the first sentence.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 01:01:34
Bismarck.Ihina said: Quote: Asked you for gear sets 5 or 6 times, you declined. Your fault, sorry.
And I've stated multiple times that gear set doesn't matter and I've already explained why, all of which you ignored. Haste, double attack and triple attack affect both dagger sets equally. Store tp doesn't matter as far as forming a hit-build because TP return on WSs vary. Alot. All you have to do is to take it all into consideration when making your calculations. Far as DW goes, all you have to do is differentiate one piece. It's hard as as tweaking one number.
It's not that hard. There's nothing you should be complaining about. Already explained why you were wrong on the store tp, try again. Haste, never refuted it. DA/TA, never refuted it, ect. now you're making points that I never disagreed with to begin with.
Shiva.Daimos
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-06-05 01:02:56
Bismarck.Ihina said: Store tp doesn't matter as far as forming a hit-build because TP return on WSs vary. Alot. Didn't he say take the average? Dodging bullets left and right...
If store TP was so pointless, why the hell do you even wear skadi chausses? Because someone told you they were the best? If that's how it worked, I'd be working my *** off to get a lolridill, or worse Trashkar Zuchetto.
Bismarck.Ihina
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2010-06-05 01:03:25
Careful, juicy might lead out.
Gear set doesn't matter when comparing two sets of daggers against each other since you're just dividing them by the same ratio. The only thing that does matter is DW since it changes the tp/hit, since the lower your delay, the higher the tp/delay since it curves up. I've already noted this and offered a remedy to.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 01:05:21
ITT stp gear doesn't change your tp/hit
Remora.Laphine
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 356
By Remora.Laphine 2010-06-05 01:05:32
stp matters though. Actually Pharpe/blau is favored by it with 13 stp from skadi rajas and brutal.
4.7 is the tp/hit of P/B (got tired of typing the whole name)
4.7*1.13 = 5.311
B/S tp/hit:
4.5*1.13 = 5.085
So B/S looses 0.085 tp from truncation and P/B loose 0.011.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-05 01:09:12
What's funny is even if I did math it out, he'd have found some other *** to follow.
WHAT ABOUT A SITUATION THAT DOESN'T FAVOR BLAU/SIROCCO! USE MINIMUM STORE TP WITH IT AND MAX WITH PHARP
Bleh... I'm hoping this isn't as dumb a question as I feel it is, but was talking with a friend about the pros and cons of haste builds vs. accuracy builds when dealing with endgame mobs (anything from Dynamis mobs to HNMs and then some).
I'm personally leaning towards Accuracy since the evasion of the mobs is usually higher and this way there are less WIFFS. My friend is all for as much Haste as you can stack and DEX/STR where you can't to balance out the misses.
Which is better? Or is there a medium where you stack Haste where you can and Acc where you can't?
I've been playing mage jobs much more lately so I'm not up to date on THF gear wants/needs. :(
|
|