Haste Vs. Accuracy Endgame

Quote Bismarck.Ihina

"And can we not bring in birds. If you're going to center your gear on birds, then so be it. Don't have it apply to all mobs in the game."

From Lv25 onwards Birds are what pretty much everyone exp`s on so I can kinda understand why he used birds as an example.

Just sayin...

It doesn't matter what definition of sub par you're using (I wasn't aware it even meant more than one thing?). It means it's not the best, the same as decent.

Either way it doesn't matter, however, because Cobra Harness, and acc+7 haste+3 asa legs are not sub par no matter which of your imaginary definitions you use.[/quote]

I still don't understand how you're so incredibly incapable of understanding my point.

Go for decent, then go for the best. Ignore the in-between increments.

What you're trying to have me say is to not go for decent at all because they're also subpar to the best. That's a complete misrepresentation of my point and you've only come to that conclusion because of how badly you've taking the individual pieces of my argument out of context.

I'm not going to bother with you anymore.

While that's true, let me remind you that this game really doesn't begin until you start doing endgame, where you're not beating on soft pink birds.

I'm not certain on this, but doesn't the game floor it at every step? -Not- at the end of he equation?
I don't quite understand the "30% chance of gaining another damage". Do you mean, 30% of the time you gain 1DMG and 70% of the time you do not?

Then shut the *** up and make the sets already. I told you that I would let YOU pick the sets and I'd compare them. Other than that, it stays as it is.
You keep talking unfair terms, and I've offered on MORE than one occasion to pick the sets to fit the terms you want, and you still haven't done it. Nobody's fault but your own.

I never said it didn't. Read again.
I never said that either. Someone else did. Why are you replying to me with it?
WSC is multiplied by a alpha, .83. Which means, that a 30% mod will have approx a 1/4 chance to raise your base dmg by 1. Warwolf has 5 str, the 1 fstr, I already accounted for. The other 1 str has a 25% chance to bump you up to +2 fstr. Aka, that 1 str is doing the same thing as that 1 dex, so I left both of them out. (and yes, I did say 1-2 fstr, but I did not apply 1-2 fstr to my numbers, I only applied 1 fstr, otherwise I would have said negative 1 to zero, but I only said 0 gain. I accounted for the 1 dex 25% base dmg increase negating the 1 str fstr 25% increase. So again, I said it, yes, but I never applied it to my numbers).
Note where I specifically said
You're arguing an argument I never stepped into. I never claimed that Warwolf was better when fstr is capped. My claim is for when it is not capped.
I already covered this and yes, I SAID 1-2 FSTR, but only 1 fstr was ever applied to my math and 2 was not. Or i would have said negative 1 to zergo damage instead of zero damage. I said 0 though, only accounting for the 1 fstr.

Try again.

Sure, we can do this on your terms all you want. Provide the mob you want the math to be done on, the exact stats of the said monster, and the gear sets you want to use. Other than that, you've offered nothing and I'm picking something with known stats as to not further complicate things.

hey tiger, do you know the stats for Kirin?

Actually I'm pretty sure he's right about that >_>;

I'll go ahead and answer this for you. Well first of all, 30% mod is gonna be a 25% chance to increase damage after alpha is applied. At the end, all numbers are floored, but that's the last setp. So let's say your number ends in .75-.99, then the .25 from a 25% chance will bump you up to the next DMG. If you're .1-.74, the .25 is going to leave you w/ less than the next complete number and it will round down to the same number you had to begin with.

For simplicity, let's say you're not looking at your dex and calculating your WSC, and each dex is going to add .25 DMG.
Base dex
base dex+1
Base dex+2
base dex+3

We now have 4 values of dex. Add one more dex to each of these and only one of them will result in a DMG boost, hence the 25% chance. (though if you know how to calculate it, and know your exact dex, then you'll know for sure whether that 1 dex will be enough or not)

yeah i rushed into it a bit lol.
(edit: damn hot thread, already on 6th page)
Oh well anyway, off to complete my comparison because i'm bored.

298 delay = 149 per hand = 4.7tp per hit
252 delay = 126 per hand = 4.5tp per hit

pharpe/blau tp/s = 4.7*60/149 = 1.89
blau/sk tp/s = 4.5*60/126 = 2.14

Blau/sk gains tp 13.22% faster. This number is more valid than saying its simply 18% faster cause delay does not translate linearly into number of ws's done. 13.22% also does not, but it's closer. It's only close because it does not factor tp overflowed over 100. Still this is not % increase in ws damage.

Of to it:
Taking my set base ws damage on colibris.
Blau = 33 + 10 + 28 = 71
Sk = 26 + 10 + 28 = 64
Pharpe = 37 + 11 + 28 = 76

Pharpe/blau damage= 76*1.1875 ftp + 76*4 + 71 = 465
Blau/sk damage= 71*1.1875 ftp + 71*4 + 64 = 432


432*2.14/(465*1.89) = 1.0519

Blau/sk has 5.19% increase in ws damage not counting tp overflow.

Negative

Think I read yesterday he has around 150 int?
Other than that no clue.

hm yeah i remember something like that from a jp site. It was 150 or 120 on everything.

edit: from googling
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=7&mid=1176162586317909445&howmany=50

I guess it's 120 on everything then.

Mytoy, you're an idiot. There are no other ways for me to convoy this. We're not even arguing anymore. I'm actually agreeing with what you said, but somehow you're still using it to try and attack me. Congratulations on winning.

Yes. If after all your modifiers and what-not puts you at xx.7, xx.8 or xx.9, the belt will give you another DMG. Otherwise, it doesn't help your DMG at all.

Being overly aggressive online doesn't do anything besides leak your desperation. Why not talk me down instead of yelling at me(over the internet) to get me down.

And I've already submitted to you what I think is fair. Either consider fSTR fully or don't consider it at all.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post because I have a feeling it's all going to be void until you fix yourself anyways. Unless you feel the need to ask me something that I've already answered again, then go ahead!

I am curious though, why you think it's a 25% chance of increasing DMG rather than 30%.

And as I recall, Kirin has 150INT. Wyrms usually have around 110INT I think, which is one of the basis of the whole 320/120 thing.

Well, seeing as you have no retort this time, you've given up.

Anyways, to answer your question
"I am curious though, why you think it's a 25% chance of increasing DMG rather than 30%."

Because it's not 30. Look at the formula.

WSC = floor (floor((A x A%) + (B x B%)) x α)

α changes depending on your level. At level 75, it's .83

note where I said approx and not exactly 25%.

30% aka .3 x 83% (alpha) aka .83

.3 x .83 = .249~ 25% instead of 30. It'd be 30 if there was no alpha, but there is, so it's not.

I don't follow. You asked me what I could consider a fair set for comparison purposes and I provided it.

Then you tell me I have no retort so I gave up. Well then, do you want me to call you some silly name? Ok then, you're a poopy head.

Now, go ahead and make your comparison. I've given you what you asked for already.



And you're right about the whole alpha thing. I completely forgot.

BTW, I like how this went from a 'Haste VS Acc' thread to a 'P.harpe/Blau' vs 'Blau/Sirocco' thread.

I already know the outcome, btw, because the Math has already been done fully. Ultimately, there's so little difference between them that it's not even worth noting, just as I stated at the beginning of all this.

But go ahead, have fun with it.

No, I told you to give me exact sets, exact mb and stats of the mob, ect. I could go back and cap fstr for both weps if you want, but until you give me sets I'm not gonna be able to calculate the diff in WS rate and you said you don't want colibri, so give me another mob.

So, you want me to go back to my orig math and cap fstr for both? If you're not going to give me a mob and a set, I won't modify it any more than what you asked, which is 12 fstr vs 10

Though, in situations where you don't need a DEX dakini, wouldn't X's/OAT beat everything?

Yes.

I'm sure you, yourself, understand why. fStr helps lower delay weapons more than higher delay weapons. Assigning the same fStr to both combination will heavily favor one over the other.

Personally, I think you're starting to see things in my favor and because of that, you're going to do anything and everything to make sure your pair pulls out ahead, even if you make an unfair comparison. While you do that, I'll go look for the math that's been done to death between the two dagger pairs that shows they're roughly the same.

I'd argue Blau/OAT would probably do better unless a substantial portion of your damage comes from WS/SA/TA (higher end stuff).

I don't care roughly the same. If they're not exactly the same, then you using pharp/blau > Blau/sirroco, especially when you already have sirroco is both silly and stupid.

I'll redo the math though, sure.

First of all, you always need the DEX.

Second, I'd take Blau/OAT over X's/OAT.

Third, I'm not sure since I haven't done the math myself, but as far as those folks over in alla are concerned, Thunder dakini/Blau is the best combo bar relic.

Blau/OAT does beat out both P.harpe/Blau and Blau/Sirocco though and I have done the math on that(which really pissed me off because my p.harpe has reduced further in stature), but being consistent with the whole not jumping little increments thing, I decided to not get that and just focus on the Mandau.

I originally stated that they're roughly the same.

If you want to show that they're not exactly the same, well I can tell you that right now. Just don't put words in my mouth and claim I stated they're exactly the same.

I never put words in your mouth. I'm saying that roughly the same isn't equal to exactly the same, and since they're not exactly the same using the one that is a weaker combo is both silly and stupid.

Well, I have Blau/sirroco, but Pharp/blau is ALMOST the same!

Well you go ahead and say that.

Need I remind you that you're trying to prove what I said was wrong.

If you're going to prove something that doesn't have to do with me, then it really doesn't have to do with me. Maybe I haven't made it clear that I have no interest in arguing on your terms?

By the way, 'almost' has an entirely different meaning than 'roughly' or 'exactly'. It's like you're not even trying to hide the fact that you want to further distort what I'm saying anymore.

I don't get it. You say they're roughly the same, but admit Blau/Sirocco is minimally better. You have all three daggers, but you opt for the pair that is minimally worse.

Why do you have HQ armor again? They're only marginally better than NQ, right?

And don't bother with Cobra Unit Harness and ASA pants because they're only marginally better than anything until you get Homam and Skadi's. I think I'm getting the hang of this now.

Where did I do that? I never admit that Blau/Sirocco was minimally better.

No, because they are always better in every case.

And no, you don't bother with those two because they're a waste of time when you could be shooting for something else that's unconditionally better.

Thanks for your 2cents.

Hey look, another person who disagrees with me and completely distorting my stance, taking things out of context. Maybe I should admit I'm wrong.

Also, I'd agree that acting over aggressive feels like a sign of desperation and it irks me. But sometimes you can't seem to get something through someone's thick skull without a little bit of force.

Oh so they're "roughly the same," but not exactly the same--so PHarpe/Blau is better?