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Why is it so difficult to criticize Islam without angrying it deeply?
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 18:28:50
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: hey look a bunch of baseless accusations
i can do that too
A) you masterminded the IRS bombing
B) you created the swine flu
C) you've been banned from every message board you've posted on but this one for being generally insufferable(oh wait)
admittedly, my spelling isn't great, but i usually fix it
and i do edit my posts(see above) If you really don't see your fallacies, then maybe you should stop playing with words too difficult for you and go back to your usual level of usage.
if that was too difficult for you to understand, maybe this will help:
Stop typing and go read. This book may suit you.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Asura.Balufalu 2010-05-01 18:29:06
Phoenix.Kojo said: Asura.Balufalu said: Can't we just take Psyence out back and beat him/her?
That'd be a hate crime. Ahahahaha xD
I'd hate to see the 10-paragraph ramblings of how he's so opressed then lol
[+]
Phoenix.Ingraham
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 963
By Phoenix.Ingraham 2010-05-01 18:34:24
Quote: Have you ever seen a single Arabic person and expect him not to be a Muslim?
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 18:34:32
Well thank you forums you've taught me something new today.
I had no Idea what a HIJAB was, and now I've learned.
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 18:35:56
Shiva.Flionheart said: Well thank you forums you've taught me something new today. I had no Idea what a HIJAB was, and now I've learned.
Take it off, and you're being immodest. Remember that.
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 18:38:03
Shiva.Flionheart said: Well thank you forums you've taught me something new today.
I had no Idea what a HIJAB was, and now I've learned.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 18:41:03
I'd love to fap into a Hijab.
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 18:42:24
you would do that, wouldn't you? >.>
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 18:45:35
Asura.Korpg said: you would do that, wouldn't you? >.>
You know it K-Dawg :D
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 18:49:59
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 18:51:33
can you close this forum please.
ppl having nothing to do other then trying to find out somthing they waste time with and by coincidence they find in TV or newspaper word " Islam " and they went like hmmm why not to talk about it
if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 18:53:46
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: can you close this forum please.
ppl having nothing to do other then trying to find out somthing they waste time with and by coincidence they find in TV or newspaper word " Islam " and they went like hmmm why not to talk about it
if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all
you smell like rotten cheese
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 18:54:46
that's why I askd to close forum lol,
you have nothing else to do then replying with annoying stuff
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 18:55:07
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: can you close this forum please.
ppl having nothing to do other then trying to find out somthing they waste time with and by coincidence they find in TV or newspaper word " Islam " and they went like hmmm why not to talk about it
if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all wait, you saying that all these terrorist attacks that has been happening for the last 20 some odd years have nothing to do with Islam? Al-Qaeda isn't trying to kill all these infidels for not believing in his god? And everything was made up by the media and/or government and/or Christians and/or Capitalists and/or aliens?
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 18:55:08
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: can you close this forum please.
ppl having nothing to do other then trying to find out somthing they waste time with and by coincidence they find in TV or newspaper word " Islam " and they went like hmmm why not to talk about it
if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all Was anyone else able to comprehend this?
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 18:55:40
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: that's why I askd to close forum lol,
you have nothing else to do then replying with annoying stuff
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 18:57:31
Shiva.Flionheart said: Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: that's why I askd to close forum lol, you have nothing else to do then replying with annoying stuff
Hawt.
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 18:58:22
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: can you close this forum please.
ppl having nothing to do other then trying to find out somthing they waste time with and by coincidence they find in TV or newspaper word " Islam " and they went like hmmm why not to talk about it
if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all Was anyone else able to comprehend this? It was just another person's avoidance of accepting that other people have different points of view.
Its either run away from the truth, censorship, or mass murder.
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:00:29
not really , you all trying to make islam looks bad
+ this is game forums why do you have to talk about religons?
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By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:01:02
*hovers over Virusheartt's location* Saudi Arabia.
Checks forum posts: 2, both in this thread.
[+]
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:01:27
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: not really , you all trying to make islam looks bad
this is game forums why do you have to talk about religons? It is the damn truth.
Why are you running away from new ideas?
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:01:43
Not all middle eastern people are terrorists, but most terrorists these days are middle eastern.
[+]
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 19:01:50
No they're making Islamic extremists look bad.. Unless you are one, why do you really care?
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:02:15
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: not really , you all trying to make islam looks bad
this is game forums why do you have to talk about religons?
If this was only for game discussion, then we wouldn't have Forum >> For Everything Else >> Politics and Religion, though. >.>
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 19:02:23
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: not really , you all trying to make islam looks bad this is game forums why do you have to talk about religons?
More importantly, why do we have to talk about games? >.>
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:03:55
I want to talk about my milkshake
and how it brings all the boys to the yard.
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:04:02
soo you are saying that HIJAB comes from Islamic extremists ? no?
then why mention it here?
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:05:44
I'm not attacking Islam's practices except one.
They are constantly afraid of new ideas. So, instead of learning from them, they run away. When they can't run away, they destroy the idea.
Case in point: There is a passage in the Qur'an that states that infidels must be killed.
Now, you ask, what is an infidel? Its people who don't believe what you believe. So, basically the Qur'an is stating that non-believers must be killed.
And you still state that Islam is a peaceful religion???
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 19:05:49
How about this, just STFU and GTFO and go QQ somewhere else.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:06:01
Holy ***, did you know you could get Muslim swimwear?
It's called a Burqini! (I'm being serious)
I think I figured out how it is possible that the large majority of people from the Muslim world would be so profoundly offended when their Prophet is criticized or made fun of. I mean, to them, it could very well look obvious, yet it seems they do not really understand why either. A lot of them just accept that someone would be killed for depicting the prophet Mohamed, even though we ask them why, in a way that we feel cannot be argued with. How is it possible that someone would be hated for openly making fun of something as mundane as religion, we ask? I think I can reasonably explain why they would accept the idea, believe it or not. I want to know what is to be done if we're going to help these people stop feeling so persecuted and if we’re going to finally gain the right to criticize Islam, as it should be, without threatening the people in it. The answer, I think, lies in our perceptions of what religion is versus where it should stand in relations to ethnicity. Help me out.
First, it is difficult to argue against the idea that Islam, to this day, is majorly against the advancement of secular culture. It is associated so directly to what I would refer, for lack of a better word, Arabian culture, that criticizing a religion tied so closely with it, appears (at least from my personal experience) to insult them, as people. Another factor to consider is how Muslims, despite their divisions, have the strength in numbers to lead us into being cautious about criticizing Islamic beliefs, even if it shouldn’t be so. Any critic, whether it is well intentioned or backed with incredibly solid and logical arguments, seems to backfire when it is targeted at Islam. More than often, it seems to be giving more reasons to feel justified, leading Islamic countries to cocoon themselves from modern secular culture. Unlike other ethnicities that are also extremely tied to their religion; the Jews, for example, the fact that they’re over a billion, somewhat gives them the mental ability to feel universally justified. It’s as if any strong criticism of Islam was a threat to their identity, integrity and intelligence, even when it’s not...
In a secular view, insulting religion doesn't necessarily equate to racial discrimination, and the fact that our western culture systematically ignores this, is the key point that prevents the western world from understanding why Muslims would be so offended. I have come to realize that a lot of Muslims try to say it, but it seems they do not understand what I am writing here, at least not enough to put it into the proper words that would make us understand. My goal is to help us both come to understand, through careful yet fortunate observations which I feel have led me to grasp some of this intricate psychology.
Let’s think for a second about this analogy: Let’s compare some white guy shouting racist comments towards blacks to your average non-Christian openly criticizing Christianity. Which is the worst, in the eyes of the average American, or European? Racism, isn’t it? Racism is undoubtedly the worst of those two things, at least according to our modern secular values. This is not to say that racism has been eradicated from the Western world, far from it. But even for the most racist among us in North America, it is extremely discouraged to make a racist statement publicly. It is not viewed as acceptable at all.
Have you ever seen a single Arabic person and expect him not to be a Muslim? It's as if their religion has so much grasp that it's nearly impossible for an Arabic person to not be a Muslim. But why doesn’t anyone seem to question this fact? Isn’t it fishy, considering that religion should be a choice? In fact, Muslims, in Muslim countries, are taught, from childhood, that the punishment for apostasy is death. The indoctrination is done to them so early in their life, and in such a strong and unquestionable way, that it achieves terrific results; it is almost irreversible. To them this is a good thing; to us, it’s just wrong.
In my opinion, the fact that Islam, as a religion, has been able to keep such a strong grasp, to this day, on the lives of the almost entirety of Arabic cultures is leading the Islamic world to a dangerous path. We all know that not only religion can be used to control masses, ii can also be a dangerous weapon. In America, some will argue, television is used for mass propaganda and it is difficult for the majority to avoid being brainwashed by many ideas that they would otherwise have never acquired as individuals. However, an average occidental still gets to make SOME choices about what morality should be; they chose whether they’ll be for or against abortion, whether they’ll be against slavery or not, whether they’ll vote for a black man or not.
It is possible to speak with a Muslim about what we dislike in Islam, without him getting angry. I have experienced it myself. It is difficult, however. Even as I was able to converse, I would feel the incredible pain that questioning one’s own identity can inflict on an indoctrinated individual. As we cannot tolerate being racially discriminated, they cannot tolerate negative criticism of Islam; they view is as their culture.
It may be sad to say, for most of us who wish for world peace, but secularism is not going to happen anytime soon in the Arab world. It could never be forced on Muslims. It is completely against their conception of what a religion should be and what place it should have in their life. Through what I have just explained, we can even understand the bottomless frustration of Muslims against non-Muslims when faced with debates like whether or not we should be banning the Burka in public spaces. The same issue arises: to us, it’s common sense and required for secularism, to them it’s a slap in the face, not as a Muslim but as an Arab. To us, it's freedom of speech; to them, it's against it. It is an insult to their culture, just as we would react to someone trying to deny our right to have a cultural background, just as we would react to a Muslim telling a White woman that wearing g-strings is degrading and wrong.
How can we possibly achieve a secular society, with Muslims living in it, if we do not agree on whether it’s okay to force someone to act secularly? Aren’t we stuck with the problem of having many kids arguing about who gets to play with the ball, while one of the kids sits on the ball, arguing that it should not be played with in the first place? How flexible can secularism be, without ending up betraying itself?
Can we find a temporary solution? I would like your opinion.
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