Health Care Reform Passes

Where have you been?! What you described is actually happening United states.
You probably never been to Parkland Hospital.
Yes this is in Texas the most Republican you can get.





How about this old chest nut.




How about this poor guy?





As a matter of fact Endlesspath said it earlier:

"Do you really think most medical professionals are in the business simply to help people? (reality check guys)"
If they're not, I don't want them treating me.

So how do I know when I go to the doctor that I really need to see that specialist(Which costs by the way) or get this test taken? How do I know that I really need that expensive surgery or take these relatively cheap meds to get better? How do I know that I need to pay another 80$ per IV and that I need 4 of them?

Just gonna have to wait and see. Too early to jump to OMG WE'RE *** or YAY UTOPIA conclusions. Just hope it's for the better.

Not to sound like a troll, but if it's so good up there, why did 2-3 of my friends from Canada spend so much time trying to get surgery, and ultimately they each ended up getting treated in America?

Spend time surgery?

Too much lack of detail. Could you further explain what happened?

It's like this you see; Insurance > Surgery > If they can't help you they send you to another "specialized" hospital.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say with "trying to get surgery".

Do you mean the long waiting lines?

EDIT: You do sound like a troll, because you throw out indiviual cases with barely any desription.

Well, true I don't have much detail, this was from when I was younger. If I see any of them log on I'll ask.

From what it seemed, my friend Scott was diagnosed with I think either pancreatic cancer or Chrohn's disease or something, I forget. He kept saying that he went from one surgeon to the next and that no one was able to treat him. Ultimately, after just a bit over a year as I recall, he ended up coming to NYC to get operated on.

Is there just a massive waiting line up there or something? I really don't understand much of this since I'm still in HS and never had to worry about it >______>

Edit: No, I think you mistake an honest question for trolling. There's really no room for ignorance, is there? Because I didn't know and had a question, I must be an ***. Of course.

Why do you think so many Canadians travel to the United States to receive medical care

That doesn't have to do with the insurance part as much as the expertise part. Which are two completely different sides of a coin.

If you can't get treated in, say country A but they have the medical expertise in country B, then you'll obviously visit country B to get your required care.

This has nothing to do with the insurance in the country as much as the availability of needed care.

What many people don't realize is that we're going to have to wait 4 years for the Health Care reform to take effect. And that for those 4 years we'll be heavily taxed. We'll be working our *** off the rest of our lives for other people.

For all the Reagan fans out there:

The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

It's about time they passed this thing! Sucks the public option or the single payer option was left out... guess you can't have everything with all these ignorant politicians. Oh well at least it's a start in the right direction.

And seriously knock it off with the dramatics, this isn't a step towards socialism nor is there death panels. I don't get why people are so prone to falling for obviously embellished scare tactics.

while the expertise is probably correct so is the health care policy of the country, they travel to america to receive health care faster than they would in canada

That's because you used to have 47 million people not getting any care in your country.

That's over now, bra.

Guess it really sucks for you Canadians then :P

and now we have to pay for them to receive health care, and the reform will take quiet a while to take effect anyway.

Using the same logic, have you ever checked out a book at a local public library? If you have then someone probably payed for you to be able to. I haven't checked a book out, so I demand you stop checking out books as it costs me tax money.

I don't know about you, but my parents payed 250 a month for health insurance for no reason more then half the time. I'm sure they'd be willing to pay that instead in taxes so that maybe when they aren't sick someone else can get health care, and when they are sick some other people will help us.

If you can't accept paying taxes so that you and everyone else may have an opportunity to receive health care, then you are an inhumane being. It's absolutely sickening how people can be so focused on the almighty dollar and how much money they make and how they should get every penny.

Plot spoiler: We have 12 trillion in debt and there is only one way to pay that back: Taxes. So if you are butt hurt about this, you might as well leave the country, or kill yourself.

Oh and on a side note, the reason people in this country are afraid of socialism was explained to me by my conservative cousin.

Socialized health care is the next step to a one world government which is the beginning of the end times in Christianity. So, we are force fed from Faux news and the religious community that socialism is horrible and bad. On top of talking about how it'll ruin our economy and ruin your dreams of ever owning a business or living the American dream and being rich (lolnothappening).

So, there is no sound and sane reason to not be for socialism. If you are against it, it is because you are force fed from the conservative republicans that it is wrong and you lapped up their lies with your mind blindly. There is no way anyone can change your mind and you will go to the grave with that mindset. All I can hope for is that people who are of sane mind will band together and force it down your throats.

Who cares?

The world is going to end in 2012 anyways. :P

THIS. THIS IS THE FOOKIN POINT. Poor health care and everything following it (health insurance lobby just one example) is a plague to fight just like corruption, like analphabetism, like uuuh i dunno. Raising health standard of the population is a MUST for a nation. More ppl gain access to more health treatment, spending less money, that they can use to have higher life standard.
If u can cure more ppl, more ppl will be able to work, less ppl will die, and is gonna have a longer life = higher life standard. It's not like that people who is rich and can afford health cares will have less, it's just that people that can't afford cares will be able to receive MORE cares. Someone spoke about "if u don't pay the rent, u get kicked out" it's not the same. You get a house with a rent u can afford based on ur job and ur salary. You can't choose what disease u will get based on ur wallet. AND, if ur disease is not covered by ur care plan cuz u r TOO POOR, u get kicked by ur loyal health insurance. Wow.


I pay taxes for services in my nation. Taxes are an instrument, through this instrument a nation re-distribute all over the population the goods. U earn more, u r richer. u pay more. U contribute to make better your nation and your fellow citizens, so that your nation can grow up.
And this do not affect services quality. I wonder why then Europeans live more than Americans.
THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM. Socialism is dead, or never born, depends.
It's just taking care of your nation the more you can. And trust me if i say that even here where we have public health, ppl that don't work and illegal immigrants get just basic cares. if u dun pay taxes, u dun get all the services, just basic ones. We are talking about ppl that work their *** out but still can't afford to be in good health, there are a lot of examples in this thread.


(And sorry for bad english <_< just trying to write "my 2 cents")

Why did people come to America in the first place? To get away from the socialist views of the "rest of the modern world". Why do so many people cross our borders illegally? To have a better life! Live the American dream! A place where you have a right to choice, where is my choice going? Not 1 republican voted for this, this will go down in history as the biggest blunder the democrats have done.

People cross the closest border to a rich county. We have tons of people crossing borders in every European country as well, it's because, like America, we are rich people and the people on the other side of the border are poor and want to be rich (or safe).
It has absolutely nothing to do with socialism. In fact, these guys are in deep ***because of capitalism.

You talk about choice. Where is your choice when your kid is born with a need of heavy medical treatment and you can't afford to save him ? Where is your choice when you get one of these cancers that randomly hit more than 50% of the population ? Where is your choice when you get crashed by a car driven by a drunk *** and get paralyzed ?
There is no *** choice and health care have nothing to do with being a leech of society.
It's about the randomness on how shitty things could happen to you every day.

It's really sad to see some people with such a lack of knowledge arguing over these subjects. Some people really need to evolve and think a little out of the box, instead of repeating all the same worn out clichés, instilled by the 50's brainwashing american propaganda. lol. Seriously :P

I'm really happy for you that you're prepared for any of these things, Terminus, and it's great. It's great you can afford all this, because, you've got a job and can provide help and support to your family. Now, don't forget that you're a very small and privileged part of the world. Because you live in a society that has based its wealth and power on the exploitation of the other part of the world ; on all those people who cannot afford such basic things as food, housing, those who don't have access to jobs, health, security, or whatever.

Don't get it WRONG ! I'm not judging anybody, i hear arguments from everybody no matter what are their beliefs. I just try myself to not forget the reality of my life.

This may be good or bad, time will tell.

However it seems like the majority of Americans were opposed to this and it just gives me this feeling that this administration is going to push people to the point where we will not stand for it, and there will be a revolution of some sort.

here.

I deleted my original post(very quickly after posting it) for a reason. I don't really have an interest in talking about this here - I have fun playing Final Fantasy and would like to continue that. I do wish everyone the best of luck, and we will all have to see how this actually turns out.

Insurance is BS. They Deny their paying clients claims and they deny people who are applying, all for maximizing their profits.

Also the day one of you guys get sick, cant work and need medical care for a Long long period of time. You will be happy to be in Socialized healthcare.

Anyways just wait and see. You might actually like it.

I will be honest, I didn't read all this thread as didn't have time, but what I did read was interesting.

This passing seems to have divided the US posters, some for, some against.

Most of the non-US posters seem to welcome the move, as a lot of them live in countries where this sort of system is already in place (or a more far reaching version thereof).

I find the arguments for and against quite intriguing (at least the ones presented in this thread).

* Most of the ‘against’ arguments revolve around the cost of the system and how it will tax the normal man/business.

* Whereas the ‘for’ argument lies in the humanitarian/social benefits of the system.

Now I can see both sides to this, and one thing I will say is, the financial downsides will be ‘worse’ due to the world economy atm. Some people took the time to construct some decent points of discussion (although some of those points may have been ctrl+C ctrl+V from their preferred news network).

I would like to address the few people that were very ‘violently’ against the system. Those that think it goes against the Constitution or that America has become a lesser country for following basically every other ‘western’ nation.

Firstly, the constitution; it’s important, we get it. But come on now, it was written over 200 years ago now and no matter how smart the authors were, they could not (and did not) consider every aspect of a modern society.

They wrote it in the day when slavery was legal and socially acceptable, when a wife couldn’t accuse her husband of rape (she was his to ‘have’ whenever he wanted), women couldn’t vote etc etc etc.

The world has changed (and is continuing to do so at an increasing rate) since those founding fathers signed it.

I mean we (in the UK) have the Magna Carta (the sort of UK equivalent to the constitution, signed in 1215), which outlines a lot about how the country should be run and a bunch about freedom, and some aspects of it still form the foundations of the laws of our country; but there is also massive chucks that are simply ignored as they are not even close to relevant to the modern world.

Saying the Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves over this is like saying the Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves about equal rights for ethnic groups and women and many, many other things that are taken for granted these days (or not, I’m genuinely not sure based on what some people have posted).

I also get the Capitalism vs Socialism thing; you ‘fought’ Russia in the cold war and you were all taught that Socialism is the route of all even and that any suggestion of socialist views is a sign of physical all emotional weakness. But come on, the cold war is over, and Russia ‘lost’ due to corruption and over-ambition. Not because all socialist ideas were fundamentally flawed. Pure communism is flawed as it doesn’t account for human nature, but that’s not what we are talking about.

The financial argument against this system has some weight, but the American bravado of cheap/free healthcare is for weak countries or against the constitution is just BS. Get your heads out of the sand and in the real, modern world.

Answer me this one question:

Who is going to pay for this?