Health Care Reform Passes

How do you figure the right to life can be jus taken away from you(death penalty excluded)? Rights are something everything has, don't mix them up with privileges.

And do you honestly think people wouldn't fight back if the government took away your Natural Rights?

You know what is funny, if we are so broke. Why are we still giving away foreign aid to other countries around the world. Why are we in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Why did the government have the money to bailout all those large banks/corporations with taxpayers money?

The US Government does not give a dam about the US citizens.

Remember the Patriot Act.

Philosophy is your friend man.. you may find truths in life you did not know.

If anything we are *still* in the dark age. Something like 58% of people believe in astrology. You see.. this is a progress.. As science improved over the ages we learned better ways to solve problems. As philosophy develops it improves everyone life beyond any measure.. for example..

Ever hear of "trial by fire"? At one time.. if you were accused of a crime it was widely accepted and enforced by government that you should be burned horribly by grabbing an iron rod out of a fire. Now, how this proved your innocence or guilt was.. if G*d turned his healing hand away from you then you were guilty.. if you recovered and survived infection you were innocent.

Lucky for us.. philosophy and science caused our reason and logic skills to improve and we came up with better ways of solving problems.

We are *still* backwards.. because I believe one day we will realize that we don't have the power to use force on other people to get them to accept things like this health care bill or the Iraq war..

You have NO RIGHT to force someone to do anything at all, ever.. if you need to use force to get someone to do what you want, your committing an immoral act.

You're right, he just doesn't get it, and apparently has never read the declaration of independance. If this were 1776 he would be amongst those people who would have sided with England.

Idk how I even added pot/kettle/black given as I've been trolling this joke of a thread with joke posters like you =D You haven't contributed anything so yeah.... "pot/kettle/black" etc

ok ya

No I don't think they would..

Why do you suppose free nations in the past have fallen to tyranny? Why do you think people accept Nazism or Communism? Or the Taliban or Saddam? Because no.. they won't fight back.. even in tyranny there are still movies.. still news papers..

It's an endless cycle, and I wouldn't worry too much about it.. you can't fight it. But we can teach each other and learn the truth. Health care already was socialized. The government created the problem in the great depression by first placing wage caps on people (causing business to start offering benefits like health insurance) then later by making it cheaper to get insurance from your work. Now they just ride to the rescue to solve the problem they created.


"Remember the Patriot Act." QFT man! So many good posts. Where is Obama on that ***..? oh right.. hes re-upping it.. ><

The precedents are out there, you'd just have to find them (too lazy to look at the moment). The government can forcibly step in and condemn you to death if they believe it will spare countless other lives. Quarantines and bomb threats are just a couple examples I've read about. It doesn't happen often (or at least you don't hear about it often) but they will step in and pretty much say "Sorry about your luck...".

Omg Airbag, stop leeching the free bandwidth and start paying.

I swear some people don't earn anything...

Careful.. you make it sound like your rights come from paper.

The constitution is a failure... sorry.. it just didn't work. Limited government is a fiction.

iono what youre talking about

Area Man Passionate Defender of What He Imagines the Constitution To Be

(Amusing and completely accurate dig on both sides.)

What about the Hoover Dam?

Okay, okay, seriously...
Actually, no, there's nothing serious about that, it's a nonsequitur and not related to the issue. It doesn't matter why politicians wanted the bill if the end result is still beneficial to US citizens, and it is. Second guessing every political decision as some conspiracy against the population is total paranoia, especially since we still have the electoral process.

The patriot act was an overreaction to a perceived threat and it was motivated by paranoia and enacted by a different administration.

Quit acting like some conspiracy buff teenager. Do you also think flouride in the water is meant to impurify our bodily fluids or that lizard men are secretly controlling a shadow government?

You know, this kind of idiocy is nothing new. People opposed mass vaccinations in the past for the same stupid reasons. I guess polio and smallpox had their fans.

Dude.. they just print the money. There is not a big river of cash under Washington. Every dime they spend means your children will spend longer hours working for government and for the banks and less working for themselves.


Oh yeah.. thought I would add..

Sometimes people *do* fight back.

The press call then nut jobs and the cops go in and shoot them, then they get metals pined on their chests for doing it.

Oh, if that were true then why is Obama continuing to renew it then?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/02/lawmakers-renew-patriot-act/

I love when leftists make the most illogical arguments... they almost sound like conservatives defending Bush.. I wonder why that is.. lol

@Seppoko

my wife and i have also had a few of those "visits" to the hospital. Its amazing that tens of thousands of dollars can be spent when A. u are misdiagnosed B. there is little to no service C. little too no actual merchandise has been used
D. u get things that are not needed/wanted

THIS IS WHY HEALTH CARE COST SO DAMN MUCH, NOT INSURANCE!!!

sorry for caps i think my button got stuck..... but really doctors/hospitals are the biggest scam ever to be invented. there is no reason for 90% of the stuff that is done to cost nearly what they charge.

i have no insurance, i went in for stitch's "waited in lobby for 3hrs, bleeding to death" there was 3 ppl infront of me the whole time, who looked to me and my wife perfectly fine. when i get back to see the NURSE not doctor.. she quickly "whole thing took 5MIN" GLUED yes i said GLUED.. my 5inch gash shut.. 1 month later i get a bill for 500$ FOR 5minutes of a nurse's time and glue, now u tell me whats wrong here.....................

one more since im ranting. wife gets gall bladder taken out. we made oppointment, showed up at hospital the operation literally took 15 minutes, after the operation while i was talking to the nurse, she says they gave 7 more scheduled for that day.. 1 month later i get the bill.... 13k for 15minute's of a doctors time and w/e equipment they used.. lets see 13k X 8ppl = $832,000 they made that day.... and we think we need better insurance!! i think we need to start finding out why the hell they are TAKING THIS MONEY...

and before all u ppl say ohhh the doctors are saving lives and they need that money cause there just so smart and nobody else can do it. u kinda ppl can just shove it right now.

"my wife and i have also had a few of those "visits" to the hospital. Its amazing that tens of thousands of dollars can be spent when A. u are misdiagnosed B. there is little to no service C. little too no actual merchandise has been used
D. u get things that are not needed/wanted"

On that note...

I was 12 years old once and got in a fight with another kid that ended in a broken bone for me. Went to hospital to have bone set. Sat in room for hours waiting for my bone to get set so I could leave. Eventually someone comes in gives me a shot of morphine, says my bone will be set soon. Hour later I get another shot as it hasn't been set yet and the morphine was wearing. Hour later I get my bone set while not under the effects of that morphine anymore. A couple weeks later I see my grandparents' bill on the counter, thousands of dollars to sit in a room getting shots of morphine that wore before they fixed me up >_>

It is still true. At no point did you contradict what I said.
I also disagree with it continuing and think Obama should not have renewed it. It's still a nonsequitur, though, to assume that bad decisions by one administration mean that the government is just an endless parade of boogiemen out to get you, which is the only point I was making. If I made it poorly, I apologize, but I don't think it negates my overall point.

"lol" to you, sir.

I hate it when you read an article from The Onion and don't catch it until like half-way through. lol

This thread is officially crushing my forum spirit, immediately after healthcare was compared to a PS3. lol Has anyone posted a summary of yearly changes ranging from immediate to changes taking place after each following year? I was originally upset about the mandate, but it doesn't seem to be taking place until 2014 and even then it's quite low, rising later in years. Still not thrilled, but it'll depend on what the atmosphere is like at the time to determine how good or bad it is.

To build on this, Republicans need to quit acting like Democrats think Obama is the perfect *** messiah. That ***makes it impossible for the Left to disagree with him for the sake of looking weak and just makes things worse when you suddenly can't criticize your own party because you're too busy defending against all the whacked out *** people pull out of their random-crisis-generators.

Oh really? Government works so well ehh? Just gonna solve all our problems.. hehe.. If ONLY we could just write the right laws right?! rofl.

Name me one government program that had exactly the results that were sold to the people and cost exactly what it stated it would.

.. there must be one.. but I can't think of one.

where was this sentiment when the situation was reversed with bush and the republicans lol

It may not go fully into effect until 2014 but the taxes start now.

so true lol
Prime example of a zombie, guys this is why bills like the HC reform are made and how it is so easy to control us. I just lol when i see people believe in this so called free ecections lol. You do realize you are given people to vote for by their parties example Demorats choose Obama over Hilary Clinton so even if you wanted to have H.Clinton for a president you are not given the option. The people who the government want to take office will be in office period.
If they didn't want Obama in office they could easily hit him with scandle and remove him just like clinton. Its is so easy for a government to control a society. I wonder why people are so fast to laugh at government conspiracy thoeries, maybe because the truth is sacarey and most don't wanna deal. I guess its easier to go along with a zombie mentallity as you know ignorance is blissful. You know the quote "The greatest acheivement the devil did was to convince people he did not exist". The same goes for government and conspiracies. Although most are to scared to admit it but in our hearts we all know this war in iraq and afgan is bs we are invading these countries imposing american ideals and policies in Amaerican interest. We aren't defending ***Lets call it what it is and keep it real. Can any one show me where Iraq or afgan government asked US to come in and remove their current leaders and replace them with new ones who support democracy and american interest come on of course not because they didn't
lol. Wait i guess we were looking for the non existant WOMD
which i guess moved to afgan after they left iraq. lol I'm done here.

Altimaomega


I don't know what cost so much. my initial visit to the ER. I wanted for 2 hours while sweating and feeling like ***in the ER and the doctor could finally see me, she shook my hand said i was burning up, took my temp and swabbed my mouth to find out if it was flu. the whole process took 5 minutes, max. my bill was $370 explain to me what cost that much for me to sit in the chair and see a doctor for 5 minutes.


Something is wrong somewhere. We have been unwilling as a people and as a government to do ANYTHING about it to this point. I dislike this legislation it is full of kickbacks, handouts and garbage... but seriously it is Something and something is always better than nothing. Whether it fixes everything or falls flat on it's face it has gotten the ball rolling. Perhaps we can have input from both sides for when this gets tweaked and adjusted in future votes.

I don't know who your talking about but I don't have a party and I don't want one. I need no rulers and I need no political ideology. I have a personal philosophy that is much deeper and rational than any political ideology.

Using force on others is always wrong. Where as you are free to have the government provide YOU health care if this is what you want, forcing other people, yes adults who HONESTLY DO NOT WANT IT, is wrong. They should be free to do what they like and make their own choices in life, just as you should be able to have the freedom to do the same.
I know YOU personally wouldn't hold a gun to someones head to accept this.. but that is the reality of what you support. Threats and violence by proxy.

We teach our children that Democracy is freedom.. as if somehow a tyrannical majority is better than a tyrannical dictator.

It should be clear.. I mean we have a word that now means "An *oppressed* group of people." that word is minority..