Best Mage

RDM/SCH will be hard to beat at 99

Green mage

The the last two posts, this depends on what new spells drk sch and rdm get beyond 75. Drk will most probably get T3, rdm will most probably get T4, what will SCH get?

SCH might get access to tier V >.> like blm probably would (but im not holding my breath)
Then again I have rdm/blm/sch/blu/drk leveled so im kinda hopin on that just like hoping that blue mage. when i started the game. would be made a playable class which came true >.>;
on a related(yet not so related)
time mage is the best mage eva

oh wait... wut?

ps i hate commas

Probably T5 or at least some of them along with blm.

Probably another strat per art.

Obviously lower recast on strats.

Possible maybe just maybe native MAB or MDB.

Probably regen/rr III.

Maybe Prot/shell V

Maybe higher Tier arts? Like basically same thing but maybe 20% less cost/recast/cast with it up instead of 10%.

Who knows they didn't really talk about sch much so it's all speculation at this point

Why do all the dumb shits like the OP have to be on Hades?
Thank god it's ending.

Cuz all dumb shits go to hell

That was meant as a thought provoking rhetorical question, not an invitation to further derail the thread.

I STILL think bacon mage is the best.

This thread is so stupid

Obviously the best mage is Black Mage because I enjoy playing it the most. Similarly the best melee is thief because it's my favorite. Unfortunately individual results will vary and others may see differently. Individual opinions suck you know. If you don't like what I like best you're wrong (yes that was sarcasm).

Honestly I don't see any mage being "best" because they all have different strengths. I just play the ones I have the most fun with.

my friend Luvbun.... end of story

Proof that SCH > BLM almost everywhere:

There exist only a finite number of events in FFXI. Since the set of events at which BLM > SCH is a subset of all events, it is also finite.

Recall that any finite set is countable. Thus, since every countable set has measure zero, the set of all events at which BLM > SCH has measure zero.

By definition, we conclude that SCH > BLM almost everywhere.

QED

I'm no maths guru, but I'm pretty sure your logic fails.

I feel so sorry for gilga.

Prove it.

First of, the buffs of a rdm are effective indeed tho the way a rdm has to buff is far from being that - it is a goddamn waste of time because everything is simply single target (pro IV, shell IV, haste, refresh, phalanx II - this is where the list stops aswell). In terms of healing RDM is ok. With Phalanx- and Stoneskinga the amount of healing is reduced greatly and even if a lot needs to be healed A SCH doesnt have much problem with it at all.

Second, a SCH is a defensive buffer, not an offensive one (this is what most ppl get wrong even if it is obvious - having enspells doesnt give you the title of an offensive buffer) and perform in that part better to a non-compareable amount in efficiency, enmity and mp-ratio than RDM - this is not argueable.

is this a pro or a contra? besides sleepga being the only AoE atm RDM is pretty much useless in CCing a lot of mobs, i still cant believe ls's set rdm on pure sleepga duty when i even know BLU/SCHs that perform better and have superior tools at hand, aswell as RDM could be used better elsewhere. SCH may be tied to Strategems, RDM tho is still limited to the recast timer even with full fast cast - he is simply not able to apply for example gravity on 5 mobs in a fast period of time without his 2hr (just an example to point it out - the situation itself occurs rarely).

SCH can easily reach 43% fast cast by gear for white and black magic (excluding ninjutsu). I dont see your point rly. If you consider that SCH can even cut down time and pressure by simply -againg the difference is rly minimalistic to even mention it. Or what situation did you have in mind?

I fixed that for you and refer to this thread were ppl already pointed everything out:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?fjob=20&mid=126322235252436694&page=1&howmany=50#m1263255878297438350

The fact that you could apply the same argument in reverse and get BLM > SCH almost anywhere is a pretty good hint. I'm rusty on set theory, but your fallacy was a gross misuse of zero measure.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you on this point. If enspells are considered a defensive buff, what would be offensive? Knowing that Enspells more than double a THF/MNK/NIN/DNC/PUP/BLU's damage output over time on higher-DEF mobs sounds pretty offensive for me.

It's not as if I didn't think of that, but that doesn't make my proof wrong. I've just taken "almost everywhere" a little out of context.

enspells, while surely making an impact offensively doesnt change the overall defensive style on SCH. The spell itself is definetly offensive - your 200% right, overall a buffing SCH is more leaned defensively, because unless you supply your party with +7 STR from storms at 75 there is where it ends.

Personally (still opinions) i see enspell more as a nice-to-have, it is very usefull indeed and should not be skipped, tho it is not in my total focus when im taking care of my party with stonesking, phalanx, cures etc.. There are times when cycling theese buffs that WILL let you run out of stratagems - there is where i personally skip enspells for the other buffs and i think im not different than most SCHs in this way (at least i hope lol).

Again, RDM provides irreplaceable buffs. By the time you've got enough RDMs and WHMs in the alliance to cover buffs, you've probably got all the healing you need. If you need more, odds are it's more efficient to get it from a BRD/WHM, a DNC, etc. I'm not arguing that RDM is a more efficient healer than a SCH, only that the healing power SCH provides is often superfluous in a properly supported group.
Oh I know. MP efficiency kind of falls by the wayside when your cures are largely unneeded though. Also, the best defense is a good offense - see Haste again.
Con, if you run out of stratagems for whatever reason you have no CC. Sleepga's all you need in most situations; I addressed SCH's advantages in the other situations already. BLU is fantastic CC situationally, especially Einherjar (where SCH also shines and RDM doesn't, as mentioned previously). Recast timer also applies to SCH, your Grav example applies in situations we already agree on.
Anything you'd have the choice of RDM or SCH for calls for -aga'd CC, so that's not actually a factor. RDM's superior innate FC increases survival when you need to cast in SID/PDT due to CC under fire. Not always a factor, but the moment it comes up and your SCH hits the dirt you'll wish you'd brought a RDM instead.

Also, RDM hits 42% without /SCH. Not much of a difference, if any.
Sure, both when you can. That's not what we were discussing though, we were talking about the relative merit of using a stratagem charge to AoE each spell.

Also, the quoted thread does nothing to actually evaluate the efficiency of either spell. In large-scale situations where hate is bouncing among a large number of DDs (Dyna, Ein), I'll agree that Stoneskinga probably wins after a second look simply because of how much aggregate HP you're saving assuming the majority of those -aga'd take a hit. Phalanxga on the other hand has an advantage in efficiency per charge in lowman situations where there's only a few DD and Stoneskin is gone very quickly.

What you just said there is if x is the number of events in the game, B is the number of events in which BLM is superior and S is the number of events in which SCH is superior and one or the other is better in each situation, then B + S = x, which is common sense worded to be confusing so you look smart. You did that so that you could tack something on the end that has no relation to the rest of your "logical arguement" and no one would (or maybe you actually thought "could"?) contradict you. The fact that you can count the value of B or S and that each is a subset of x does not mean that B < S.

What you did not say there was anything having to do with actual numbers. In fact, while the BLM side of the arguement has shown formula and calculated the best case scenario for a SCH T4 and shown that to be inferior to what you claimed to be able to beat, a well geared BLM's AM2, the SCH side of the arguement has only shown one screen shot which actually conformed to the predictions offered by the BLM side.

I'd like to point out here that you, Nezea, are the one who made the claim that you can outnuke an AM2. No one asked you if you were able to. As is the rule of thumb with braggarts if you make a claim and get called out on it you can either prove it or go away. I think its hillarious that you're taking the time to not only keep up with this thread but regularly respond to it and still claim that you're not willing to invest the time to warp out to Halvung, walk for five minutes, and cast a nuke.

When I first saw your claim I was a little dubious, but curious. Judging by your resistance to offer any proof to support your claim while still doggedly defending it, I am sorry but you truely just look like a liar.

I, like many before me, call BS.
-------------------------------------------- And now back to the subject of the thread.

IMO the usefulness of mages goes like so; RDM > SCH > WHM > BLM (sorry guys, only good for packing a punch and sleeping stuff if your enfeeb is merrited). Swap the SCH and WHM if the WHM is /SCH. SCH has some nifty tools but you really just don't need mass crowd control that often. The buffs are nice, though.

That being said, I've actually found myself hurting specificly for BLMs for events more often than I've found myself hurting for any other mage except a generic healer. I guess sometimes you really need that mojo punch.

I have yet to see a BLM in a merit group that wasn't a mana burn. Obviously people regard them as useless after 60 or so for XP, but everyone wants a few for endgame.

I see.

None of the blm screenshots show whether or not the blm critted the spell with witch's sash or not >_>; and really neither one of you are nuking in the best BLM has to offer.

BLM can still put out better numbers of stuff like tia due to accuracy and consistency anyway, e-peening at flans really doesn't prove a thing. Even though I highly doubt I'll be getting out done by a sch at flans on at any rate. But still BLM can get higher elemental skill + access to more skill gear and higher int and more mab gear... its pretty obvious which one is better at nuking.

None of the schs were even willing to show what buffs they had lol

And SCH has Klimaform which is up about 75% of the time for a bonus ~50 MACC. Of course, it more than makes up for the small loss in Elemental skill.

which in turns dedicates you to one element, theres always a trade off.