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Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
 Seraph.Zoey
Serveur: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 101
By Seraph.Zoey 2010-03-20 15:46:31
Asura.Ludoggy said: It seems to me that Atheists like to shove their beliefs in my face more often then someone belonging to a religion. Maybe its because I dont live right next to a bunch of Jehovah witnesses. Or maybe religious people just arent *** naturally like all these atheists I meet.
The way this person responded says it all. So many religious people really feel that only they (given religious order) are the only good ones and all else are evil, bad, or in this posters words "***" ... "naturally" ... lol
I find it comical when a religious zeolot thinks that when someone has not subscribed to thier or another religion that makes a person athiest.
Athiesm is a system of beliefs, or belief on a contrary. To me it is just another form a thought guiding scripture.
When I was in college and I was told to write a paper on religion, my personal view was given that churches are good because some people are too damn stupid to figure out morals on thier own.
No, If someone has religion than more power too them. No one can really *** or complain about someone trying to be pure or morally well. The moral life is a good one no matter which way you shake it.
Now if we get all bitching about "what the church did" thats all in the past. The reason the churches seem so peacefull now is because of pragmatic people who think in terms of NOW and face injustice. It wasn't the church that changed to church. Most religious critics worry about the past while religous folk seem to worry alot about the supposed comming ascension for them and rapture of ones they hate.
Either way if you are a religious zealot or a anti religious zealot it is my view that you are wasting your time pining on what one sees as the shortfall of the other.
Just worry about yourselves and how you can improve your own self and perhaps feelings will improve. This biggest crime of humans are the lack of self reflection and willingness for compasionate thought.
imo
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Seraph.Zoey
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Posts: 101
By Seraph.Zoey 2010-03-20 16:32:04
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: I think the Texas Board of Education changes is a prime example of why everyone should care a bit about others religion. Not because it is important what they believe, but if you do not care about what they are putting out there then it will reach your door step. This is why the separation between church and state was put into the constitution. What another individuals religion is does not matter, but when they are affecting others lives by going off religious decisions it means you have to care. You can tell people who are against something like abortion or are for putting the ten commandments in a courthouse are not doing it because they thought about it. They were raised to believe it so their "thinking about it" is unknowingly using their christian values that were drilled into their heads growing up. Why do we need to say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance? Why does the money need the word god on it? Why do we need to make decisions based on religion instead of logic? Well, we do not need to is all that matters, that is why people care. I never stood for the pledge of allegiance in school, and you are ridiculed and harassed and threatened for it. Not to mention you get told you hate America and need to live somewhere else obviously. All over me knowing it is unconstitutional, and if I was an atheist (I am not even christian so it is annoying anyway) I would honestly wish to remove this needless god flaunting from my life. What do you think about god being on the money? Do you sit there and say "oh I am one of them, right on" or do you say "hey look the christian majority is showing off how they think they are superior."? Perhaps you think something else or just do not care because only your life matters in your own world. For those of you who do not know about the Texas schooling changes, it includes things such as the revolution was christian, the founding fathers were christian, replacing Jefferson with John Calvin, and alot of other non religious backwards things like teaching that JP interment in WW2 was not racial at all, and that McCarthey was correct about the communist being everywhere....
It's not that I only care about my own world, more that I am not against any one other persons. Even if they are part of a religious institution that dominates the society I reside in.
Yea the Texas Board school book thing is a sham. It has been going on for a very long time. Still I think that the only way to change it is to either take over the country yourself and be a dictator lol, or vote for people that aren't religious fundamentalists. The leader of the board of education in Texas is a chirstian fundamentalist.
I remember being in the 8th grade and the first day of History class. My teacher, and ex army cptn., read a passage from that History book and then tossed it in the trash. He said "this is why we won't be using this textbook".
The pasasage he read said that General George Washington fought the Indians and after battle combed bullets out of his hair. I'm serious, it said that. So instead of readin about slavery from that crooked history book we watched Roots for example. I loved that teacher.
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By Garuda.Aurilius 2010-03-20 16:47:57
OP look here moron. An "ism" is a belief. By the very use of the add-on "ism" to a word, you are equating it with a belief.
Atheism is the belief that there is no God. You're entitled to that belief. But the word Atheism is in fact a belief. If you don't want it to be a belief in something, make up a new word.
The person that actually coined the term Atheism is a moron and should have been shot for his misuse of english.
In conclusion, shut up.
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Serveur: Remora
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By Remora.Morbidthrasher 2010-03-20 16:51:46
Aside from all the other things people stated here, I hate god damn preachers. Some people (a very, very small amount)are cool when you tell them you're not interested and they'll leave you be, but a majority pester the life out of you till you let them read you something from their stupid book. Forcing belief down another persons throat, even with 'good' intention is just ridiculous.
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Carbuncle.Zanno
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By Carbuncle.Zanno 2010-03-20 17:00:43
Well, nothing is really keeping us non-believers from making flyers and go from door to door and force them down peoples throats. Actually, that would probably be kinda funny to try sometime, just to see the reaction of people.
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By Remora.Morbidthrasher 2010-03-20 17:03:39
Well yeah, I'm not saying a non-religious person doesn't have as much authority or right to go around preaching their beliefs to others. But to be honest, I've had at least a dozen people insist on preaching their bible to me against my will (once on my work break during a long day >:/) and not so many non-religious people, lol >.>
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2010-03-20 17:15:04
What I've noticed(this is mainly on the internet) is that many atheists seem to argue for the sake of argument. Of course, I don't like religious extremists trying to convert me to their beliefs.
But I have a lot less to do with those situations than with atheists that seem to be atheists for the sake of argument and opposition.
A lot of atheists also think they're superior which makes a lot of discussions and arguments have nasty edges.
GIF UNRELATED:
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 Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
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By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2010-03-20 17:24:15
Gilgamesh.Andras said: Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra said: Gilgamesh.Andras said: believing isnt a choice? O_O I never chose to believe or not to believe. That's the whole definition of believing and religion.
Its a choice >.> Sure. Because you said it's a choice, it must be.
Oh wait, using that logic, I'm right, too. Funny how that works.
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2010-03-20 17:27:21
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Thinking one is superior has nothing to do with ones religion it is really how the persons thought process works and how big of an ego they have.
I'm talking about how the discussions between religious people and atheists go.
These discussions are pointless and only end up in flaming since the two groups never discuss on equal ground.
There is always the "I'm right, you're wrong and there is no way I will ever believe in your ***" aspect.
 Caitsith.Markus
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By Caitsith.Markus 2010-03-20 17:29:26
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Ramuh.Mairah
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By Ramuh.Mairah 2010-03-20 17:44:53
Sylph.Beelshamen said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Thinking one is superior has nothing to do with ones religion it is really how the persons thought process works and how big of an ego they have.
I'm talking about how the discussions between religious people and atheists go.
These discussions are pointless and only end up in flaming since the two groups never discuss on equal ground.
There is always the "I'm right, you're wrong and there is no way I will ever believe in your ***" aspect.
Thats not even just Atheists VS. Religious people. I know a lot of Christians who have the same attitude towards people of other religions. Its always the same thing "I'm right, your wrong, and I won't listen to one damn thing you have to say no matter how much sense it makes." Even if you're accepting of their beliefs, they still have to make it their business to inform you that you're wrong and then berate you about it until you either agree with them or piss them off so much they just end up cutting off contact with you all together.
Carbuncle.Xandor
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By Carbuncle.Xandor 2010-03-20 17:55:21
You can't really prove that there isnt a god. But you cant prove there isnt a bunch of gods either. Every single religion is convinced that their god(s) is the one(s). So, if every religion is right (because this is what they believe) then we have a problem. That would be 1 schizophrenic god.
It's just alot easier to not believe at all. Just think of all the horrors a schizophrenic god could bring on us?
On a serious note though, it is easier to not believe imo. You know you work and you get rewarded for that work. You know you did that work with your own hands. You know that if you *** up in life, one way or another you will most likely have to pay for it in way way or another. Life and society isnt very forgiving when it comes to ***. And believing in a god does not make this life easier.
Maybe it'll make some people feel a little bit better about themselves if they pray to their god to forgive their ***, but that wont really make a difference in a court. I'd rather just focus on this life, in this life and worry about the afterlife (if there is one) when that time comes. Don't make sense to me to spend this life worrying about what will happen when i die, what if this is it? what if nothing happens when you die? If you just rot and become soil? Then what? Then you have just spent you one and only life worrying about something that was completely unnessesary to worry about.
Besides, if there really is a god, then he'll forgive me when time comes anyway, coz thats his job.
/rant off
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Gilgamesh.Tirantus
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By Gilgamesh.Tirantus 2010-03-21 11:20:37
While I didn't read EVERY post on this thread. I think another angle that a lot of people never consider is the personal psychological and subconscious impacts religion and beliefs can have on an individual.
I think Randy Blythe of the band Lamb of God nailed one of the worst offenses IMO religion has imprinted on people in one of their songs. "This God that I worship, this demon I blame, conspire as one. Exactly the same, it's exactly the same."
With religion (Christianity in particular) we conveniently have something to blame every time something goes wrong, and we have something to praise and thank every time something goes right. When you do this you are alleviating all responsibility from yourself. You are adhering to the notion that it happened because God wanted it to. Not because YOU put in the effort and succeeded, or failed because YOU didn't try hard enough.
In short, religion kills the Self. Which is what I believe in. The idea that each individual should strive to be the best they possibly can, to reach their goals without being held down by petty and subjective morality. That the only limit to achievement is the limit you impose on yourself.
To me morality and religion just make us feel guilty for wanting to be more than what we currently are, and for being okay with the cost.
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Seraph.Dreakon
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By Seraph.Dreakon 2010-03-21 12:11:57
Sylph.Beelshamen said: A lot of atheists also think they're superior which makes a lot of discussions and arguments have nasty edges.
That's because we are.
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Unicorn.Ducea
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By Unicorn.Ducea 2010-03-21 12:23:23
to each their own, some find comfort in god, some take it to far and become hypocrites. but being raised catholic and no longer being one all I can say is... anyone want to buy the brooklyn bridge? religious beliefs are based on the word of a human. if you believe anything people tell you, religion is the least of your problems
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By Shiva.Xellith 2010-03-21 12:41:12
Its not up for atheists to prove there isn't a god. Its up to the religious to prove there IS a god.
A christian saying that there was a guy who died and came back to life after being crucified has just as much credibility as my brother saying that he saw a pig flying in the sky.
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Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-03-21 12:46:35
The only thing that bothers me is people who have the most ridiculous and dubious of beliefs are the ones who are most certain of it. This works both ways and applies to everyone.
I think the point of being human is to find the truth for ourselves. Our method of doing so is science. While faith is an equally powerful tool, that really only applies to the individual at hand rather than everyone. Kinda like that cutscene in the San d'Oria missions saying it was wrong to impose a belief system upon the masses and take brash courses of action with dire consequences in the name of something that should only exist in your heart.
I am a man of science, not faith. Just opposite end of the spectrum, not necessarily the "right" or "wrong" end. Similar to yin and yang I suppose. Equally important, powerful and essential, simply the opposing ends that bring balance to life.
TLDR: If religion (or lack of) empowers you, then more power to you. Just don't alienate people that don't follow your lead.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-03-21 13:11:20
Shiva.Xellith said: Its not up for atheists to prove there isn't a god. Its up to the religious to prove there IS a god.
A christian saying that there was a guy who died and came back to life after being crucified has just as much credibility as my brother saying that he saw a pig flying in the sky.
Wrong. The burden of proof belongs to whoever is trying to do the convincing.
If your a religious person that is claiming to someone else that your way is the "correct" way then it is on you to prove it.
But the same applies to Atheists who claim that any belief in the supernatural is nothing but imaginations and a "crutch" for weak minded people.
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By Fairy.Vylandra 2010-03-21 13:16:48
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Shiva.Xellith said: Its not up for atheists to prove there isn't a god. Its up to the religious to prove there IS a god.
A christian saying that there was a guy who died and came back to life after being crucified has just as much credibility as my brother saying that he saw a pig flying in the sky.
Wrong. The burden of proof belongs to whoever is trying to do the convincing.
If your a religious person that is claiming to someone else that your way is the "correct" way then it is on you to prove it.
But the same applies to Atheists who claim that any belief in the supernatural is nothing but imaginations and a "crutch" for weak minded people.
No, the burden of proof belong to the person who has something to prove. The last statement you said probably makes the least sense of anything anyone has said here. Why would atheists have to prove that something that hasn't been proven to exist in any way doesn't exist? It sounds like you're just arguing because you felt left out of the situation or something; that was just ignorant.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-03-21 13:23:04
Fairy.Vylandra said: Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Shiva.Xellith said: Its not up for atheists to prove there isn't a god. Its up to the religious to prove there IS a god.
A christian saying that there was a guy who died and came back to life after being crucified has just as much credibility as my brother saying that he saw a pig flying in the sky.
Wrong. The burden of proof belongs to whoever is trying to do the convincing.
If your a religious person that is claiming to someone else that your way is the "correct" way then it is on you to prove it.
But the same applies to Atheists who claim that any belief in the supernatural is nothing but imaginations and a "crutch" for weak minded people. The last statement you said probably makes the least sense of anything anyone has said here. Why would atheists have to prove that something that hasn't been proven to exist in any way doesn't exist? It sounds like you're just arguing because you felt left out of the situation or something; that was just ignorant.
You can't read? That's what I just said.
And no, it's not ignorant to place the burden of proof on the Atheist when they are trying to tell someone that their beliefs are made-up nonsense.
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Serveur: Remora
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By Remora.Hackstealandbot 2010-03-21 13:52:35
"Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?"
because people that do are in charge of countries with armies
Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-03-21 13:53:33
Remora.Hackstealandbot said: "Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?"
because people that do are in charge of countries with armies
This. A thousand times, this.
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By Hades.Dizzmal 2010-03-21 16:28:14
Crap, another one of these threads. Why is there always ,no matter which way they believe, someone has to try to push their beliefs onto someone that doesn't think the same that they do? Why can people just let each other belive what they want to believe?
Aethiest,Christain,Buddist,Islamic,Jewish.. etc .. ***just worry about yourself. As much as I see on these forums about how much Christians harrass people that doesn't believe the same as they do, has anyone noticed how many "Your all going to hell!!" Posts there is on this board? My search skills my fail me, but I haven't seen one yet. I understand that there are some religous people that keep beating a dead horse, but the door swings both ways. Christains are constantly harrassed that they are stupid because they believe that there is a god. I work with an Aethiest that is constantly trying to pick fights with people that do have a religous background. What I find funny is that it's not just christains. He also attacks the muslim and a jewish person. It's not just religous people that do the stuffing down your throat thing.
On a side note.. Does anyone else find it funny that Aethiest, people that doesn't belive in a god, says God Damn? ... I mean if they don't believe what is there to damn?
Carbuncle.Zanno
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By Carbuncle.Zanno 2010-03-21 16:36:17
I can only speak for myself. But I do think it's funny with people who believe in god(s). Simply because to me it's the same as if people believe in monsters, boogey man, tooth fairy or whatever crap storys people grow up with.
Can you seriously say you wouldnt laugh if an adult and in every other way intelligent human beeing told you they believe the tooth fairy is real? Get all pissed off if you dont believe, go from door to door with flyers about the tooth fairy. And go as far as to start wars because other pepole dont believe in tooth fairy.
Well, you get my point.
"You cant prove there's no tooth fairy!"
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By Shiva.Xellith 2010-03-21 16:36:33
Hades.Dizzmal said: Crap, another one of these threads. Why is there always ,no matter which way they believe, someone has to try to push their beliefs onto someone that doesn't think the same that they do? Why can people just let each other belive what they want to believe?
Aethiest,Christain,Buddist,Islamic,Jewish.. etc .. ***just worry about yourself. As much as I see on these forums about how much Christians harrass people that doesn't believe the same as they do, has anyone noticed how many "Your all going to hell!!" Posts there is on this board? My search skills my fail me, but I haven't seen one yet. I understand that there are some religous people that keep beating a dead horse, but the door swings both ways. Christains are constantly harrassed that they are stupid because they believe that there is a god. I work with an Aethiest that is constantly trying to pick fights with people that do have a religous background. What I find funny is that it's not just christains. He also attacks the muslim and a jewish person. It's not just religous people that do the stuffing down your throat thing.
On a side note.. Does anyone else find it funny that Aethiest, people that doesn't belive in a god, says God Damn? ... I mean if they don't believe what is there to damn?
athists generally use FACTS and not FAITH to make a point. I mean a religious person can talk all they want as long as they don't say its 100% undeniable fact and truth which has never been proven. I mean they should put a notice on the front of every religious text saying "This is a story that is true but has no evidence to back it up".
And atheists don't push their beliefs on other people. They use facts and figures which have been tried tested and peer reviewed. Its ignorant people who believe what they want to believe even though its been proven to be wrong or is completely absurd.
Although im not saying that ALL atheists are smart and use facts and figured. A lot are ignorant themselves and can be pretty HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE - but this is found in every demographic.
Because it affects my life. That's the reason it bothers me. I wish for the demise of several organizations that I feel are destructive to me, my family, my friends and human evolution in general. Almost all countries in the world are ruled by religious people who, more than often, base their decisions on outdated beliefs rather than secular moral standards such as basic human rights, global awareness, tolerance towards difference and a genuine pursuit of peace.
That, my friend, is anything but reassuring.
Rationalists, those who chose, out of simple logic, not to believe in something supernatural, need to state their opinion, proudly and coherently. They need to have a place in society and politics, to be heard and to at least have a word on what the future's going to look like. Something as serious as the occupation of Iraq (close to 100000 have died in it) could probably have been avoided. If it wasn't for the fact that so many US voters based their vote on Bush's claim to have strong religious beliefs, rather than nonviolent ideologies, less people would be dead today.
Beliefs keep us from evolving because of what they are: Suppositions that were turned into artificial facts by irrational, although well intentioned people. The scientific approach goes in contradiction with the religious approach. I will show you that I have a baseball to prove that I own one. Instead, a religious person will dare you to prove that he doesn't have a baseball and your failing to demonstrate that he doesn't own one will make him feel justified.
Doubt, the very basis of knowledge: Doubt is the only way to keep our mind from falling into what I like to describe as "lazy mode". Doubt requires constant re-questioning of our assumptions and becomes harder as we grow old. We have to constantly remind ourselves that what we think we know... might be wrong.
Religions fundamentally discourage questioning; even when they pretend to do, they do it in a hypocritical way that discourages questioning even the relevance of believing. Oppositely, Science has, over the centuries, been re-evaluated from scratch, in the noble attempt to find some provable truths. Small truths, yes, but significant ones. The first scientists obviously believed in God; now, most don't.
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