Religion: If You Don't Believe In It Why Does It Bother You?

I never specified what counts as incomprehensible or what is comprehended or not. We might be totally in the dark as far as knowledge is concerned. However, if we don't have any kind of comprehension regarding our comprehension of creation and existence, we might as well not make any claims on the matter! It might be better to be a bit arrogant and assume we have some kind of empirical experience upon which to base our knowledge than to disregard intellectual pursuit!

This

Bumping my edit. Always seem to get the last post of the page ._.

Oh and thought this was worth bumping...

I don't have too much time to post before going to sleep, but here goes.

Maruraba, I see your perspective about speech style, so I will adapt it accordingly. In the future, however, it's important to pursue the heart of what's being said, and looking past the veneer of how it is said. Don't judge a book by its cover, basically. It's understandable to do, however, because many times the cover is indicative of the underlying reality. Just be careful of becoming jaded.

The point about beliefs makes sense to me only because there is no directly appropriate words for the kinds of beliefs I'm talking about. That's because often people think of beliefs as a middle ground between the truth and uncertainty. "I believe X" most often means that "I am mostly certain of X, and that certainty is important to me." What people tend to do, however, is, out of mostly selfishness, let the importance to them overshadow the ability to judge the truth or uncertainty of the belief fairly. In this way, all beliefs are false, because "believing" involves bias against looking for the truth.

Those who pursue the truth behind their beliefs remove the condition of their own reliance on that belief overshadowing whether or not the belief is the case. These kinds of beliefs, that are in flux, are not necessarily false - they can be proved true, or they can be proved false. At that time they are not beliefs in the sense I have been talking about, but rather, much closer to questions.

So the statement "All beliefs are false." is meant for those beliefs that are important to you. People are tricking themselves in this case, because if the truth was important, those beliefs would transform into questions instead. In such a way, beliefs and truth are opposites. It may be better to think of it as the action of believing as being false. And the better response to the impulse of believing is instead to question.

This does not imply skepticism, which puts up barriers, but rather exploration without the borders of your ego intervening.

When going to the movies, for instance, we often "suspend our disbelief" and accept what's going on as a sort of reality for a time. But, in the end, we close off that world while still considering its implications and reality beneath the surface. People who completely regarded movies as reality would be essentially trapped by what they chose to believe, and have a difficult time getting out of it.

A somewhat puzzling counter-example comes up in the movie Star Wars (IV), where near the end Luke hears Obi-wan's voice tell him "Use the Force, Luke", at which point he points away his computer, puts his trust in the force, and blows away the Death Star.

But this less about believing falsely than it is a jump into the unknown. Luke wasn't suddenly believing some fairy tale he heard, but came to a realization that connected his training in the Force to his immediate reality (spurred on by Obi-wan), and so, his belief was more like the question "Can I just use the Force here?" His answer, "Yes.", was a realization of the Force's importance - a knowledge gained from the inside-out, rather than trusting data collected by an external device.

In later movies, Luke does indeed begin to inquire into and learn the nature of the force, so his initiation wasn't in vain, as he remained willing to understand and question.

To use an extended example, the "Dark side" often viewed their use of the force as making them superior to all others. In such a way the power of the belief (Force) has been usurped by the ego (Dark side). As such, the desire for the belief corrupts whatever truth was in it. Those unwilling to consider the belief are also false because they afraid of reaching into that unknown and out of the safe zone they are comfortable with. Only the "Light side" knows the truth that is behind mere belief, and can accept it without contempt for others or pride.

This is with the obvious caveat that movies are not necessarily totally truthful. But they can reveal certain ideas more easily than abstract language, so the above may be a little off in terms of interpretation from the movie, but the illustration suffices.

Beliefs as I would like to distinguish them, have importance to the individual, that is to say, to the individual's ego, so are false. Truth seekers seek truth, and while some people may believe true things, all believing is ultimately false.


Labels are another issue, and at the same time related via the ego. It absolutely matters the spirit in which labels are held. So for you, as long as those are ways of describing your beliefs, and not a sign of association with others, then that's not necessarily a bad thing. As soon as bias towards those who describe themselves the same way appears, then it becomes a force for ill. It is a similarly slippery slope when I say "I am a truth seeker", so it is imperative to limit thinking in those "I" terms. Here, I only used it as a way of describing that which can't be categorized, but can only be described in terms of motion. The importance of that mode of being should be apparent without the fact of me claiming to take part in it, as with it, the importance is not fully being grasped at all.

That's as far as it goes tonight. Goodnight everyone. :)

Alas, this is ultimately how I feel about humans and humanity along with religion/culture etc.

Um... Racism has absolutely NOTHING in common with religion. That's like me saying, "What if atheists love to randomly stab people in the face?" The two have nothing to do with each other, and you look like an idiot for suggesting something so insane. By the way, in case anyone misunderstands me, I don't think that Atheists or Christians are usually racist or like stabbing people. You will find moronic racists, murderers, and stupid people, regardless of what religious status or culture you look at.

I believe in religion here, however they're things i don't like what they say in religion. I'm the type of person that once to see the facts before I follow towards religion because I don't trust in "Man" and his ways. After i went to college and took a History class that changed alot of my believing habits. We all know the "Telephone" game..and the Bible is one powerful *** book and alot of people follow it. So how do you know if some of the things is what God put or what a man put for you to follow his ways? The answer you don't know! aww foogles huh? thats why i'm a believer but not in everything it says. And if i do die I'd rather get the truth told to me by god/jesus himself it is the only person i will bow down to a follow.

I'm bored.

Whoa you found the missing link!!!!!

If He wanted each and every one of us humans to worship him, He wouldn't have given us free will.

He is an All-Knowing, Omni-Potent being. He knew we wouldn't all obey Him. He knew Satan would trick Eve and she'd convince Adam to eat from the tree.

He was practically begging for it to happen when He said "See this awesome tree? Don't eat from it, or I'll punish you and all of your descendants forever." Why did He create it? There was absolutely no reason for Him to poof it into existance.

He knew Job would stay faithful, and yet He still let Satan tear this guy apart.

As Spicryryan said; The illusion that we have a choice is not love.

Humans are His adorable little meat puppets and He is just royally *** with us. Well, if He exists, that is.

Bleh, I came off alot more ***-ish than I intended. Oh well~

With all these doubts flying by and around, and many choices, Dr. Mc. Coy certianly raises a good thoery....



Planet Eden Star Trek V

Did you even read the entire post?

I did. And honestly? Who cares if God lets you be spiritually near Him? Who cares if He lets you "feel" Him?

I'd rather have my family not murdered, my health and my general life not ruined, just to prove some Omni-Potent beings point, thanks.

EDIT: Then again, I suppose wanting to "feel" God is the whole point of religion. Oh well. I see no value in such a feeling.

Maybe I should put it in bold and capitalize so you understand my point.

It bothers me because the AFFECTS of religion are everywhere.

Now...look at my example.

Say everyone that believed in religion also believed in white supremacy. Would that bother you?

Now...finish my example.

I bet it would.

If you are going to quote me do it in entirety to everyone knows what was said. Also, please let me know if you need further explanation with my example. I would hate for you to not read the entire thing and automatically equate religion and white supremacy. Oh wait...

if you're gonna bold AND capitalize it you could at least use the correct word there

effects

Actually, you sir are incorrect. To affect is to have an influence on. An effect is the result of an action or cause.

But continue please. I am enjoying the debate.

so

A. the {have an influence on}'s of religion are everywhere

or

B. the {results} of religion are everywhere


which of these sentences make sense

The overall book doesn't contradict itself no, that would be incredibly stupid, but the book is riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies, and like they say, after all- the devil is in the details.

Except all those people that have never heard of the Judeo-Christian God, or given the choice; they get to go to Hell. Or Sheol. Or Limbo.


It sure is.




From God. He created the Morningstar, knowing of his eventual fall. Also regarding Original Sin, what makes us sinners the moment we come into being:

I think that was already addressed earlier, LD--we've already gone over the point that the "effects of religion," being in reality the actions of human decision and religion itself are mutually exclusive. Each person is ultimately responsible for their own decisions.

(It's "effects." "Affect" is very rarely used as a noun--singular or plural.)

Internet police I am sooo sorry that you misunderstand my intended usage. Please forgive me by actually reading and commenting on my post rather than nit-picking my word usage.

At least add to the conversation geez.

Now if you said something along the lines of religion is great because I see nothing wrong with the way the country is run (by a majority of Christians btw) then we can have a little debate.

Edit: Anye this was not intended for you.

this^^

but you seemed so eager to argue it before you realized you were wrong :(


as for the religious issue, your logic is flawed enough on the surface that it really isn't worth taking the time to deconstruct

i already made my feelings clear as far as debating religion itself in an earlier post on this thread

This is my intended use.

RELIGION AFFECTS THE POPULATION.

seriously. Get off it.

i'm glad we've learned something today^^

I'm not responding to the other points because they've been answered within the context of the quote from which you've taken them.

As for this, I'm honestly only aware of a few verses regarding this subject:

Despite the verses not pertaining to the subject, I'll state again what was mentioned earlier: According to the Bible, Christ took care of the sins of the world.So the choice is left to those to whom it has been given. If it hasn't, then that's outside of our jurisdiction, but completely within God's--possibly explains the reason why it's not addressed in the Bible very frequently, as it doesn't pertain to God's will through us, but through himself alone.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_funeral_protests

People disgust me.