Religion: If You Don't Believe In It Why Does It Bother You?

LMFAO then thats one tricky dude. Remeber iM the nutjob who sees thats it statistically more probable that we were seeded by an alien race than to have evolved from a single cell organism. But where did the aliens come from? If there is a god who amde him. Where did all the material to fuel the bigbang come from and who or what created that or what bang preceeede that. Im confused now but at least questions like that fuel the minds of people all over the globe in what hopefully leads to great advancemnets in all areas of science.

Aw, thanks!

Actually, evolution can be explained very simply as this: new species arise from other species.

If you feel like reading it, the Short Proof of Evolution is found here. But if you want the abridged version, it goes like this:
-There are fossils of species in older layers of sediment (rock).
-These species disappear in later sediments, where we find new species with new biological features.
-Since an organism must come from other organisms, it is logical to conclude that newer species arise from previous species (evolution).

That's really about it. The alternative is that species poofed out of existence and whole new species with increasing variety just poofed in their place (spontaneous creation). Since we can see organisms give birth and see how traits can be inherited, but we have never seen a large, complex animal, wholly formed, just poof onto the scene, it is silly to believe spontaneous creation, poofing, is the origin of species.

It has nothing to do with the origin of life or the universe. It is just about where different creatures came from. :)

If biblical creationism was literally correct, then all species would appear uniformly in the sediment. They do not. If we start finding fossils in really weird places, that'll be a different story, but until then, evolution explains it like nothing else does.

As for the dome thing, basically it's that the earth is not a closed system while a dome is, and again, that would be about the origin of life, not species. Apples and oranges. But thanks for leaving spaces anyway!

Haha still doesnt disprove that at least humans could have been dropped offffffffff by aliens or inbreeding with the closest form to humans. But then again guess we would find alien skulls somewhwre unless they are the same as ours;)

OMG the title short si appropriate. And I like the part about aliens.

I come back to the forums to see this?

THIS?

Maru, you're doing awesome bro, but... damn.

Hence another theory to look into, please see DARWIN'S THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

more food for thought.

/nod

Ya I just saw, and not like I needed to see or read anything regarding a Mangina either?

thats just full of Ewwww!

I really enjoy reading your threads Bighead....you sir certianly show that sarcasm is a subtle way of making making a lil laughter to this subject. Certianly makes me feel that not all of us need to be serious THINKERS to invigorate a topic!

if you continue to read further, it does mention a few things regarding concepts related to ideas of transmutation of species or evolution, including ideas" w no relation to Charles, however the meaning says that its being freely used as a short hand for evolutionary theory.

Its pretty vague, but you can think for yourself here when we talk about what bighead said about evolving from a peice of rock slate or something...

WOW interesting....

"In the late 19th century it came to mean the concept that natural selection was the sole mechanism of evolution"...

hmmm ponder this one... ITs all textbook-ish... and yes its late for me, i'm getting tired.. Ill read more in the a.m when i wake up with my child to get him off to school.

Nite folks... I'll hit up more tomorrow.

There are a few important points that have been brought up by Maruraba with regard to my last post.

First, the idea about all beliefs being false needs some clarification. All beliefs are true for the people who hold them, but they are not true in the real sense. Also, it is only a linguistic matter to say that you believe the sun is a star. As you implied by your next statement, you KNOW the sun is a star, or at least, you can be fairly certain of it given some preconditions. This is because you have evidence for what the sun is and what a star is, and you can see that the sun is part of the larger category of stars.

Beliefs are things which have no basis in reality - however, you must be careful to not confuse "reality" with the truths gained only through scientific means. This leads to the next point.

We CAN know things without looking outside of ourselves. What I mean by "the truthfulness of truth" is its validity, or proof. But I ask you: where do we get our sense of justice or fairness from? How do we come upon the truth of how best to love? It is not from a book, or scientific data - in the real sense we say we must love "from the heart". Although it's a highly ambiguous saying, it's clear that there is a gigantic difference between following a written guide to loving others, and knowing how already from the inside. So in this way too is there a gap between laws of society and true justice. The real truth behind these things are not found by looking outside, but deep within.

Furthermore, I am not of any religion, but seek out and look for the truth. I am on a pathless path, and look for insight into myself and others.

You are right to think that labels are there for a reason, but there is a difference between the symbolic labels that words usually are, and a label that distinguishes or delineates a group of people.

The danger might not at first seem apparent. It may seem reasonable to you to call yourself an "agnostic atheist", but, being that, and insisting on putting a label on yourself and others, how can you be a "non-atheist atheist"? By categorizing yourself, you allow for a static conception of your own state of being, so that there it is easier to stay stuck, comfortable, and hold back your ability to flow. By simply seeking the truth, you allow yourself to transform beyond these boundaries. It can be very difficult, because of all the traps and illusionary rewards that have been constructed to keep you within one place or the next.

In such a way, atheism is absolutely a religion, if you go about considering yourself to be atheist, and in your mind holding yourself above or more enlightened than non-atheists. This can happen naturally just by putting yourself in such a box.

I did mention this before, but what we consider to be religions are not the only thing that can fall into that category. For instance, various political systems could easily be considered this too, so just because it has a different mask does not mean it isn't a religion. For instance, in America, we have prevailing duality (republican/democrat, us vs. the terrorists), rituals (elections), organization (government), core "good" beliefs (freedom), etc. Maybe there are enough differences to warrant a different name, but the similarities are apparent.

So when we talk of beliefs, we are talking of things that are held on to for the sake of tradition, or because of ignorance, or out of fear of the unknown (non-belief), etc. Beliefs are like a buffer against the real truth - beliefs feel good in the moment, while truth is bitter. But those who can pursue the real truth are not afraid of the bitterness, and specifically of transforming themselves.

We all know plenty of people who cling to foolish beliefs, and they are easy to spot because we've already come to the realization that having those specific beliefs are false. The belief of needing to look thin to gain the approval of others in anorexic girls, for instance. But maybe for less harmful beliefs we let them slip by, saying "maybe those are true" - they are not. Those beliefs, however innocent they may seem, are in the end false, even if they are mostly harmless.

But instead of looking to other people, as many make the mistake of, use the idea of "All beliefs are false" as a tool for self-transformation. What is it that you believe? What would letting go of that belief entail for you? What lies do you tell yourself?

In this context, the belief-systems of religion are false, because in the end they are self-justified. Religion does not ultimately help people to be better, but controls them with insisting on specific practices and dogma. Think about what each practice, each prayer, mantra, element of the doctrine, ritual is REALLY saying - unmask it. Words are symbols, so what are they really pointing to? Get at the real truth, which is beyond the mask of religion. Every person is capable of pursuing it. Getting trapped in a religion just confuses, confounds, and deludes.

Once again, truth is realized internally, which is why it cannot be told. The most words can be are a spark to start the flame of realization. So work towards self-awareness, and you can work towards the truth.

It's crazy how people with the most ridiculous and unmerited concepts of reality are the ones most certain of themselves.

Nah, just more of a lol @ people who are 100% certain of themselves rather than opening up to consideration/questioning like a normal human being should.
I'm not swinging in any particular direction, but to go against human nature with a so-called absolution is silly.

I apologize if my previous post sounded arrogant. I just can't fathom how people could make so damn sure of themselves even with things many would take for granted. The key is to be open to the possibility that you could be right or wrong.

Try telling that to a Catholic, Barti. XD

Sorry, srs thread is srs. :|

EDIT: Thought I'd add something at least a little productive.

During my time living in the Bible Belt (Specifically Tennessee), I made an honest effort to be a Christian. I respect the people who are able to follow their church and the Bible the way they do, but after not caring for years, it's quite hard to do.

I give great credit for those who use faith as a tool to better themselves, to build great esteem, good will, and generally a backbone for sticking to what they feel is right.

However, at the same time, that can lead to taking many things for granted. I feel as human beings, our species function best to change when we open our minds to the possibility of change at any given moment. This is how we adjust to our ever changing times/culture/general way of life. But this only applies to those who use faith as a tool of being stubborn, rather than being a better person.

I just find too many religions and their dogmas restrict a person's view on life rather than open it up. Hence why we have so many conflicts with separation of church and state within our legislation and laws.

Hey Mabrook.. Very cool info, I was more less thinking, after I had my morning coffee that this view has a good point. I was looking at it as a Abrahamistic view with a Darwin-istic approach. It also mentions that through Islamic views, that the creation of earth was through God, it also mentions too, that it has a Genesis-like approach, but a corupted version of God's message...???0.o ( When they say Genesis, that to me tells me there is a theory of evolution going on, thus an approach from the amoeba all the way up to modern man)

Interpretation... isn't that like an idea, meaning a idea made by someone or a group as a whole. Sounds to me this idea was put into great thought..maybe by some theologion thought??? hmmm?

They mention Abraham, that is older than Islam itself, way before Islam?? </shrugs>?

So far.. this is a good read, I don't want to go to far disectiong this, but i'm still reading... I could go on.. but I need a breath of fresh air...lol

This is true, to a point. However, it does give them a justification for their actions. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is almost as bad as the religion specifically saying to kill any non-beleiver (hi2u Crusades).

This kinda goes back to the original form of your quote. Yeah, people do the deed in the end, but the gun makes is sooo much easier. A gun makes the kill much less personal, so it's easier on the conscious because it wasn't done with their own hands (to an extent, anyway).

It's the same with religions. There's less guilt because they can make themselves beleive it's their gods will, or interpret their religions chronicles as they see fit.

As for the utopia? I'll agree, it's not going to happen. High class though.. Depends on what you mean. We would certainly be more technologically advanced. While maybe not as bad as that chart a few pages back, it most definately brought advancement to a grinding halt for quite some time.

There's absolutely no reason to deny humans would kill each other whether religion existed or not. They did it before there was organised religions and they'll continue to do so after organised religions end (if they ever do) until the world itself ends and humans are wiped out.

I believe in the one, the only, the Yatagarasu