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Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Cerberus.Dizzmal
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 256
By Cerberus.Dizzmal 2010-04-09 09:43:21
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Carbuncle.Sevourn said: the largest religion in the world Islam is actually the world's largest religion, google it before you start throwing false pretext >_>
err might want to check your facts before you make yourself sound like a douche.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm
Now if you really want to technical, you could break it up in groups (ie. Catholic,Baptist, etc) you could say that Islam(1.6B followers.) is bigger than the Catholic denomination(1.2B followers.) Then you could say that. But if you count the entire Christian following, meaning all denominations which stands at 2.1B followers Christianity is larger. So depending on how you want to group them will decide which is the biggest. Judging that when people talk about Christians, they include every denomination in their stereotypical comments, I would group them together in saying that Christianity is still the worlds largest Religion.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Asura.Deodate 2010-04-09 09:56:50
Ifrit.Cright said: Please quote me some scriptures that say people will suffer.
ECCLESIASTES 9:5
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
—2 Thessalonians 1:9
Like this?
Ifrit.Cright
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Posts: 102
By Ifrit.Cright 2010-04-09 10:56:37
If you are conscious of nothing, how do you suffer?
Bismarck.Drakelth
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Posts: 838
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2010-04-09 11:04:03
Asura.Korpg said: I corrupted Anye a long time ago. She believes in the Church of Anye. Best Church EVAR! Sleep late, do whatever you want, watch porn all you want, be free of moral duties, watch porn all you want, service involves pudding and bikini-clad women, and you get to watch all the porn you want!
where can i sign up???
as long as their is not any deities.
Ifrit.Cright
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By Ifrit.Cright 2010-04-09 14:56:27
Where is this hell? The Bible says, "the wages sin pays is death"
Quote: Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Condemned to death, where does it say people will be burned in hell.
God is loving and wants all his children to listen to him. If your child did not listen to you would you take his hand and hold it over a fire?
I don't think so.
Then what makes you think God would?
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Bismarck.Drakelth
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Posts: 838
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2010-04-09 14:58:35
Two guys from Toronto die and wake up in hell.
The next day the devil stops in to check on them and sees them dressed in parkas, mittens and toques warming themselves around the fire. The devil asks them, “What are you doing? Isn’t it hot enough for you?”
The two guys reply, “Well, you know, we’re from Canada, the land of snow and ice and cold. We’re just happy to get a chance to warm up a little bit, eh.”
The devil decides that these two aren’t miserable enough and turns up the heat.
The next morning he stops in again and there they are, still dressed in parkas, toques and mittens. The devil asks them again, “It’s awfully hot down here, can’t you guys feel it?”
Again the two guys reply, “Well, like we told you yesterday, we’re from Canada, the land of snow and ice and cold. We’re just happy to get a chance to warm up a little bit, eh.”
This gets the devil a little steamed up and he decides to get these two guys. He cranks the heat up as high as it will go. And it gets really hot. People are wailing and screaming everywhere.
He stops by the room with the two guys from Canada and finds them wearing light jackets and bucket hats, grilling sausages and drinking beer.
The devil is astonished, “Everyone down here is in abject misery, and you two seem to be enjoying yourselves.”
The two Canadians reply, “Well, ya know, we don’t get too much warm weather up there in Toronto, so we’ve just got to have a cook-out when the weather’s THIS nice.”
The devil is absolutely furious, he can hardly see straight. Finally he comes up with the answer. The two guys love the heat because they have been cold all their lives – he’ll be able to make them miserable if he turns off all the heat in hell.
The next morning, the temperature is way below zero, icicles are hanging everywhere; people are shivering so badly that they are unable to do anything but wail, moan and gnash their teeth.
The devil smiles and heads for the room with the two Canadians.
When he gets there and finds them back in their parkas, toques, and mittens. But instead of moaning, they are jumping up and down, cheering, yelling and screaming like mad men!!!
The devil is dumbfounded, “I don’t understand, when I turn up the heat you’re happy. Now it’s freezing cold and you’re still happy. What is wrong with you two???”
The Torontonians look at the devil in surprise, “Well, don’t you know? If Hell freezes over, it must mean the Leafs have won the Stanley Cup.”
Asura.Warpy
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Posts: 99
By Asura.Warpy 2010-04-09 15:27:42
hmm, beer, sex, drugs, pork.. or a bomb vest., I know which I'd choose. nuff sed.
Carbuncle.Kyhira
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By Carbuncle.Kyhira 2010-04-09 17:03:26
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Shiva.Weewoo
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By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-04-09 17:08:29
Pretty much sums it up Kyhira.
Cerberus.Inglorion
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By Cerberus.Inglorion 2010-04-09 17:22:44
Ragnarok.Anye said: Asura.Deodate said: Sure there are. But this is one of them. And it's moronic.
**edit** And that's my point. There are books/passages that are overlooked/ignored because they don't fit the rest of the christian doctrine. The bible is heavily cherry-picked. XD Well, take it as you will; I'm not here to convince you otherwise, I just want to make sure that it is abundantly clear that it's not something to be taken lightly ("it" being the entire Bible, including every single book in the OT and NT). And you're right, the Bible IS heavily cherry-picked, but I'd like to believe that one must take the entirety of the Bible into consideration as he or she reads an excerpt.
Take these "moronic" Mosaic laws, for example:
Quote: Deuteronomy 6:20-25
In the future, when your son asks you, "What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the LORD our God has commanded you?" tell him: "We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. Before our eyes the LORD sent miraculous signs and wonders—great and terrible—upon Egypt and Pharaoh and his whole household. But he brought us out from there to bring us in and give us the land that he promised on oath to our forefathers. The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the LORD our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness." In other words, they're there to make sure that all the glory belongs to God, that whatever happened was the result of God's hand.
Which still stands today-- Redemption is not about the Christian, it's about Christ--GOD being glorified. Isaiah 48 speaks about this, as do the previous and following chapters, regarding God's sovereignty. Quote: Isaiah 43:25
I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
Isaiah 48:9-11
For my own name's sake I delay my wrath; for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you, so as not to cut you off. See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another. Quote: Ephesians 1:4-6
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. Jesus said: John 17:24
Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
If you think I'm really just pulling these all out of my ***, but consider for a moment how I know where all these passages are, and how I know where to find them, within the correct context and everything. Check my sources--read the verses and chapters before and after my quotes, I dare you. If you can't tell by now, I take the Bible very seriously, I study it through and through, and these passages aren't merely cherry-picked. They're there for a reason, confirming and supporting the belief in its entirety. I could list so much more if space wasn't an issue.
If you're THAT into the bible, then why do you hate me? =(
Cerberus.Inglorion
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Posts: 496
By Cerberus.Inglorion 2010-04-09 17:26:57
Gilgamesh.Mytoy said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: Ofc when your married no one can stop you if you wanna have sex or not, I mean like... I mingle with my wife every um... 2-3 days if not less? lol But that's why we're having our 2nd child otw in 7 months and I'm only 25 lol; but hey, life's great 8)
I can understand that...but again, that applies to followers of the religion. Why do certain members of the followers insist on forcing their beliefs on others by preventing gay marriage? It's not said followers that are committing this "sin."
Gay Marriage is an oxymoron entirely, it contradicts itself because marriage wasn't invented by gays, it was meant for man and woman. Gay marriage to me is the same as saying healthy Macdonalds double cheeseburgers.
Serveur: Sylph
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Posts: 389
By Sylph.Maruraba 2010-04-09 17:54:36
Cerberus.Inglorion said: Gay Marriage is an oxymoron entirely, it contradicts itself because marriage wasn't invented by gays, it was meant for man and woman. Gay marriage to me is the same as saying healthy Macdonalds double cheeseburgers.
This makes me tired AND hungry.
Let's start with the fact that marriage historically had a lot more to do with property rights than with love. Currently, the idea of marriage is to form a bond and be recognized as one entity by god or at least the state. The point is, the concept of what a marriage is about has changed; it is not static. Since it's now about two people who care for each other, what harm is there in allowing a homosexual couple to have the same rights and recognition as a heterosexual couple. It does no harm to anybody, certainly less than McDonald's cheeseburgers (which we still sell, I might add) so what's the problem?
Arguments about definitions, oxymoronic or not, seem pretty paltry, however, when it causes unequal treatment for others who are just as deserving of the same rights. Explain to me logically how gay marriage causes anyone any harm and do it without saying "The Bible says it's evil!" Questioning and giving actual reasons is something everyone, religious or otherwise, should be doing.
Cerberus.Inglorion
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Posts: 496
By Cerberus.Inglorion 2010-04-09 17:57:42
it's not unequal, if gays wanna *** celebrate there love, then make up there own thing and don't call it marriage
Shiva.Weewoo
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Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-04-09 17:58:30
Cerberus.Inglorion said: it's not unequal, if gays wanna *** celebrate there love, then make up there own thing and don't call it marriage
Then call it a civil union. I don't care wtf it's called, the point is they deserve rights as much as any normal married straight couple.
Cerberus.Inglorion
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Posts: 496
By Cerberus.Inglorion 2010-04-09 18:00:21
Shiva.Weewoo said: Cerberus.Inglorion said: it's not unequal, if gays wanna *** celebrate there love, then make up there own thing and don't call it marriage
Then call it a civil union. I don't care wtf it's called, the point is they deserve rights as much as any normal married straight couple.
I never said they didn't deserve the same rights, I just said they shouldn't celebrate there love under "marriage"
Shiva.Weewoo
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Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-04-09 18:14:46
Just bugs me that the thing stopping legislation for equal rights when it comes to marriage for gays/lesbians is people getting up in arms over this so called definition of a word.
Call it something else, give it a different legal process and document, I really don't care. It seems so silly that equal rights are being halted by gay marriage not matching the criteria of the word "marriage".
Bismarck.Drakelth
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Posts: 838
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2010-04-09 21:22:53
I think its funny people have a problem with gay marriage but don't have a problem when people get married for tax reasons or cause they are in Vegas and had way to much to drink. So its bad when 2 people who love each other want to get married just because they have a different sexual orientation, but it is acceptable for 2 people who may not even like each other to get married for tax reasons or some other reason beside love just because they are straight.
Bismarck.Drakelth
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By Bismarck.Drakelth 2010-04-09 21:31:23
My personal feelings on marriage are that it was invented by cavemen. Cavemen had an average life span of 25 years, so till death meant 5 years if that.
Maybe that explains the massive divorce rates.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 66
By Sylph.Budoukiba 2010-04-09 23:08:41
To summarize OP's thoughts:
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Caitsith.Neonracer
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Posts: 2748
By Caitsith.Neonracer 2010-04-09 23:19:28
Quote: Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Ok, I do believe, in a higher power, and I'm not saying what god it is, b/c I simply do not know. I don't feel it needs to be defined. Its something within yoursewlf that you feel, and it doesn't need validation from anyone else.
I think Religion or beliefs are precious and to be respected.
To each their own.
Anye... can get some input from ya, on this? thanks!
Neo!
Ragnarok.Anye
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Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2010-04-09 23:49:48
Pandemonium.Kajidourden said: Any validity you might have had with these responses is completely destroyed by the fact that your religion (along with many others) literally teaches "Do what i say or suffer for eternity". Fear is one of the more powerful motivators, and when someone truly believes their livelihood is at stake (or believes they have some form of absolution) they'll do many things you wouldn't otherwise expect.
You cannot simply dismiss the influences in a persons life based on the fact that nobody's perfect. Should it necessarily take all of the blame? No, but neither can it be ignored completely. I still feel that it's up to each individual to take responsibility for their actions, especially in the case of "following a religion." One's ignorance is an inherent weakness to subjecting oneself to all sorts of manipulative advances. Again, I'll state that humans affect other humans in one way or another, but it is solely up to the individual to decide who he or she wants to follow, and in what manner.
Ifrit.Cright said: Please quote me some scriptures that say people will suffer.
ECCLESIASTES 9:5
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. If you are conscious of nothing, how do you suffer?Asura.Deodate said: They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
—2 Thessalonians 1:9
Like this? Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: So people in hell do not suffer? Oh!
Here is some more for you.
Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality.
Pretty easy to know that unrighteous can fall under the category of not being a follower of said childrens book. If you go to hell, that is suffrage.
If you disagree here is some more.
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Cright, these guys are right. It doesn't really do you any good to quote Ecclesiastes as it only speaks about the ephemerality of life here on Earth.
The Bible never really goes into specifics regarding Heaven nor Hell, but this is one way of looking at it (quoted from a previous post in a different thread): Anye said: "Damnation to hell" is an interesting thing. It should be made well aware that "Heaven" and "Hell" are places where you choose to go. Christians choose to love God, and choose to spend eternity with him. Non-Christians choose not to love God, and choose not to spend eternity with him. But the torture is in the Christian perspective that, an eternity without a God they truly and fully love is the uttermost pain imaginable--thusly, Hell.
-edit- ROFL--Just in time, Neon!
Caitsith.Linear
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-10 01:08:37
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Anyway Anye I have riddle from everyone's favorite Greek philosopher, Epicurus. "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" This. This exactly.
Given the state the world is in now, and all the ***that's happened over the course of human history, I've come to three conclusions.
1. God isn't as omnipotent or all-knowing as they'd like you to beleive.
2. God is an *** that enjoys *** with his little meat sack toys. It's a large scale version of Little Big Planet, except when you die, there is no coming back.
3. There is no God. <-- This is the answer I went with. I reject the idea of a God that posesses any of the first two conclusions as traits.
For example, let's look at what happened to Job. Just to prove to Lucifer that humans "loved" him, he let Lucifer *** this guy over in the most horrible ways imagineable. Sure, he got rewarded, but was it honestly worth going through that ***just to prove God right? I think not.
Because it affects my life. That's the reason it bothers me. I wish for the demise of several organizations that I feel are destructive to me, my family, my friends and human evolution in general. Almost all countries in the world are ruled by religious people who, more than often, base their decisions on outdated beliefs rather than secular moral standards such as basic human rights, global awareness, tolerance towards difference and a genuine pursuit of peace.
That, my friend, is anything but reassuring.
Rationalists, those who chose, out of simple logic, not to believe in something supernatural, need to state their opinion, proudly and coherently. They need to have a place in society and politics, to be heard and to at least have a word on what the future's going to look like. Something as serious as the occupation of Iraq (close to 100000 have died in it) could probably have been avoided. If it wasn't for the fact that so many US voters based their vote on Bush's claim to have strong religious beliefs, rather than nonviolent ideologies, less people would be dead today.
Beliefs keep us from evolving because of what they are: Suppositions that were turned into artificial facts by irrational, although well intentioned people. The scientific approach goes in contradiction with the religious approach. I will show you that I have a baseball to prove that I own one. Instead, a religious person will dare you to prove that he doesn't have a baseball and your failing to demonstrate that he doesn't own one will make him feel justified.
Doubt, the very basis of knowledge: Doubt is the only way to keep our mind from falling into what I like to describe as "lazy mode". Doubt requires constant re-questioning of our assumptions and becomes harder as we grow old. We have to constantly remind ourselves that what we think we know... might be wrong.
Religions fundamentally discourage questioning; even when they pretend to do, they do it in a hypocritical way that discourages questioning even the relevance of believing. Oppositely, Science has, over the centuries, been re-evaluated from scratch, in the noble attempt to find some provable truths. Small truths, yes, but significant ones. The first scientists obviously believed in God; now, most don't.
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