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Religion: If You Don't Believe In It Why Does It Bother You?
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Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Anye is looking for specific verses from the Bible to avoid something like this:
Asura.Halloween said:
So in my own, personal experience, I see very little good coming out of religion and just a big ol' heap of bad. If there is a God out there, then he's quite neglectful or just a sadist. I would not trust him with my life or my soul. And that's what I believe.
-edit- Uh, bad grammar, but whatever. It just sounds weird if I say "one" in a sentence too many times....
Odin.Liela said:
Bahamut.Stanflame said:
Odin.Liela said:
Actually, I have read the Bible cover-to-cover more than once. Like I said before, my parents and entire family were (and still are) very devout, strict Christians. They are Baptist, if that matters to you. I attended Sunday School and Church every Sunday morning and night church every Sunday night, Awana Club every Wednesday after school. (Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed, it's sorta like boy scouts and girl scouts, only in church.) When I outgrew Awana, I went to Wednesday Youth Group every week. Every night from the time I was a baby, my Dad read my siblings and I books from the Bible before bedtime. I'm not going to tell you that I know every single thing the Bible ever said, because that would be untrue. But I do know a damn lot of it, because I grew up in an environment saturated with it.
So have I strict parents, sunday, choir etc. except I stopped going to choir even when I was begged to go, I do not like to sing so leave me alone.
I believe I said earlier more than once that God and Christians don't bother me, and in fact my best friend is a Christian. I simply don't like it when they try to convert me. You are correct that I don't know every single religion and whatnot out there. That's not really my point. My point is, I will respect your beliefs if you respect that I am agnostic and will remain so.
all thid eas when I was little though, as soon as I was 10 or 11 I said I do not want to do choir. People understood it and moved on. It just was not for me, that was it.
Freedom of speech bothers me one should be aloud to do or think for them self at all we need to be like robots and programed. Don't believe anything you see hear or say, and don't let anyone else think for them self also tell them what to think, believe and do. The Bible also says we should not judge people so "we" can not say whether or not you are going or not going to hell. have a nice day...
P.S. don't click on the button below, and I do believe in God, and the Bible(Old and New Testament) Have a nice day.
(>^.^)>u u<(^.^<)
P.S. don't click on the button below, and I do believe in God, and the Bible(Old and New Testament) Have a nice day.
(>^.^)>u u<(^.^<)
sorry i cant edit my crap, I do believe in Freedom of speech and i was sarcastic if you could not tell.
(>^.^)>u u<(^.^<)
(>^.^)>u u<(^.^<)
Asura.Halloween said:
Sorry I didn't read that part about wanting bible citations. But I don't know what good they would do in this specific debate.
Is the question not about how religion is bothering those who don't identify with any religious organization?
I can appreciate the bible as a book of fables with themes about morality. But the bottom line is that only a select few groups even consider the Bible literally. Other organizations interpret it as they choose, and even then some individuals interpret it in their own personal ways.
But honestly, you've GOT to pick and choose what you want to believe in out of that book. It's just gosh darn silly sometimes
and much more....
Is the question not about how religion is bothering those who don't identify with any religious organization?
I can appreciate the bible as a book of fables with themes about morality. But the bottom line is that only a select few groups even consider the Bible literally. Other organizations interpret it as they choose, and even then some individuals interpret it in their own personal ways.
But honestly, you've GOT to pick and choose what you want to believe in out of that book. It's just gosh darn silly sometimes
Deuteronomy said:
"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy said:
if two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."
and much more....
Old argument is old--yet valid. Christian doctrine isn't literally based on Mosaic law, but fulfills it.
I should, but won't, quote the entirety of Romans to explain this. One excerpt to incompletely summarize it would be
Quote:
Romans 2:13:
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 3:9b-10:
We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one....
Romans 3:19-22:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 3:9b-10:
We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one....
Romans 3:19-22:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
If you don't, and just want to gainsay every point I state, then I'm simply not going to reply....
-edit- Ninja-edited, like, several times.
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Asura.Halloween said:
Sorry I didn't read that part about wanting bible citations. But I don't know what good they would do in this specific debate.
Is the question not about how religion is bothering those who don't identify with any religious organization?
I can appreciate the bible as a book of fables with themes about morality. But the bottom line is that only a select few groups even consider the Bible literally. Other organizations interpret it as they choose, and even then some individuals interpret it in their own personal ways.
But honestly, you've GOT to pick and choose what you want to believe in out of that book. It's just gosh darn silly sometimes
and much more....
Is the question not about how religion is bothering those who don't identify with any religious organization?
I can appreciate the bible as a book of fables with themes about morality. But the bottom line is that only a select few groups even consider the Bible literally. Other organizations interpret it as they choose, and even then some individuals interpret it in their own personal ways.
But honestly, you've GOT to pick and choose what you want to believe in out of that book. It's just gosh darn silly sometimes
Deuteronomy said:
"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy said:
if two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."
and much more....
Old argument is old--yet valid. Christian doctrine isn't literally based on Mosaic law, but fulfills it.
I should, but won't, quote the entirety of Romans to explain this. One excerpt to incompletely summarize it would be
Quote:
Romans 2:13:
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 3:19-22:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 3:19-22:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
If you don't, and just want to gainsay every point I state, then I'm simply not going to reply....
Just to clarify what has been quoted for those who may not understand it:
In essence the Law is designed around the Law of God and all must follow it BUT it's not enough to just follow the Law of God. You must also accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior while also following the Law of God.
Sylph.Oddin said:
In essence the Law is designed around the Law of God and all must follow it BUT it's not enough to just follow the Law of God. You must also accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior while also following the Law of God.
I still stand by my pre-edited post, just edited more for further clarification (read: for those who don't want to read the entire book of Romans).
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
i think it would be nice to have a specific heavily moderated debate forum where replies that didn't meet a certain standard of quality were deleted
but the hours of moderation that would require and the inevitable cries of OMGZ MY REPLY WAZ GUD WHY U DELETE IT LUZL OMGZ make that pretty much a pipe dream
but the hours of moderation that would require and the inevitable cries of OMGZ MY REPLY WAZ GUD WHY U DELETE IT LUZL OMGZ make that pretty much a pipe dream
-edit- I was going to cite the thread, but *shudder* it was a thread made by Bulleta, so... if you remember her, then... yeah....
Yeah, i had the pleasure of knowing Bulleta while i was on seraph.
Anyways, just wanted to say its nice to see some intelligent/mature posts actually hitting this thread.
its always great to see people who find: Knowledge > Ignorance.
There is nothing worse than seeing someone post an opinion on something they actually know absolutely nothing about.
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Sylph.Oddin said:
In essence the Law is designed around the Law of God and all must follow it BUT it's not enough to just follow the Law of God. You must also accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior while also following the Law of God.
I still stand by my pre-edited post, just edited more for further clarification (read: for those who don't want to read the entire book of Romans).
See now I'm not even going to pay any heed to your edits either because they're completely contradictory. However to your first excerpts, what I wrote is pretty much what it means.
First sentence: The Law of God applies to all children of God.
Second sentence: Following the Law does not make you righteous (worthy of entering Heaven as it were) alone. It instead just details sin and the avoidance of sin.
Third and Fourth sentence: One must refrain from sin as well as accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior to be righteous.
Why don't you just read the book? :)? >_>
-edited-
-edited-
[+]
As I have stated before, I have. Fun for bedtime reading. Not so much for putting one's life into.
Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Because ppl dont stfu about it
Because ppl dont stfu about it
Asura.Calatilla said:
Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Because ppl dont stfu about it
Because ppl dont stfu about it
Funny, I don't see nearly as many topics of religious people trying to covert people as I do atheists trying to covert people.
So if I believe in religion, why do atheists bother me?
Because they won't stfu about it.
[+]
Ragnarok.Anye said:
What I'd really like to know is, have any of you Bible-bashers actually read the Bible?
No, I mean, really. For the last 15 pages (lol@me, I read 'em all) I've seen most (read: most) of the posters basing their hatred for religion on the actions of ONE stereotype of ONE religion, Christianity.
Fine, BE that way; for all I know the majority of those of you who condescend to so-called "Christianity" live in the Bible Belt and have only been exposed to the actions of Southern Baptist Christian behavior (read: HUMAN hypocrisy). (Not to debase the theology of the Southern Baptist, but rather to state the dominant denomination of the Christian church in that area.)
You proclaim the supposed ignorance of anyone who believes a silly little book of which you've only heard rumors of rumors, or perhaps you've actually been to Sunday School and recall the stories told and conveyed through coloring books and frumpy story-tellers.
Opinions based on fact is what I want. Opinions based on the actual god-damned-breathed Bible (see wut I did thar?) I'll accept. Otherwise you're not criticizing a belief OR a religion--you're criticizing a simply human state of mind, placed within a religious setting.
No, I mean, really. For the last 15 pages (lol@me, I read 'em all) I've seen most (read: most) of the posters basing their hatred for religion on the actions of ONE stereotype of ONE religion, Christianity.
Fine, BE that way; for all I know the majority of those of you who condescend to so-called "Christianity" live in the Bible Belt and have only been exposed to the actions of Southern Baptist Christian behavior (read: HUMAN hypocrisy). (Not to debase the theology of the Southern Baptist, but rather to state the dominant denomination of the Christian church in that area.)
You proclaim the supposed ignorance of anyone who believes a silly little book of which you've only heard rumors of rumors, or perhaps you've actually been to Sunday School and recall the stories told and conveyed through coloring books and frumpy story-tellers.
Opinions based on fact is what I want. Opinions based on the actual god-
You can pretty much ask this question to anyone that believes in anything.
"Have you done extensive research in all other religions before you decided that yours is the way to go?"
It's not really a valid argument for people who don't believe. Because if that is how you see things, then no one has the right of an opinion about any religion unless they have done the research about them all.
There's also a difference between believing in the bible and believing in a god.
I believe the bible is true from the point of view of those who wrote it, that doesnt nessesary mean that it's true in this day and age when we have evolved and can question what the bible says with the backup of science.
The only answer religious people have for anything they can't give a concrete answer for is "God works in mysterious ways". For people like me, that wants answers thats simply not enough.
I will never be convinced by someone who cant give any other answers like that. Sure, we can't prove that there's no god either, but to me it makes more sense than believing that an all knowing god created everything. Although I dont go from door to door and hunt religios people down to try and convince them of my beliefs.
My grandparens are lestadians but even they let me have my own beliefs and dont try to push their beliefs on me, why should I accept that people who don't know me and who I don't know to tell me I'm going to hell if I dont accept jesus?
I understand, Zanno, but that post was directed at those who would scorn Christianity by looking at the Christians--specifically, the hypocritical ones--rather than observing Christianity's foundation for belief.
As for your opinion, I've got no beef with that. You've made completely legitimate claims that you have come up with yourself. I mentioned earlier that "I find it of utmost importance to be honest with oneself, and seek to improve one's perspective on truth to ensure they're on the path they're truly seeking."
I'm not here to prove whether or not the God of the Bible exists; I'm not here to convert you all. I'm just trying to show Christianity for what it really is.
As for your opinion, I've got no beef with that. You've made completely legitimate claims that you have come up with yourself. I mentioned earlier that "I find it of utmost importance to be honest with oneself, and seek to improve one's perspective on truth to ensure they're on the path they're truly seeking."
I'm not here to prove whether or not the God of the Bible exists; I'm not here to convert you all. I'm just trying to show Christianity for what it really is.
Ragnarok.Anye said:
I understand, Zanno, but that post was directed at those who would scorn Christianity by looking at the Christians--specifically, the hypocritical ones--rather than observing Christianity's foundation for belief.
As for your opinion, I've got no beef with that. You've made completely legitimate claims that you have come up with yourself. I mentioned earlier that "I find it of utmost importance to be honest with oneself, and seek to improve one's perspective on truth to ensure they're on the path they're truly seeking."
I'm not here to prove whether or not the God of the Bible exists; I'm not here to convert you all. I'm just trying to show Christianity for what it really is.
As for your opinion, I've got no beef with that. You've made completely legitimate claims that you have come up with yourself. I mentioned earlier that "I find it of utmost importance to be honest with oneself, and seek to improve one's perspective on truth to ensure they're on the path they're truly seeking."
I'm not here to prove whether or not the God of the Bible exists; I'm not here to convert you all. I'm just trying to show Christianity for what it really is.
oh ok ^^
I agree that there's way too many jumping on the [insert any subject here]bandwagon, no matter the subject, without actually having a real opinion themselves =P
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
--Mohandas Gandhi
--Mohandas Gandhi
[+]
Artemicion said:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
--Mohandas Gandhi
--Mohandas Gandhi
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
i think it would be nice to have a specific heavily moderated debate forum where replies that didn't meet a certain standard of quality were deleted
but the hours of moderation that would require and the inevitable cries of OMGZ MY REPLY WAZ GUD WHY U DELETE IT LUZL OMGZ make that pretty much a pipe dream
but the hours of moderation that would require and the inevitable cries of OMGZ MY REPLY WAZ GUD WHY U DELETE IT LUZL OMGZ make that pretty much a pipe dream
That was fun, wasn't it, Anye? :) Well, you know from my discussions with you that I have read the Bible, but I don't know if I could be considered a "bible-basher" or not. But anyway...
In a very general sense, I agree with the original poster that religion causes problems. However, in purely pragmatic terms, name-calling and actively calling for the "demise" of religion is not productive. It alienates people, stirs up feelings, and makes people less willing to discuss. I don't mind that people have religion until it motivates them to treat me or others with less respect. I mind being told that I'm a bad person because I'm an atheist and I consider someone telling me that I'm going to hell to be a direct attack on my character: you say that to me, I'll respond to it. Not every Christian calls evolution a myth or considers homosexuality evil, but those that do are going to get an earful from me. I'm not trying to pick on Christianity in particular, either; if a muslim said I was evil for drinking alcohol or not accepting Mohammed as a prophet, I'd have words too... it just hasn't happened yet.
But it's a two-way street. Respect ought to be on both sides, because stuff like this
Kungfuhustle said:
You think Jesus would like you *** Christians to shed blood in his name, or force your belief on others like a principal forcing himself on a hot teen co-ed?!
Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
Religion debates are never good imo lol.
The most important thing I can say is believing in a karma at least, where what you do actually matters for something which could range from feeling good about yourself and bringing a simple tear of joy to a better after-life. Because if it didn't matter then it basically debates at the end about "then go kill yourself" literally lol.
That wasn't a statement to be taken seriously though, it really just boils down to if you can be a good person or not.
Oh and btw I'm Muslim OMGZ!! lol
The most important thing I can say is believing in a karma at least, where what you do actually matters for something which could range from feeling good about yourself and bringing a simple tear of joy to a better after-life. Because if it didn't matter then it basically debates at the end about "then go kill yourself" literally lol.
That wasn't a statement to be taken seriously though, it really just boils down to if you can be a good person or not.
Oh and btw I'm Muslim OMGZ!! lol
I like this, really, and being Black, Brown, White, or Yellow, It should not matter. I actually embrace culture, b.c mine ( being Scot heritage and White-Anglo Saxon) does get mundane and boring... I think that the bible is just a compilation of storys that were once put together to govern the people / the populations of biblical times, through fear and guilt. Its outdated and most of it does not apply to society today.
This is just my view.
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