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Regulate Religion, Not Guns.
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 76
By Fairy.Vylandra 2009-12-01 19:58:13
Pandemonium.Silvaria said: Fairy.Vylandra said: Fairy.Mykoto said: It saddens me how few 'pro-Christians' there are here. More so on how many more are willing to bash Christianity rather than respectfully responding. I won't laugh... it saddens me when atheists disrespect Christianity without understanding first what the bible actually says, as though they know exactly what Christianity is all about.
The true basis for Christianity preaches love, forgiveness, and respect for your fellow man... even if you're not a follower, I think these are points that everyone can agree with.
I can't say I agree with 'bible-thumping' Christians who try to forcibly shove the bible down peoples throats, hoping they'll convert or something, but that goes the same for anyone trying to force their beliefs on someone else. If you should disagree with someone, do it in a respectful conversation and discussion, don't come out all up in arms trying to tell them they are wrong; they do not believe they are wrong, and you will not get them to change their minds. It is only when a person is looking for another way that they hearts might be open to another's words.
This thread however, is not respectful to anyone's beliefs, and therefor undeserving of a true discussion.
This is going with the assumption that religion deserves some type of special treatment or respect. There is absolutely no evidence to support the claims that there is a God, yet religion assumes it deserves to be treated with respect and put up on a pedestal. This is the one thing that all religious people have wrong.
I do agree that you guys should stop trying to force your opinions down other people's throats. What you should do is go and read the bible...then when you're done go and read the origin of species. After you're done make a decision based on the information you've just been given.
I couldn't possibly agree more. I am tired of Christians telling me I need to "respect" their beliefs...why? Their "beliefs" dictate that I'm going to be punished for all of eternity. Not only that, but VERY FEW ever even attempt to respect my beliefs...the instant one tells me that I'm going to hell for not believing in Jesus, they are disrespecting my LACK of Christianity. Respect has to be earned...
That being said, I see the usual "you're trying to take away my right to worship" nonsense from a few posters here. NO ONE is trying to take away your right to believe as you see fit...but when you vote for politicians who want to end abortion based on religious belief, who want to discriminate against gays based on religious belief, and who want to force creationism into science class based on religious belief, then you are essentially trying to take away MY right to believe as I see fit by forcing your religion onto me.
For me, it always comes back down to The Golden Rule...don't do it to me if you don't want me to do it to you. 8)
You're absolutely right. Church and state were intended to be separate for a reason. Creationism has absolutely no place in schools and no right to dictate what is right or wrong in science. No one's children should grow up in today's society being ignorant of science, ESPECIALLY Evolutionary Biology.
I'm not like Silvaria in the way that I'll tell you I don't respect religion of any kind at all. I don't care about the respect they give me, because they don't deserve it themselves. I go through every day sincerely hoping that in my lifetime the origin of the universe will be discovered by someone like Stephen Hawking. Then I'll breathe easier knowing that the virus of religion won't be able to pollute the innocent minds of children any longer.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2009-12-01 21:06:34
Personally, I believe in God.
Whether I belived in God or not, I'd find OP's post annoying.
She gets so caught up in her psuedo-intellectual rant that she misattributes the main source of violence in the world.
It's not religion. It's man's desire to force his belief on his fellow man. Be it Christianity, Islam, or Atheism, when a group of people are so arrogant as to belive that they are so indusputibly right that those around them MUST think and belive exactly as they do, violence is sure to follow.
Religion isn't the problem, Evangilism is. And judging from OP's recent forum spam, she's a lot more annoyingly evangilistic than your average Christian.
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-01 21:08:00
THIS IS MY RELIGION!!!
AND IN THE FAMOUS WORDS OF GREGORY HOUSE...
AND FOR YOU JESUS ***...
Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2009-12-01 21:11:00
man wouldn't it be great if there was an autoban for falling under a certain word/picture ratio
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-01 21:18:08
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: man wouldn't it be great if there was an autoban for falling under a certain word/picture ratio
yeah, then I cant push my beliefs onto your simple mind :D
 Quetzalcoatl.Sethidus
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sethidus 2009-12-01 22:47:18
All of this has been discussed among philosophers throughout the ages, and it still is being discussed. For those interested, you should go to a community college and take a class in Philosophy of Knowledge/Pure Philosophy, and/or check out the philosophy anthology "Twenty Questions: An Introduction to Philosophy".
An example of a claim from an excerpt in this book: Norman Malcolm argues, through his paper "Knowledge Regained", that empirical observations (science) are dubitable since we cannot be certain that our senses are not deceiving us.
For the subject of God's existence, I recommend reading Anthony Flew's Parable of the Gardener, and Hare and Mitchell's responses to Flew. You can probably google it if you want to read it now.
The book includes excerpts of the arguments and responses (based on logic) to various subjects, including science, religion, human thinking in general, etcetera. The literature in this book will help you see and understand questions/problems of life.
 Bismarck.Misao
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Posts: 22620
By Bismarck.Misao 2009-12-01 23:52:35
Fairy.Maruraba said: 4. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is a fun enough series but it's *** overrated and overhyped. Go watch something else!
Thank you. :)
just because I mentioned (and have the avi) doesnt mean its the best or my favorite anime =P
Fairy.Mykoto
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 46
By Fairy.Mykoto 2009-12-02 00:04:15
Pandemonium.Silvaria said: Fairy.Vylandra said: Fairy.Mykoto said: It saddens me how few 'pro-Christians' there are here. More so on how many more are willing to bash Christianity rather than respectfully responding. I won't laugh... it saddens me when atheists disrespect Christianity without understanding first what the bible actually says, as though they know exactly what Christianity is all about.
The true basis for Christianity preaches love, forgiveness, and respect for your fellow man... even if you're not a follower, I think these are points that everyone can agree with.
I can't say I agree with 'bible-thumping' Christians who try to forcibly shove the bible down peoples throats, hoping they'll convert or something, but that goes the same for anyone trying to force their beliefs on someone else. If you should disagree with someone, do it in a respectful conversation and discussion, don't come out all up in arms trying to tell them they are wrong; they do not believe they are wrong, and you will not get them to change their minds. It is only when a person is looking for another way that they hearts might be open to another's words.
This thread however, is not respectful to anyone's beliefs, and therefor undeserving of a true discussion.
This is going with the assumption that religion deserves some type of special treatment or respect. There is absolutely no evidence to support the claims that there is a God, yet religion assumes it deserves to be treated with respect and put up on a pedestal. This is the one thing that all religious people have wrong.
I do agree that you guys should stop trying to force your opinions down other people's throats. What you should do is go and read the bible...then when you're done go and read the origin of species. After you're done make a decision based on the information you've just been given.
I couldn't possibly agree more. I am tired of Christians telling me I need to "respect" their beliefs...why? Their "beliefs" dictate that I'm going to be punished for all of eternity. Not only that, but VERY FEW ever even attempt to respect my beliefs...the instant one tells me that I'm going to hell for not believing in Jesus, they are disrespecting my LACK of Christianity. Respect has to be earned...
That being said, I see the usual "you're trying to take away my right to worship" nonsense from a few posters here. NO ONE is trying to take away your right to believe as you see fit...but when you vote for politicians who want to end abortion based on religious belief, who want to discriminate against gays based on religious belief, and who want to force creationism into science class based on religious belief, then you are essentially trying to take away MY right to believe as I see fit by forcing your religion onto me.
For me, it always comes back down to The Golden Rule...don't do it to me if you don't want me to do it to you. 8)
So essentially what you're both saying is "Don't respect me, because I have no intentions of showing you any respect" right? Good to know.
I never actually said you had to agree with my beliefs, I merely asked that you respect the fact that I believe in it.
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 Ragnarok.Arcalimo
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By Ragnarok.Arcalimo 2009-12-02 00:05:31
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-02 02:44:35
For the sake of wrapping this up neatly with a pretty bow lolpic:
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Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-02 02:45:22
I honestly thought the joke was going to have something to do with a slouchy boob at first. Pointing out such a thing would probably infuriate as well.
 Bahamut.Oblivion
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By Bahamut.Oblivion 2009-12-02 04:10:33
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By Fairy.Arduinna 2009-12-02 07:56:26
Fairy.Mykoto said: So essentially what you're both saying is "Don't respect me, because I have no intentions of showing you any respect" right? Good to know.
I never actually said you had to agree with my beliefs, I merely asked that you respect the fact that I believe in it.
No, I believe what they are trying to say is that religion tends to hold a one-sided view of what respect is. Why should we respect you when you will never respect us, as evidenced by the statement you made?
And I realize that there's always extremists on both sides, which may make respect difficult, but Atheists/Agnostics rarely get respect from religious groups. We tend to either get some sort of self-righteous pity for not knowing the "truth" or we are informed that not believing in a bunch of fairy tales is going to result in us rotting for all eternity in hell.
Neither of those behaviors is respecting our beliefs and simply underscores the fact that religion (and, yes, let's focus specifically on Christianity with this statement) is RARELY tolerant to those who do not share similar views.
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Fairy.Mykoto
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By Fairy.Mykoto 2009-12-02 10:46:08
Fairy.Arduinna said: Fairy.Mykoto said: So essentially what you're both saying is "Don't respect me, because I have no intentions of showing you any respect" right? Good to know.
I never actually said you had to agree with my beliefs, I merely asked that you respect the fact that I believe in it.
No, I believe what they are trying to say is that religion tends to hold a one-sided view of what respect is. Why should we respect you when you will never respect us, as evidenced by the statement you made?
And I realize that there's always extremists on both sides, which may make respect difficult, but Atheists/Agnostics rarely get respect from religious groups. We tend to either get some sort of self-righteous pity for not knowing the "truth" or we are informed that not believing in a bunch of fairy tales is going to result in us rotting for all eternity in hell.
Neither of those behaviors is respecting our beliefs and simply underscores the fact that religion (and, yes, let's focus specifically on Christianity with this statement) is RARELY tolerant to those who do not share similar views.
Perhaps, but I wish you wouldn't lump everyone together into that one category. If you notice I've shown no disrespect to anyone here, and it is never my intention to become one of those Christians who throw holy water at the sinners and warn them of their fiery eternity if they do not convert lol. I hate when people do that, it does little more than push people away, and make the rest of us look like loonies.
As you've said, there are extremists on either side, then there are the sane ones on both sides as well. It is my option to treat *everyone* I meet with respect and dignity until they give me a real reason to treat them otherwise, and even then, I'm just not good at hating on them *shrug*. I should hope people would do the same to me, regardless of what I believe in, though I guess you can't win em all :\
In anycase, I thank you for providing me with a calm, collected, and respectful response :)
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-02 10:48:31
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By Fairy.Baelfael 2009-12-02 11:09:02
Seraph.Caiyuo said: For the sake of wrapping this up neatly with a pretty bow lolpic:
Could probably make her a little mad if you mention it looks like she's only got one boob too. Or ask if that's a bra. lol
Bismarck.Ebonie
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Posts: 38
By Bismarck.Ebonie 2009-12-02 11:10:00
The only thing that I don't understand is if you don't believe in the religion you don't believe in hell either. Why would someone telling you to go to a place to don't think real bother you to start with? If someone said that I'd be stuck in purgatory because my family didn't pay off x amount of money I could care less. I believe it's been said before on this thread. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's the same as a door to door salesman,a telemarketer, or something more close to home an rmt sending tells advertising gil.
Asura.Zarine
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Posts: 42
By Asura.Zarine 2009-12-02 11:13:51
Fairy.Arduinna said: And I realize tha there's always extremists on both sides, which may make respect difficult, but Atheists/Agnostics rarely get respect from religious groups. We tend to either get some sort of self-righteous pity for not knowing the "truth" or we are informed that not believing in a bunch of fairy tales is going to result in us rotting for all eternity in hell.
The bolded part made me laugh. :P This thread has been totally bashing religious people, Christians taking the brunt of it the last few pages, yet we're the ones who show little respect?
Your last sentence doesn't convey that mutual respect you are spouting about either - "believing in a bunch of fairy tales"....just say that you think we've all lost our mind and get it over with.
Ah well. Discussions on religion are silly. To each their own, just don't be a *** about it.
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Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-02 11:29:15
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-02 11:44:53
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By Seraph.Xdudemanx 2009-12-02 12:35:37
/em falls over in his chair laughing
lmfao
rofl
/em farts
/laugh
Seraph.Bulleta
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Posts: 307
By Seraph.Bulleta 2009-12-02 12:37:35
Maybe you think I am extreme, but think about it. Think about religion on a less dramatic scale of destruction. What has religion taken from you?
Religion has teken away our fundamental rights to freedom.
Religion has taken aaway our rights to choice.
And in some parts of the world, to even show our faces.
Religion demands our blind trust
Religion demands our slavish unquestioning devotion to its rules and rituals
It also demands our hard earned cash!
What have you gotten in return?
Have you gotten peace, at home, or in the world?
End to hunger?
End to war, racism and disease?
No.
Religion grows more aggressive, and it is the ultimate hypocrite.
Religion claims to be all about peace and love and tolerance.
But deep down inside... it's all about:
Prejudice~Superiority~Hatred~and destruction to others.
No wonder the world is in such a mess.
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Seraph.Bulleta
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By Seraph.Bulleta 2009-12-02 12:39:14
Is that a pageant? XD lol
Ramuh.Dasva
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Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-02 12:44:47
Seraph.Bulleta said: Maybe you think I am extreme, but think about it. Think about religion on a less dramatic scale of destruction. What has religion taken from you?
Religion has teken away our fundamental rights to freedom.
Religion has taken aaway our rights to choice. And in some parts of the world, to even show our faces.
Religion demands our blind trust Religion demands our slavish unquestioning devotion to its rules and rituals It also demands our hard earned cash! What have you gotten in return? Have you gotten peace, at home, or in the world? End to hunger? End to war, racism and disease? No. Religion grows more aggressive, and it is the ultimate hypocrite.
Religion claims to be all about peace and love and tolerance. But deep down inside... it's all about: Prejudice~Superiority~Hatred~and destruction to others. No wonder the world is in such a mess. Religion hasn't taken anything from me cept some time. Lots of things have demanded the same stuff from me and with the exception of the military really none of them have gotten it
People are naturally this way religion is just one of the ways to make "ok" or even the right thing to do. But it certainly isn't the only way.
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By Seraph.Xdudemanx 2009-12-02 12:45:09
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-02 14:00:56
Bismarck.Ebonie
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By Bismarck.Ebonie 2009-12-02 14:10:22
I'm not good with the quote thing, so I'll just copy and paste the OP's latest reply. I'm sure you don't want to have the entire thing reposted.
Religion has teken away our fundamental rights to freedom.
The only place this could possibly be true is in the topic of gay marriage. Abortion is very legal, so that isn't really an issue, even if it isn't as legal as some might want. Church and state goes both ways I will agree here. The gov. has no right to tell someone they can not get married based on religious reasons.
Religion has taken aaway our rights to choice.
Right of choice to what? Be specific, this is a very broad statement. You see statements like this in political campaign ads.
And in some parts of the world, to even show our faces.
I'm assuming you're talking about regulating religion in the US. If this is true then that point is mote. Before people try to attach sexist to my argument as they did with racist, I do not agree with this. But the US has no right to demand political and governmental changes of other nations. We are not them.
Religion demands our blind trust
It only demands it if you believe, which is your choice.
Religion demands our slavish unquestioning devotion to its rules and rituals
I have had no such demands placed on me. If I do not like it I leave and nothing is done about it, and I do live in the bible belt.
It also demands our hard earned cash!
I only gave money when I choose too. It isn't a requirement.
What have you gotten in return?
Friends and laughs.
Have you gotten peace, at home, or in the world?
Has your view done such? If so I'm glad. This is a very personal question that has neither right or wrong answers too.
End to hunger?
Again. Has your religion/point of view done this? Hunger will always be a problem and this is again seen in political campaign ads.
End to war, racism and disease?
Same as above.
In the end we're arguing choice. What you think of as evil or stupid should have no effect on others right to choose. Satanist are allowed to worship as they please as long as it doesn't violate any laws.
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-12-02 14:12:11
Seraph.Bulleta said: Religion has teken away our fundamental rights to freedom. Yeah I guess if "dont kill or steal" are really stealing your freedom.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-02 14:19:23
A lot of the people in this world believe we need to regulate drugs and guns to make this a safer place. I have a different insight. I think if you're going to regulate one thing that has the most potential to cause death and destruction, it should be religion. Religion is dangerous, and I don't say this out of bitterness. I was raised catholic. I was never molested, but.. Meh i'm a little insulted lol. I was attractive, so hey it was their loss.
What I have against religion is... They start you when you are so defensless. I was 3 years old when they started pumping this BS into my head. I believed in Santa Clause and the Fairy Godmother, ofcourse I believed in virgin birth, a guy that lived in a whale, and a woman came from a rib. But then, something very important happened to me that made me doubt all of it. I graduated the 6th grade :)
What is so hard about saying "I don't know" !?
Ofcourse there are questions that plaque all of us...
How did we get here?
What happens when we die?
Is there a heaven?
Am I on the list?
Who let the dogs out?
So why would you believe some other human being (Who's brain "I promise you is no bigger or better than your own") when he tells you he knows what happens when you die?
"Don't masturbate now, or you won't get to hang out with Jesus in heaven! How do I know!? I've got a pointy hat! I have a hat, and a robe, I have smoke and a wand!"... It's so gay.
Every Sunday is like a pageant with the costumes, the wands, the goblets, the smoke, and the men kneeling down in front of other men with their mouths open.. Nothing gay about that!
Religion, easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things He does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and anguish, where he will send you to live to burn, and suffer, and choke, and scream, and cry forever and ever untill the end of time. BuT He LoVeS YoU <3 <3 <3 <3
He loves you and he always needs MONEY! He's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, and all wise, but somehow he just can't handle money o.O!! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more $$$$$ Talk about a good bullshit story.. Holyshit!
This is Sincere: When it came to believing in god, I really tried. I wanted to believe that there was a god who created us in his own image, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I tried, but the longer you live, the more you look around, and the more you realize that something is ????d up:
(War Disease Death Destruction Hunger Filth Poverty Torture Crime)
This is not good work. If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. A results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. These are the results you would expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.
Between you and me... In any feasibly ran universe, this guy would have been out on his all powerful ass a long time ago. I say guy, because if there really is a god he has to be a man. No woman could or would ever ???? things up like this ^.^
If there is a god, I think that most reasonable people would agree that he is atleast incompetent, and maybe.. Just maybe.. He doesn't give a shit. Which I admire in a person, and it would explain a lot of these bad results. So instead of being just another mindless-religious robot, mindlessly.. Aimlessly.. Blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompitent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to find something else to worship. Something I could actually count on...
I immidiatly thought of the sun. Overnight, just like that. I became a sun worshipper, but not overnight because you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning....
Several reasons...
First of all, I can see the sun. (Unlike a few other gods I know). I'm big on that, if I can see something it kind of helps the credibility. So everyday I can see the sun as it gives me everything I need: Light, Heat, Food, Flowers in the Park, Reflections in the Lake, the occasional skin cancer but hey.. Atleast there are no crucifixions and setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worshipping is simple. There are no mysteries, no miracles, no pageantry, noone asks for money, no songs to learn, and we don't have a building we gather together in once a week to compare clothing.
Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? Its god's will~? It will be done. Fine, but if it's god's will, he is going to do what he wants to anyway... Why the hell pray for it in the first place? Couldn't you just skip the paying, and just go straight to god's will?
I do believe prayers are answered though.. Maybe at a 50% rate! Half the time I get what I want. Half of the time I don't. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the wishing well, the rabbit's foot, the mojo man, same as the voodoo lady that tells you fortune by squeezing a goat's testicle. It's all the same.. 50/50... So just pick your superstition, make a wish, and sit back and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to the bible for moral lessons, and literary qualities... I'll suggest a few other stories for you... You might want to look at:
~The Three Little Pigs (It has a nice happy ending)
~Little Red Riding Hood (Although it has that X-rated part where the wolf actually eats the grandmother)
~Humpty Dumpty (All the king's horses, and all the king's men couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God.)
If there is a God, may he strike me dead!....
...
...
?
o.O Nothing happened... lol
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