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Regulate Religion, Not Guns.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
Serveur: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 18:50:44
Ramuh.Dasva said: Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Fairy.Vylandra said: I think, therefore I'm atheist. No, you simply fall into one of the categories that I listed above. Which is that you are a tool. By your definition above it is those that claim a religion or believe in nothing. However Sam_Harris said: "Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious belief."
Too bad that no human is capable of stating the obvious without their own personal bias. Everything is already distorted once it is processed by your *** up brain.
Once conciseness is attained true objectivity is lost. If true objectivity is required to be an atheist then all atheists are *** fail.
Bismarck.Ebonie
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Bismarck.Ebonie 2009-12-02 18:51:03
Ramuh.Dasva said: Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Fairy.Vylandra said: I think, therefore I'm atheist. No, you simply fall into one of the categories that I listed above. Which is that you are a tool. By your definition above it is those that claim a religion or believe in nothing. However Sam_Harris said: "Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious belief."
Admission of the obvious? You believe that there is nothing, which IS a philosophy.
phi·los·o·phy (f-ls-f)
n. pl. phi·los·o·phies
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
Note number 7. Which in the case of the case argued would be belief instead of beliefs.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 18:51:54
Seraph.Bulleta said: You can't know all if you don't exist^^
Prove to me that you exist and your not just a figment of my imagination.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2009-12-02 18:52:39
Just food for thought:
If you have people accross the globe
of various diffenent cultures languages ect...
Its odd how almost every culture since man
walked the earth believes in a higher power
and a after life. The human being is
half physical/spiritual just to emphasize
on 1 aspect and to totally dismiss the other
is crazy.
 Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2009-12-02 18:54:18
How do i quote exactly? i never tried it <.< sorry for being a posting noob!
 Lakshmi.Aaroca
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 345
By Lakshmi.Aaroca 2009-12-02 18:54:27
In religion God is a perfect deity. No matter how hard you think, nothing is perfect. So no, you wouldn't know if he exists.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
Serveur: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 18:54:27
Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
You ask for a piece of gum.
I KNOW! that if I give you a piece of gum you are going to eat it.
I give it to you and you do eat it.
Does that mean the choice to eat the gum was no longer yours?
Gilgamesh.Andras
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2009-12-02 18:54:47
p.s. i mean with those boxes not the "" for u smartasses out there
Lakshmi.Aaroca
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 345
By Lakshmi.Aaroca 2009-12-02 18:55:13
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
You ask for a piece of gum.
I KNOW! that if I give you a piece of gum you are going to eat it.
I give it to you and you do eat it.
Does that mean the choice to eat the gum was no longer yours? You don't know.
 Leviathan.Marzanna
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 123
By Leviathan.Marzanna 2009-12-02 18:55:24
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Titan.Tails said: Faith is believing in what we cannot see. If you could prove God's existence, you have completely defeated the purpose of faith.
I would be a hypocrite if I said "I have faith that God doesn't exist." because as you said so well, there's no way to know for sure. My question is: How are you less of a hypocrite for saying "God certainly does exist." ? lol I know... You have no idea. You just believe, and you're proud of it.
Why don't you have faith in something more useful? There are many other things that you can't prove besides God. Things that may actually have some use. Let's have faith in all those things, because who know... it may be true! (that's called being "naive") Ok, I'll stop insulting you.
Sorry.
I can't really speak for others but I myself have never said "God certainly does exist" or anything similar, that would just be hypocritical. Also I don't quite understand as my "religion" for lack of a better word, is quite different from the main stream, in that it's not really believing in one big dude up in the sky that made everything or whatever. I mean no disrespect to those who believe in such things, its your choice, it's just not what I choose to believe.
If anything I would liken it to Buddhism, though it's not quite the same thing. To go into it and explain would take way to long. But it's more about the way you think about things and so forth, and I see no real negative in believing in this kind of thing. Again, can't really speak for Christians etc as I was brought up quite differently.
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Posts: 2647
By Hades.Stefanos 2009-12-02 18:55:40
Gilgamesh.Andras said: How do i quote exactly? i never tried it <.< sorry for being a posting noob!
On top of the person's post there's a Quote button, hit that and it should quote the person's post.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 89
By Odin.Equivocator 2009-12-02 18:55:56
Absence of proof isn't proof of absence.
I come from a pretty religious family, Sister and mother still go to church every week.
I chose not to at about the age of 12, it's not really my thing and I don't share the same belief structure of the organised religions. My sister enjoys it, she has friends there, she finds comfort there. Is that really such a bad thing?
I don’t see why so many self proclaimed atheists are so against the idea of religion. Many of the churches do great work both in the local community and abroad, I've even helped out at charity days and other events for my Sisters church even though I would associate myself as an atheist.
Sure there are hundreds, thousands, millions of people that do very, very bad things in the name of their God. There are also just as many people doing it for themselves.
The only ones I get upset at are the hypocrites and preacher type people that try to convince me that I'm going to hell, that I'm a sinner, that I cant be a good person if I dont follow their particular iteration of 'God'. Many of these people still smoke/drink and do all manner of things set out as Evil/wrong by the very bible they claim to live by.
I cant stand anyone that takes the Bible literally either. The Earth isn't only 6000 years old, The first Human wasn’t created to live in a perfect garden, the second wasn't made from his rib, You shouldn't stone your wife, There wasn't ever a man that lived inside a whale. They are fables, stories, nothing more. Most probably produced as an attempt to impart wisdom and protocols for social interaction. Even if God is real, the Bible isn't the word of god, it was written by Man. Man is foulable.
Chances are nobody of either side is going to read this and try to see other perspectives anyway, so I guess, flame on.
Gilgamesh.Andras
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Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2009-12-02 18:56:05
didnt see that, thanks
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 18:56:10
Lakshmi.Aaroca said: In religion God is a perfect deity. No matter how hard you think, nothing is perfect. So no, you wouldn't know if he exists.
This statement doesn't make sense.
You claim nothing is perfect. If nothing is perfect then how can you know what is "perfect"? If you can't identify "perfect" how can you claim that nothing has achieved it?
 Asura.Zarine
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 42
By Asura.Zarine 2009-12-02 18:56:46
Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
If God made me do some of the things I did when I was younger, he sure has one sick sense of humor D:
Gilgamesh.Andras
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2009-12-02 18:57:39
Asura.Zarine said: Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
If God made me do some of the things I did when I was younger, he sure has one sick sense of humor D:
LOL
 Ragnarok.Psyence
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Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2009-12-02 18:59:07
Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
The bible says God gave free will to men (Genesis somethin) and I;m pretty sure a lot of religions go along those lines... And most people who don't believe in God also claim to have free will. Sociology shows us that most of our decisions are driven by our environment, but the fact is we can sometimes chose our environment and therefore decide who will be around to influence us, so we do have some decision making to do after all. Find a better question for a debate, not one that everybody agrees on! :P
Lakshmi.Aaroca
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By Lakshmi.Aaroca 2009-12-02 19:00:14
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Lakshmi.Aaroca said: In religion God is a perfect deity. No matter how hard you think, nothing is perfect. So no, you wouldn't know if he exists.
This statement doesn't make sense.
You claim nothing is perfect. If nothing is perfect then how can you know what is "perfect"? If you can't identify "perfect" how can you claim that nothing has achieved it? No one knows what perfect is, that's the point. To say that somthing is 'perfect' mean's theres no way in which it can get better.
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 3723
By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2009-12-02 19:00:17
Just scanning the topic real quick, a thought:
Odin.Equivocator said: I don’t see why so many self proclaimed atheists are so against the idea of religion. Many of the churches do great work both in the local community and abroad, I've even helped out at charity days and other events for my Sisters church even though I would associate myself as an atheist.
Sure there are hundreds, thousands, millions of people that do very, very bad things in the name of their God. There are also just as many people doing it for themselves.
I really agree and relate to this pretty well. Even after I became an atheist, I continued to be an alter server for a year because it felt right to help out. I do all sorts of work with the religious clubs at my school in our annual international fair, as well as with all sorts of cultures. People have to stop and realize that it doesn't matter where we hail from or who we hail, if anyone at all, and realize that at the end of the day I'm just as human as you are.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
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Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-02 19:00:18
Odin.Equivocator said: Chances are nobody of either side is going to read this and try to see other perspectives anyway, so I guess, flame on.
I read it, and I agree with you.
To each their own, but don't try to shove your personal beliefs or disbeliefs down my throat. (Not you literally, just "you" in a general sense)
Lakshmi.Aaroca
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 345
By Lakshmi.Aaroca 2009-12-02 19:02:26
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
The bible says God gave free will to men (Genesis somethin) and I;m pretty sure a lot of religions go along those lines... And most people who don't believe in God also claim to have free will. Sociology shows us that most of our decisions are driven by our environment, but the fact is we can sometimes chose our environment and therefore decide who will be around to influence us, so we do have some decision making to do after all. Find a better question for a debate, not one that everybody agrees on! :P The bible is never a valid point of an argument against or for religion.
Also damn! I thought I could trick everyone into liking each other sshhh!
Ramuh.Dasva
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-02 19:03:30
Bismarck.Ebonie said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Fairy.Vylandra said: I think, therefore I'm atheist. No, you simply fall into one of the categories that I listed above. Which is that you are a tool. By your definition above it is those that claim a religion or believe in nothing. However Sam_Harris said: "Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious belief." Admission of the obvious? You believe that there is nothing, which IS a philosophy.
phi·los·o·phy (f-ls-f) n. pl. phi·los·o·phies
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
Note number 7. Which in the case of the case argued would be belief instead of beliefs. 1. You have no idea what I believe
2. Not believing in god does not even come close to not believing anything. Once again "Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious."
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 19:03:57
Lakshmi.Aaroca said: Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Lakshmi.Aaroca said: New argument just for my entertainment!
If God exists; do humans act on their own free will?
You ask for a piece of gum.
I KNOW! that if I give you a piece of gum you are going to eat it.
I give it to you and you do eat it.
Does that mean the choice to eat the gum was no longer yours? You don't know.
Prove it. heh
How bout if I put food in front of an ant. And I predict that it will pick up the food and carry it back to the ant pile? I "know" it will do this. Does that mean no other option existed?
If God exists in the manner in which you are questioning "does free will exist". Just because God can predict with 100% accuracy your actions and reactions does not mean the choices are now somehow gone. It just means that in relation to God you are a trivial creature that is easily predictable.
[+]
Serveur: Odin
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Posts: 89
By Odin.Equivocator 2009-12-02 19:05:22
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra said: realize that at the end of the day I'm just as human as you are.
Thats pretty much the crux of it. All we have is each other.
Wow... that sounded really gay. NTTAWWT.
Ragnarok.Psyence
Serveur: Ragnarok
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Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2009-12-02 19:06:56
Leviathan.Marzanna said: Ragnarok.Psyence said: Titan.Tails said: Faith is believing in what we cannot see. If you could prove God's existence, you have completely defeated the purpose of faith.
I would be a hypocrite if I said "I have faith that God doesn't exist." because as you said so well, there's no way to know for sure. My question is: How are you less of a hypocrite for saying "God certainly does exist." ? lol I know... You have no idea. You just believe, and you're proud of it.
Why don't you have faith in something more useful? There are many other things that you can't prove besides God. Things that may actually have some use. Let's have faith in all those things, because who know... it may be true! (that's called being "naive") Ok, I'll stop insulting you.
Sorry.
I can't really speak for others but I myself have never said "God certainly does exist" or anything similar, that would just be hypocritical. Also I don't quite understand as my "religion" for lack of a better word, is quite different from the main stream, in that it's not really believing in one big dude up in the sky that made everything or whatever. I mean no disrespect to those who believe in such things, its your choice, it's just not what I choose to believe.
If anything I would liken it to Buddhism, though it's not quite the same thing. To go into it and explain would take way to long. But it's more about the way you think about things and so forth, and I see no real negative in believing in this kind of thing. Again, can't really speak for Christians etc as I was brought up quite differently.
Well, Buddhism, out of every "religions", is the one that makes the most sense to me, but it also isn't really a religion (as in the definition of all that we despise from most organized religions).
As far as I know, it's more of a philosophy (that's a compliment for ya). Not that it's important to have a religion but if you're going to have one, it sounds much less narrow minded than the other ones.
There's some questioning involved, as far as I know. Your reply makes you sound pretty open minded, if that could serve as an example.
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
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Posts: 3723
By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2009-12-02 19:06:57
Oh, and:
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Sociology shows us that most of our decisions are driven by our environment, but the fact is we can sometimes chose our environment and therefore decide who will be around to influence us, so we do have some decision making to do after all. Find a better question for a debate, not one that everybody agrees on! :P
Yeah, but anthropology and philology teaches us that "choosing environment" is a survival instinct. A lot of what we think are "choices" are actually instincts; look for a time before homo habilis and after, as well as the development of the neocortex and you will see some scary, scary ***.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 19:07:16
Lakshmi.Aaroca said: Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: Lakshmi.Aaroca said: In religion God is a perfect deity. No matter how hard you think, nothing is perfect. So no, you wouldn't know if he exists.
This statement doesn't make sense.
You claim nothing is perfect. If nothing is perfect then how can you know what is "perfect"? If you can't identify "perfect" how can you claim that nothing has achieved it? No one knows what perfect is, that's the point. To say that somthing is 'perfect' mean's theres no way in which it can get better.
"better" is subjective. So in reality you are saying that you don't know what perfect is and therefore cannot judge if something is perfect or not. But why do you subject all others to your inadequacy?
Gilgamesh.Andras
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Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2009-12-02 19:08:36
Idunno about this all, but i still think we're bitching.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-12-02 19:09:23
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra said: Oh, and:
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Sociology shows us that most of our decisions are driven by our environment, but the fact is we can sometimes chose our environment and therefore decide who will be around to influence us, so we do have some decision making to do after all. Find a better question for a debate, not one that everybody agrees on! :P
Yeah, but anthropology and philology teaches us that "choosing environment" is a survival instinct. A lot of what we think are "choices" are actually instincts; look for a time before homo habilis and after, as well as the development of the neocortex and you will see some scary, scary ***.
Humans don't actually have instincts, but as I stated before, maybe people aren't as unpredictable as everyone thinks.
Ramuh.Dasva
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Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-02 19:09:56
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said: How bout if I put food in front of an ant. And I predict that it will pick up the food and carry it back to the ant pile? I "know" it will do this. Does that mean no other option existed?
If God exists in the manner in which you are questioning "does free will exist". Just because God can predict with 100% accuracy your actions and reactions does not mean the choices are now somehow gone. It just means that in relation to God you are a trivial creature that is easily predictable. Just cause there are technically other options doesn't mean there really are. Technically I could chose to tell the guy asking for my money with a gun to my head to piss off after I saw him shoot 4 other people. And if everything is already 100% vs say your pretty sure do you really have a choice? Frankly even if there is no god or knowledge of the future does anyone really have a choice? Do you think if we rewound time 1 billion times that anyone would really act differently under the exact same circumstances.
A lot of the people in this world believe we need to regulate drugs and guns to make this a safer place. I have a different insight. I think if you're going to regulate one thing that has the most potential to cause death and destruction, it should be religion. Religion is dangerous, and I don't say this out of bitterness. I was raised catholic. I was never molested, but.. Meh i'm a little insulted lol. I was attractive, so hey it was their loss.
What I have against religion is... They start you when you are so defensless. I was 3 years old when they started pumping this BS into my head. I believed in Santa Clause and the Fairy Godmother, ofcourse I believed in virgin birth, a guy that lived in a whale, and a woman came from a rib. But then, something very important happened to me that made me doubt all of it. I graduated the 6th grade :)
What is so hard about saying "I don't know" !?
Ofcourse there are questions that plaque all of us...
How did we get here?
What happens when we die?
Is there a heaven?
Am I on the list?
Who let the dogs out?
So why would you believe some other human being (Who's brain "I promise you is no bigger or better than your own") when he tells you he knows what happens when you die?
"Don't masturbate now, or you won't get to hang out with Jesus in heaven! How do I know!? I've got a pointy hat! I have a hat, and a robe, I have smoke and a wand!"... It's so gay.
Every Sunday is like a pageant with the costumes, the wands, the goblets, the smoke, and the men kneeling down in front of other men with their mouths open.. Nothing gay about that!
Religion, easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things He does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and anguish, where he will send you to live to burn, and suffer, and choke, and scream, and cry forever and ever untill the end of time. BuT He LoVeS YoU <3 <3 <3 <3
He loves you and he always needs MONEY! He's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, and all wise, but somehow he just can't handle money o.O!! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more $$$$$ Talk about a good bullshit story.. Holyshit!
This is Sincere: When it came to believing in god, I really tried. I wanted to believe that there was a god who created us in his own image, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I tried, but the longer you live, the more you look around, and the more you realize that something is ????d up:
(War Disease Death Destruction Hunger Filth Poverty Torture Crime)
This is not good work. If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. A results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. These are the results you would expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.
Between you and me... In any feasibly ran universe, this guy would have been out on his all powerful ass a long time ago. I say guy, because if there really is a god he has to be a man. No woman could or would ever ???? things up like this ^.^
If there is a god, I think that most reasonable people would agree that he is atleast incompetent, and maybe.. Just maybe.. He doesn't give a shit. Which I admire in a person, and it would explain a lot of these bad results. So instead of being just another mindless-religious robot, mindlessly.. Aimlessly.. Blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompitent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to find something else to worship. Something I could actually count on...
I immidiatly thought of the sun. Overnight, just like that. I became a sun worshipper, but not overnight because you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning....
Several reasons...
First of all, I can see the sun. (Unlike a few other gods I know). I'm big on that, if I can see something it kind of helps the credibility. So everyday I can see the sun as it gives me everything I need: Light, Heat, Food, Flowers in the Park, Reflections in the Lake, the occasional skin cancer but hey.. Atleast there are no crucifixions and setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worshipping is simple. There are no mysteries, no miracles, no pageantry, noone asks for money, no songs to learn, and we don't have a building we gather together in once a week to compare clothing.
Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? Its god's will~? It will be done. Fine, but if it's god's will, he is going to do what he wants to anyway... Why the hell pray for it in the first place? Couldn't you just skip the paying, and just go straight to god's will?
I do believe prayers are answered though.. Maybe at a 50% rate! Half the time I get what I want. Half of the time I don't. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the wishing well, the rabbit's foot, the mojo man, same as the voodoo lady that tells you fortune by squeezing a goat's testicle. It's all the same.. 50/50... So just pick your superstition, make a wish, and sit back and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to the bible for moral lessons, and literary qualities... I'll suggest a few other stories for you... You might want to look at:
~The Three Little Pigs (It has a nice happy ending)
~Little Red Riding Hood (Although it has that X-rated part where the wolf actually eats the grandmother)
~Humpty Dumpty (All the king's horses, and all the king's men couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God.)
If there is a God, may he strike me dead!....
...
...
?
o.O Nothing happened... lol
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