Damage Question (Resolve Ambiguity)

Kraken club wasnt always gil cap.... it was sub 100m in the late 20-teens, and was sub 200~300m in the 2021/22 period, then it skyrocketed to gil cap and stayed there.

Two things can be true at the same time. Saying a solo player cant accumulate 1 billion reasonably isnt wrong, but its also true that lots of players are old and simply had it from some time ago, and decided to keep it

Now show us the value of gil over time.

KC is one of those commodities that cant be flooded to the market. So as more people accumulate gil, as there is less to spend on, demand goes up but supply remains steady.

I remember doing some testing for S&Gs, (don't remember if I put it through the python tool or not), but in limited testing, Ridill actually was the 2nd best OH for RNG SB meme build, which isn't at all hard to get.

I don't know what everyone else is rambling about, but back to the question: as far as I know, additional stats on ranged weapons and ammo DO count for normal melee attacks and non-ranged WS, the same way the reverse also applies (melee weapons stats affect ranged attacks/ws, with some conditions, "Main Hand ONLY"). The damage rating on the ammo has zero effect on melee attacks or melee WS.

Examples:

Hauksbok Bullet's MAB+40 will indeed give the same MAB effect if you use Aeolian Edge, for example. The same applies to Hauksbok Arrow's +20% WSD for something like Savage Blade (which is kinda why Savage RNG is busted with TP Bonus bow). Bayeux Bullet's -50 Enmity applies to all attacks, not just ranged attacks, though you wouldn't shoot it anyways. You effectively have capped enmity reduction for any action. But the ammo's damage rating does not impact your melee damage in any way.

Even Molybdosis's Critical hit damage +10% affects Evisceration damage or normal melee attacks, for example, even though the stat is on a ranged weapon. I can't recall if something like Tauret works for Ranged attacks, though (these are reverse examples)

However, some examples don't always work, at least in reverse order. Naegling's attack bonus doesn't apply to ranged attacks. Tenzen HTBF's "TP Bonus" Bow doesn't work for melee WS. However, augmented "TP Bonus +" gear does work for every WS, but those are special exceptions because the augment is unique. I know you specifically asked about ammunition, but I'm mentioning weapons too since it's semi related.

Not being sarcastic, I'm just not sure how you can't tell this; the purpose of any STAT-boosting ammunition above like I mentioned is clearly intended for non-ranged WS or abilities like Aeolian Edge or Quick Draw etc, and NOT shooting (exception is QD), given by the fact that the item is Rare/Ex and costs a lot of Domain Invasion Points, or can only be used once every long cooldown. Ask yourself why would SE release ra/ex ammo that you can only carry one of, if the stat is only applied when the singular bullet is shot? You'd have to farm more points every time just for one WS (unless you Unlimited Shot). That wouldn't make any sense.

Anyways, as far as a "a definitive answer to whether an ammo piece for a ranged weapon's DMG and stats are counted into regular melee attacks and non-ranged WS attacks", the stats count for damage calculation, the bullet or ammo damage rating does not. That's how I understand it.

I used to offhand Ridill on my BST before I got the club and it was for sure a decent offhand as far as TP speed goes. RNG has a huge accuracy advantage over other jobs to where it won't suffer as harsh with a non-ilvl sub weapon, and gets way better gear (Tatenashi +1). I mentioned it a while ago in one of the BST forums

Can you explain to me then why everyone was trying to throw me in the wringer a few months ago for suggesting to people to not waste gil and time upgrading a +1 neck and hold out for the +2 if gil is so easy to get?

And I agree that gil is easy to get.

I mean, I don't think most people should be using +1 necks because it's pissing away gil, so it's not a position I'm in the habit of defending, but...if you're getting RP for free (like leeching in Maletaru's dynamis runs), then spending 300k-5m on a neck you can use for a few months/years until you have the gil to upgrade to a +2 isn't too bad.

Like I said above though, it's not shocking that some people have multiple billions and would never, ever consider a +1 neck while other, very different people, have sub-10m and need to use Su4 weapons and +1 necks because they're broke or have other priorities. They're different people.

It's a bit like asking why some people drive 2002 Corollas when Taylor Swift flies her private jet to her hair appointment. I don't feel like it needs to be explained.


You know there's some grey area between single player and 6botter, right? Like...the guy you're responding to? Seems like a strange false dichotomy to bring up, in this circumstance.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am one of those persons who initially bought +1s for many jobs (still have some for a few that I haven't upgraded, because it doesn't make much of a difference for my sets). My reasoning is because I prefer to raise most of my jobs up to an appropriate standard at similar times instead of focusing on a few and others get left behind and have to tend to them later, and if I don't have the gil, I will settle on lower quality gear to get some relative improvement rather than none, but can always be improved later.

I just finished a Stage 4 Gae Buide, and just the other week upgraded my +1 collar to +2. Felt nothing.

Back when I was in a dynamis LS, I purchased +2 necks for only a couple of my fave jobs that I wanted to improve, but didn't have the gil to buy them for the other 15+ jobs. I settled on +1s for those jobs, particularly when I was asked to come a job to help the group (support, healer etc). I preferred to get some RP on a +1 neck that I could use for the job in the meantime rather than not get any RP at all. As to why I didn't just "buy the +2 and RP that"? Because I didn't have the gil at the time, obviously . Yes, I could have "Saved money for +2", but I would have also forfeited RP on any runs in between when I was finally able to get the +2. The cost of the +1 and the immediate benefit of the ranked +1 on the jobs was more significant than the 1-5m +1 neck that I "lost" when (if) it got replaced later. So it was simply a matter of getting use out of an item temporarily. It's not a waste in my mind, if it helps improve my character even a little. It's just steps to progression.

I did the exact same thing with NQ abjuration and HQ abjuration gear. Most of that gear is pretty outdated nowadays and you can't get your money back for it (though you can switch augments). Some pieces still hold value, but I've tossed more (once) "Expensive" items than I can count, but I am not losing any sleep over any money that I "lost". The item did what it did when I needed it. Don't need it anymore. Buy something else.

Speaking of wasting gil, I don't see it like that in this video game. I know people like to talk about stuff like Opportunity cost and better return on your gil and all that, but I simply do not care, and those conversations are kind of boring to me. I play the game as a video game, and I see nothing wrong with purchasing or acquiring one item that can be replaced later on with a better version later on. Gil is virtual currency, it's just a number I use to get things done while I play. I don't play to "maximize my gil earnings" or anything like that. Other people differ. I don't look at it as "lost gil", because I got use out of the item when I needed it, and replaced it when I could. It would be no different than if my car's tire blew out and I needed a new one, but didn't have 400$ at the time. I might buy a donut to last me a few weeks, but eventually replace the donut with a real tire later on. I don't care that the donut cost me 75$ and I can't ever get that back, because it got me through the time I needed it to do whatever I needed it for. It served a purpose and I am happy with the temporary result it provided.

idk, you might have a different perspective.


Gil is easy to get, but it takes effort. Sparks/Ambu Monthly/Selling Orbs ROEs/Swart or Moonbow Stones, Segments daily. It's a lot of work, but all of it is relatively easy to complete. Truth is, most players don't want to put in the amount of effort to earn that kind of gil. I think if you max all gil-earning activities monthly, you can get like 120M or something. Again, without ever needing to merc Bumba RP.

Often times when I was taking a new job up, the +1 is comparatively dirt cheap, So I'd get that and spend some significant time on the job and decide if I really liked playing it before I'd buy the +2.

I bought a Musa, R25'd it, bought the +2 neck, ended up not liking the job enough to really play it, so huge waste that could have been avoided on my part.

Leave it to a galka to ask the dumbest question that spawns two pages of atupid arguments

How could you be on these forums since '08 and be at all surprised by this?

I really didn't mean to start arguments, but let me further clarify:

1. I Said "bullet" not "arrow," intentionally. There are 3 Hauksbok ammo pieces, and the one a COR can use is a bullet.

2. The bullet has 300 DMG, 10 AGI and 40 MAB. I'm asking if the 300 DMG is counted in melee attacks and non-ranged weaponskills, or do they ONLY apply to the ranged attacks and weaponskills.

3. I'd further like to ask if the 40 MAB would be calculated into any regular elemental magic attack.

Leave it to you to take the time out of your life to needlessly reply anyway.

Thank you. As for why SE made a bullet you can only carry one of, I'm guessing for Quickdraw since it doesn't expend ammo. But you answered my question. DMG no, stats yes.

I believe my statement stands.

I'm sure you do. Yet it was Buukki's that was appreciated.

Answered you on page 1 brother, but glad you got your answer.

It is kind of funny though, that there's still questions floating around if bullet damage equivalent to REMAs applies to autos.

FFS

DMG from ranged and ammo slots ONLY applies to ranged attacks and ranged weaponskills, WSD on the ranged slot only applies to ranaged weaponskills, other stats like STR/MAB/MACC/STP etc apply to all attacks/weaponskills/spells etc. TP Bonus on the magian ranged weapons applies to all weaponskills but the TP bonus on the Aeonic ranged only applies to ranged weaponskills.

3. Is easily tested go Aeolian Edge nekid with and without the bullet and notice the increase in damage.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Base_Damage

If you had actually bothered looking for yourself.

Iono, I think it would be kind of obvious if the bullets 300 base damage would count into your melee WS or auto attacks considering Naegling has only 166 base damage.

Yup I frequently attach bullets to my swords do triple their base damage. It just makes sense

Gunblades

Wait
Thats why I struggled with FF8. I didnt know the bullets in the gunblade mattered.

Hidden triple dmg procs

So anyways
I spent the last two days getting my main DD an Accipiter. Geared it up as best I could for memeblade and did two climbs:


Taking RNG BEST KCLUBBER UR FKN RAGEBAITER WTF over SAM was 65 seconds faster on the fighting portions of the entire climb and if I did it again without the *** (did entire NW1 without songs, killed an extra mob on NW4), it would likely be slower or on par.

Color me unimpressed considering the requirement of a BILLION DOLLAR Kraken Club for the setup.

inb4: "you sabotaged it on purpose"
Actually no, I didnt get the TP Bonus bow just to sabotage it. Though I would have changed two things in my WS set:
I used Scout's Gorget+2, should have switched that for Bastok Medal, but I was too lazy to pull from storage. I also should have swapped Aminon Earring +1 for Sherida or Ishvara (or something else?), I doubt I was making use of any/all of that PDL available.


I stand by what I initially said. RNG TP Bonus bow is not as important as COR TP Bonus gun. Probably looks good on individual parses and on the sims when you're letting all that overflow damage raise your personal DPS, but looks less good when you look at the full picture.

This is the problem, all it offers is SAVA GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Sam can push its own attack up to get closer to cap / make use of PDL
COR can do rolls
WAR can do warcry for a sweet TP Bonus across the party
DRK can stun (and that is worth its weight in gold on pixies in temenos)

I never said people should buy a KC for their RNG to out-damage their SAM. I said RNG is a beast with KC, which it is. As you can see, it beat a DRK, a WAR, and a COR in DPS. Seems like a pretty good DD...

TBH I bought KC to do Yoichi trials. Gil is basically pointless past a certain level, so who gives a *** what it costs?

Anyway...yeah RNG is quite niche and not something people should level to replace their WAR. Of course. If you are a RNG, the bow/arrow/KC combo is the best SB setup and you can get and it's quite nice. Are we...not getting the best gear for our jobs now...?

If you want to be lazy, you can use a TP bonus gun on RNG to save an inventory space. Bow is still better though, so if you want to min/max, it's better and you should make one if you take RNG seriously.

lol


The whole point of this is to slap the WSD arrow in the ammo slot

So you mentioned overflow damage for the SB RNG situation, but don't consider it for scenario 2? What WS are the SAM, DRK, COR, BRD and WAR using, are those WS incapable of creating fake damage?

I see close to 600k SC damage in scenario 2, nearly triple the SC damage in scenario 1 with the RNG (the RNG has almost no SC damage added in scenario 1). Is this all valid damage, or is some of it overflow? Also, the COR and BRD are both using Savage Blade across both parses, but they are carrying MORE damage across the second run than the first run, and still it's 65 seconds slower? This data isn't showing what you think it is.

I mean you can split hairs whichever way you want and say kclub isn't worth it, and RNG kclub isn't a necessity by any means I agree. You guys can debate that if you want. But by your own numbers, kclub tp bonus bow RNG beat your next best DD by 300k and sped your run up by an entire minute without any other advantages like Prime aftermath or SC damage contributing. Judge that for yourself, but you'd have to be straight up blind to ignore how powerful that is as a DD. If killing an entire minute faster is not significant just by changing out one job (bring 3 kc rngs, you get 3 full minute improvement!), then idk what is.

I dont think you read the entire thing. I said I killed an extra mob in the SAM parse.

RNG parse: 16,791,751 dmg / 116 mobs = 144756.47 HP / mob
SAM parse: 16,907,790 dmg / 117 mobs = 144511.02 HP / mob

More importantly, you're making wild assumptions. BRD's not even using Savage Blade lol. I keep Carn on because the extra Lullaby duration is the difference between any extra mobs waking up and event skipping me at the portal and staying asleep. BRD gains TP from regain and getting smacked on pull. I can usually get two WS's off instead of one Savage Blade and constantly swapping weapons.

And here we go making things up, claiming I've said things that I I have never said. Allow me to remind you what this is about:

Also, if you're wondering why I decided to throw in a parse