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Limbus 2025
 Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11114
By Asura.Sechs 2026-01-14 07:41:02
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Vastly reduced points for healing = nobody comes on WHM. I mean, what incentive would someone have to come on anything that's not your strongest DD, with the current system, going by your logic?
And likewise for the following points you quoted.
I get the impression, please correct me if I'm wrong, that you misread my examples which anyway, again, were like silly examples and not the solution to the issue.
I think you read my word as if I was suggesting that system in place of the current one, and not in addition.
I'm fine with the current system (damage = points, damage done by party/ally members count as well).
The silly stuff I suggested were to add to that, not to replace.
By Firebrandt 2026-01-14 07:52:46
We are truly through the looking glass, looking back on the HNM era with rose-tinted glasses and arguing that that design was less exclusive than a server wide non-instanced battlefield
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11114
By Asura.Sechs 2026-01-14 08:22:30
We are truly through the looking glass, looking back on the HNM era with rose-tinted glasses and arguing that that design was less exclusive than a server wide non-instanced battlefield If you're talking about me, while I sorta (almost) enjoyed the hnm scene back then, I would NEVER wish for things today to take inspiration from that era in ANY form.
But I do know a couple of purple on these boards who would, poor souls :-P
[+]
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3983
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-01-14 08:48:55
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Vastly reduced points for healing = nobody comes on WHM. I mean, what incentive would someone have to come on anything that's not your strongest DD, with the current system, going by your logic?
And likewise for the following points you quoted.
I get the impression, please correct me if I'm wrong, that you misread my examples which anyway, again, were like silly examples and not the solution to the issue.
I think you read my word as if I was suggesting that system in place of the current one, and not in addition.
I'm fine with the current system (damage = points, damage done by party/ally members count as well).
The silly stuff I suggested were to add to that, not to replace.
The incentive to going on other jobs is to empower your team to be able to do damage, because you get full points for them.
If you go on 18 DDs, your entire alliance does ***damage, dies, and then you get 0 points.
If you go with a balanced party, you properly heal, buff, and tank for your DDs, then they can do a bunch of damage and you get a lot of points.
The other night for Omega we were missing a tank and RDM, so I switched to PLD and RDM. I tanked while the other parties did damage, and I got a shitload of points on my support jobs. Because the system is designed that way.
The answer to "which job should I go to fight the NMs on?" is:
Whichever job will enable your alliance to do as well as possible.
It could be a buffer, a tank, a healer, a DD, a RDM, or whatever. It incentivizes you to play logically rather than farm points like...DI...and just AFK and spam crits, for example.
By Felgarr 2026-01-14 09:57:08
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »It could be a buffer, a tank, a healer, a DD, a RDM, or whatever. It incentivizes you to play logically rather than farm points like...DI...and just AFK and spam crits, for example.
You're right and I agree with everything you've said. But logic goes out the window with your average FFXI-enjoyer. I just wish, for once, SE would flip the script, i.e. ...WHMs get +10% points.
When all things are equal, on average, a person wants to come DD first, and everything else that is required to perform well ...comes second. (It's usually up to event organizers or group leaders to come as the necessary, utility jobs, if others don't have them geared or are not even remotely interested in it).
Again, I'm not saying every one is like this, but it's common and it's been this way for 20+ years.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6940
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2026-01-14 10:27:18
i.e. ...WHMs get +10% points. Guess what happens when WHM gets a bonus?
You have 0 tanks, 0 buffers, 0 DPS because everyone wants the 10% bonus.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-01-14 10:38:16
There wouldn't be enough DPS or mob stability regardless to even make the 10% healing bonus worth it anyways, so it's moot either way. But they certainly could create some calculated formula to give points for actions performed within the battle because they do it in Reives/Domain Invasion. But because they're lazy (and it's just simpler), the formula is just "damage". Which is fine, they did it for Dynamis Wave 3 bosses, and you need a healer to support the tanks and healers while they kill the boss, and everyone has a progress bar, so every single person in the group benefits no matter the job.
So just make a balanced party and support the DDs and tanks while you heal; you scratch their back, they scratch yours, everyone wins, and in the end, nobody really contributes more to point progress than others
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-01-14 10:42:52
Took me 8h to take Ultima from 86% to 31% with just my 6box. Then another 2h to kill it with another 6box person. I'm pretty sure its around 1%HP on Ultima is like 2.3-2.4% Unique data bar, because I ended up with 1 full bar and 98% of another one, but I missed like overall 6% of the HP when I was dead.
So nobody is getting boatloads of extra Unique Data from these NMs for it to really matter significantly, unless you personally invest many hours of your time and have the means to clear them on your own (unlikely). The more people you have, the faster it goes, but the less points every individual alliance gets, so it's not looking like a significant addition to boxes/week for most players (non multi-box), just maybe 1-2 extra across both zones. A meager reward but a reward nonetheless.
Bahamut.Bojack
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2191
By Bahamut.Bojack 2026-01-14 11:02:36
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Vastly reduced points for healing = nobody comes on WHM. I mean, what incentive would someone have to come on anything that's not your strongest DD, with the current system, going by your logic?
And likewise for the following points you quoted.
I get the impression, please correct me if I'm wrong, that you misread my examples which anyway, again, were like silly examples and not the solution to the issue.
I think you read my word as if I was suggesting that system in place of the current one, and not in addition.
I'm fine with the current system (damage = points, damage done by party/ally members count as well).
The silly stuff I suggested were to add to that, not to replace.
The incentive to going on other jobs is to empower your team to be able to do damage, because you get full points for them.
If you go on 18 DDs, your entire alliance does ***damage, dies, and then you get 0 points.
If you go with a balanced party, you properly heal, buff, and tank for your DDs, then they can do a bunch of damage and you get a lot of points.
The other night for Omega we were missing a tank and RDM, so I switched to PLD and RDM. I tanked while the other parties did damage, and I got a shitload of points on my support jobs. Because the system is designed that way.
The answer to "which job should I go to fight the NMs on?" is:
Whichever job will enable your alliance to do as well as possible.
It could be a buffer, a tank, a healer, a DD, a RDM, or whatever. It incentivizes you to play logically rather than farm points like...DI...and just AFK and spam crits, for example.
I think EP loss is a problem for a lot of people here, although that's just speculation. I know some friends of mine will not go in there on their best jobs because they don't want to lose EP on their high ML jobs. I don't blame them really. I also don't want to go down there on my PLD that's close to ML40 especially with how DT and defense seems to be useless on these NMs. So I go into those things on a job that is less useful. I know the grace reduces EP loss by 46% (at least on my server) but when you're in the millions of EP it still sucks.
I know that if there was no EP loss people would just set their HP outside the entrance and HP when they die cause it would be faster and with no weakness to just re-enter. So I don't know how to make that work. I'm not sure if the Grace EP loss reduction has a cap, but maybe when it gets up to 80-90% reduction lol.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-01-14 11:21:04
I think EP loss is a problem for a lot of people here, although that's just speculation. I know some friends of mine will not go in there on their best jobs because they don't want to lose EP on their high ML jobs.
Most of them didn't earn them anyways, but even still, depending on your server's grace level, it's not much of a loss. And SE has stated that after a certain point when the highest Grace tier is reached, EXP loss won't even matter, as it will be (paraphrasing) negligible (0 loss). From what I understood.
[+]
By JuniperPhoenix 2026-01-14 11:22:03
2006
Teleport-Holla Can I have it? Reward 3K
2026
Arise Can I have it? Reward 3K
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3983
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-01-14 19:28:45
I think EP loss is a problem for a lot of people here, although that's just speculation. I know some friends of mine will not go in there on their best jobs because they don't want to lose EP on their high ML jobs. I don't blame them really. I also don't want to go down there on my PLD that's close to ML40 especially with how DT and defense seems to be useless on these NMs. So I go into those things on a job that is less useful. I know the grace reduces EP loss by 46% (at least on my server) but when you're in the millions of EP it still sucks.
FWIW, if you're ML39 and get a R3 or Arise when you die: you will lose 654 EP per death, so I don't think you're at risk of losing too many MLs.
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28
By Asura.Mrbrightsighed 2026-01-14 20:03:15
If you arise in CN you are going to have a bad time lol. The problem is many times you are forced to HP, that being said I'd trade 50k Exemplar points for a bonus chest.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3983
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-01-14 20:30:44
Asura.Mrbrightsighed said: »If you arise in CN you are going to have a bad time lol. The problem is many times you are forced to HP, that being said I'd trade 50k Exemplar points for a bonus chest.
I mean, it depends what you mean by "CN".
For all the mini bosses, Arise is fine (and great).
For Omega, so long as you're in a good position, it's fine
For Ultima you could end up dying again when you get up (if there's a fetter nearby), but you can also just...wait for the fetters to go away.
There's also Tractor, or the mobs changing positions.
Sometimes you may "need" to HP, but most of the time you can just wait for a condition whereby you can get tractor'd or raised on the spot.
Again...having a party/alliance helps here because then you can have 1 or 5 people with tractor/R3/Arise available to get you/people up. If you're a solo PUP who knows absolutely nobody in the zone, you're gonna have a bad time.
By Meeble 2026-01-14 21:23:29
Getting a few extra chests a month is nice, but if killing U&O again wasn't required to keep next month's chests in good order, I don't think the points would be enough incentive alone.
Unique Data allowing players to open chests without doing a climb seems interesting, though. SE did say more NM's are coming. I doubt it'll ever be a true parallel progression path, but if you could get 2-3 matters per week just fighting a daily NM or something I know people who would do that instead of climbing.
By JuniperPhoenix 2026-01-14 22:12:42
It's always funny to me when a player complains about time
Meanwhile said player has a Crafting Shield, Prime Weapon, Master Level 50, ect...
It's like guy
You got nothing but time...
Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6940
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2026-01-14 23:06:14
So I just realized that this whole "you must be within 30' to get credit" is horribly flawed. I get why they did it (so people dont leech halfway across the battlefield area), but hear me out:
Are groups holding all 3 NM's in wave 1/2 together within a 30' radius?
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3983
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-01-15 00:33:01
Are groups holding all 3 NM's in wave 1/2 together within a 30' radius?
Are you DPSing all 3 bosses at the same time...?
We Slept the other 2 while fighting 1 of them at a time. And yeah, we had the sleeping mobs within 30 of the one we were fighting. It can also be 40~50' away, since you can cast on it while being 30' from the other one.
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11114
By Asura.Sechs 2026-01-15 01:51:06
I think EP loss is a problem for a lot of people here, although that's just speculation. It's realistically a problem only if you're on a high ML (at ML50 you lose ~80k EP each time you HP).
Raise1 makes you recover 50%
Raise2 makes you recover 75%
Raise3 and Arise make you recover 90%.
Then there's the Limbus Grace reduction, on Asura it's 54% atm and I'm not sure when it's gonna stop. SE in their interview said graces right now are "around 50% potency", so will the cap be 100%? I wonder. We're not there yet and I'm not sure when in the formula the Grace reduction is applied. Before Raise? After? Together?
Add to this that for Ultima/Omega, while I'm personally totally fine with the fact there are OHKO moves, atm there's probably a bit too much of them.
So the situation is not ideal -at the moment- but it's gonna get better.
Graces will level up, SE might slightly reduce the amount of OHKO moves.
Blah blah, give it time and I'm sure it will be just perfect in a few months.
Atm it's a bit... hardcore I guess, but things will slowly get better, I'm sure of it.
For an event which only happens max once a month (and that's another sort of problem, imo) it's not too bad.
Again, there's space for improvement but I'm 100% sure things will improve eventually.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3983
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-01-15 02:21:22
At 54% grace, you lose 3,512 EP at ML50 when you die and get a R3/Arise (or about 2 minutes of EP in a decent party).
If you HP at ML50, you lose 35,122 (or about 20 minutes of EP in a decent party).
By SimonSes 2026-01-15 06:09:43
I lost count how many times I died with no raise on all 6 chars to damage Ultima from 86 to 31. Must have been a lot, because I lost like 800k EP and deleveled from 41 to 40. I would do it again though :D
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-01-15 12:46:23
It's always funny to me when a player complains about time
It's an MMO, so the time component is already built into the model to begin with. There's really no argument you can make as far as "this takes too long" that make any logical sense from an MMO perspective. Making things that takes a lot of time keeps players busy with long term goals so they don't give up and claim they have "nothing to do". It prolongs content and longevity of the game. It also gives SE the opportunity to introduce a "campaign" they can advertise the new content to encourage returners/new players to sub or play. So introducing things that are time-heavy make a lot of sense from an MMO perspective.
I do, however, think the time-heavy model of Limbus betrays what the director said about "introducing more things for players that take less time" (paraphrasing), and I feel like either that statement that Fujito made was either misinterpreted (maybe by me) or he misspoke. Maybe he meant they wanted to create more things players could "pick up and do whenever they want", so they can be choose to do the content whenever. In that case, Limbus being open-world fits that model. But LImbus is the exact opposite of things that take less of your time. I'd have to find the reference where he said this, but I'm pretty sure it was along the lines of that.
By Shichishito 2026-01-15 13:42:36
There's really no argument you can make as far as "this takes too long" that make any logical sense from an MMO perspective. Making things that takes a lot of time keeps players busy with long term goals so they don't give up and claim they have "nothing to do". It prolongs content and longevity of the game. MMOs can be time intensive but at some point during development devs should ask themself "is this fun this still fun or is it already torture?"
I'm not sure the answer is so clear cut if we look at content that asks you to take airship rides for 6 hours to find a NPC with the same equipment, catch 10k moat carps or make you run from teleporter to teleporter and slay x enemies.
By Dodik 2026-01-15 15:09:45
It's more like devs are given a requirement like "limbus content must last 2-3 years for even the most no lifer among the top no lifers" and that's how you get daily and weekly caps.
Artificially inflating time needed to complete content.
Some devs play. I doubt they want to make things take forever just for the sake of it, there's always management making those calls.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6940
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2026-01-15 15:10:47
make you run from teleporter to teleporter and slay x enemies. You just described Sortie and Sheol too though.
Atleast Limbus gives you EP that everyone complains is so annoying to get.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6940
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2026-01-15 15:19:33
that's how you get daily and weekly caps. Blame the nolifers when Delve came out who did Delve 18 hours a day then deactivated their accounts until new content was added. At the end of the day, they're running a business and people deactivating because "we finished the content" is bad for business. Yes, people deactivating because "the content's gonna take a year to finish *** this" is also bad for business.
[+]
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 408
By Fenrir.Brimstonefox 2026-01-15 15:47:37
that's how you get daily and weekly caps. Blame the nolifers when Delve came out who did Delve 18 hours a day then deactivated their accounts until new content was added. At the end of the day, they're running a business and people deactivating because "we finished the content" is bad for business. Yes, people deactivating because "the content's gonna take a year to finish *** this" is also bad for business.
would be interesting for an MMO developer if they offered a 'premium' server, So you pay $100/mo but all the grindy stuff takes 10% of what the traditional server is. (1k moatcarp for lu shangs, 1k plutons etc... for afterglow, 10% of galli needed for primes etc.., only need 300k examplar in the ML40s range etc...)
I'd be curious how popular it would be, gut says some people enjoy the grind and the price would scare off people, I mean if you could transfer to and fro though, i'm sure lots of folks would go for a month or 2 to do some of the stuff.
Then again $100 even for 10% of an MMO probably better play value than $60 console game, that lots of folks blow through in a week.
Frankly if they did the opposite and let you do $1/mo but everything took 10x longer I'm guessing they'd make more money because lots of folks would probably keep there accounts active just to say hi to some friends once in a while and not even worry about doing much of anything.
Ragnarok.Amalle
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 43
By Ragnarok.Amalle 2026-01-16 06:17:47
Is the (Trust) Sworn Gear pieces BiS for any job?
By Shichishito 2026-01-16 07:10:29
Fenrir.Brimstonefox said: »would be interesting for an MMO developer if they offered a 'premium' server, So you pay $100/mo but all the grindy stuff takes 10% of what the traditional server is. (1k moatcarp for lu shangs, 1k plutons etc...
Sounds kind of like multiboxing.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3983
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-01-16 07:24:16
Is the (Trust) Sworn Gear pieces BiS for any job?
If you include R30, yes it's insanely good. Have you looked at it?
I didn't see a thread dedicated to new-new Limbus so here's one with some findings. I’ve continued to edit this post with new discoveries made throughout the thread.
For entrance and zone info, really the SE post is best:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/62862-June-10-2025-%28JST%29-Version-Update?p=667175&viewfull=1#post667175
Obtaining the Key Items / Units
Kill mobs to fill the bar in the upper left. Seems to take 6-15+ mobs per floor, this increases based on the chosen mob level and number of people in your party. You continue to get units as long as you want to sit there and keep killing and refill the bar, but at half the rate. Whether this is comparable to the units gained by continuing to move floors and finishing the event to get the chest bonus is up a function of your personal kill speed and group size.
Each Temporary KI looks like "Apollyon SE #1 data", and you get 1 per floor. You keep them until you open a chest and then they are all lost. You get a KI for filling up the bar at the top of the screen on each floor. I didn't count but I think it requires like 10 mobs per floor (this apparently varies by level choice). Once you get a KI, you should get to keep it even if you leave Limbus. You would lose any progress on any un-completed floors, but this is like 6-10 kills so no biggie.
You can enter any section / floor at any time. You don't need to go in any type of order or "climb" if you're missing one of the upper KIs from a run that got interrupted.
Once you choose a level (119-130), I think you need to keep that level choice until you open a chest. If you adjust it after getting some KIs, you might lose them. The NPC dialogue isn't too clear on this.
There were no direct drops from mobs, of any kind.
Mob Details
All the mobs seem to have pretty serious DT, probably 50% (confirm by Brixy as 50%, per Air Knife expected enspell dmg). But they aren't hard. They hit like 130s. AoE/Cleaving is extremely nerfed.
Pulling mobs is weird. Any initial spell cast before initial aggro / dynamic level adjustment may land, but will not remain on the mob. You will not see a message to reflect this.
If you pull with silence (while it's un-aggroed), it appears the silence instantly wears without any message, likely due to the dynamic-level adjustment which happens as soon as you aggro (credit to Moonlightagb for this theory, I think it's correct). Silencing twice is probably needed. This doesn't matter much in a party, but if you're solo and mob density is high this effect could be pretty annoying. Other examples later verified by others: If you pull with Immanence, the skill chain will not complete. If you pull with Dia, you can sleep right after.
Mob respawn is on the order of a few minutes but I was pretty lonely this morning. I had one floor with a couple groups and it felt faster, might be dynamic spawn rate.
Aside from the initial-aggro weirdness, everything can be debuffed and slept as expected. Sneak/invis work fine, but true aggro mobs remain like Imps and such.
Getting the goods
In order for the chest to open, you need to finish all of the zone, not just one section. So Apollyon zone is 18 KIs, Temenos zone should be 25 KIs. If the chest says "it won't open", you need more KIs. The chests are located at the exit of each "top floor" in each section. However, you can only open a chest once you have finished all the sections (NW,NE,SW,SE,etc).
After getting all KIs in Apollyon, each character had earned:
About 4000 units from killing mobs and climbing floors
3000 units from finding a shiny ??? on the ground and clicking it
3000 units (one character in the party got 5000 units, no idea why) directly from the chest
So each character of a 6-person party left a ~90 minute run with 10-12k units. EP was ~15k/hr, but this is ML50s fighting level 130s. Maybe it's better if you're lower.
My initial limit on Apollyon units was 30,000. After I opened the chest, that increased to 33,000. It looks to increase 3000 more with each chest open.
Apollyon Units are used to upgrade AF pieces to +4.
Temenos Units are used to upgrade relic pieces to +4.
The upgrade costs are:
Head: 20k units
Body: 30k units
Hands: 15k units
Legs: 25k units
Feet: 10k units
Once I got to 10k units, the furnace did allow me to trade a foot piece, though I didn't choose to complete the process. Trading any other slot did nothing.
I did get the title Apollyon Razer, which I think is just the same as the old title lol
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