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Sortie: Gartell Melee question
By Taint 2025-03-14 11:19:39
Stacking gravity 2 with indi-gravity basically slows him down to a slug's crawl
While true, (Just as an FYI, not disagreeing with you at all):
I've found after dozens of runs that Indi-Gravity is unnecessary on Gartell, due to his movement speed being slower than Aita. Between Rudra's Storm's -20%~ gravity and Gravity II, every melee in the group can hit Gartell just fine following him from behind. This allows you to use a BoG+EA+Widened Compass Fury Bubble in the center of the arena and use Frailty on yourself. If you feel iffy about not having a third Gravity on Gartell, entrust it to someone to make up the difference.
I agree. You CAN Geo/Indi Grav which makes him barely move but its unnecessary on F.
Also I would skip the Thunder Carol mentioned above. Its not doing anything.
By Atrox78 2025-03-14 11:24:46
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Everyone fighting uses darkness based weapon skills. Drk = Fimbulvetr/ sam / mumei or fudo and or war = impulse drive or disaster / brd = evisceration and cor is typically doing savage.
FWIW, there's really no such thing as a "darkness based weapon skill", though it is a common misnomer.
From your list, for example:
Disaster (Gravitation) -> Fragmentation = Fragmentation (note: only WS that don't have other conflicting properties).
Evisceration -> Savage Blade = Fragmentation
Impulse Drive -> Savage Blade = Fragmentation
Fudo -> Fudo = Light
You can avoid all this with careful play, but it's not entirely safe just because a WS can open for darkness; plenty of them can also open for Frag (or possibly Light).
Also: Rudra's Storm absolutely shits all over the damage from Evisceration, and makes better SCs.
I am aware and agree. Oversimplification on my part. The gist is we do ws likely to do darkness or not light. Our sames have mumei so fudo twice in a row dosent happen.
I also agree on rudras. I am always on Drk or War. The brd is using rudras, the cor is using savage or evisceration. With our line up usualy there is slim chance of savage screwing this up and cor only uses savge typically when we have a pug and they don't have an evisceration set rdy.
By Atrox78 2025-03-14 11:28:46
I'll reiterate that the kiting strategy is the best way to go for this fight. Pld, Rdm, Dnc, Geo, Cor, Brd. Stacking gravity 2 with indi-gravity basically slows him down to a slug's crawl, so you can just have the paldin kite him and the melees wail on his rear.
And skillchaining darkness is useful, but not mandatory. I alternate between ruthless stroke and rudra's storm on dancer, corsair uses savage blade, bard uses mordant rime, geo uses judgment and red mage is on black halo. That breaks up the weaponskill wall quite nicely so everyone is hitting for near full damage all the time. Gravity almost feels like cheating on this fight. It takes an otherwise painful fight and turns it into a simple zerg rush. Mobs are easier to kill when they don't use tp moves. I know, hard to believe right?
I agree that kiting is the best strat with the aminon line up but not when you're optimizing for 8 boss only. The zerg method is much faster and reliable from my experience.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-03-14 11:28:57
Rudra's Storm gravity doesn't stack with Gravity II though, does it?
Yeah what the hell am I talking about? For some reason I thought the Gravity effect was unique, but it's just normal gravity icon so no. Disregard that error statement on my behalf.
By Atrox78 2025-03-14 11:35:58
Bismarck.Drakelth said: »Bismarck.Drakelth said: »It's hard to kill it consistently and safely without using the kiting strategy. Back when we were still using a WHM, it was very hit or miss with us. We wiped a lot, and we never got fast enough to kill it within the Asylum timer. Plus half the time it's win hands and that can destroy you in a different way.
If you can switch jobs to accommodate a RDM and tank, I would do that. There's a reason the strategy is ubiquitous now.
gotta disagree here, it is not hard to kill it with a melee setup without kiting regularly. my group does it every second night and have been since before we had any prime weapons and just aria.
I would swap the geo to rdm, then check to make sure you're hitting acc cap, that you have solid dt sets. really one or two fetters are an easy tank on my sam. 3 and I'll move but its usually dead at that point. we also never do any MBing. our rdm does use the right enspell that might make a difference idk. I see a lot of people mentioning 2 hours as well, my group 2 hours H and never have them back up as we usually make it to F with 12ish minutes left.
Do you start with H and save F for 8th boss? That's what we do and sometimes we have to kill Naakuals to kill a little time but yeah.
Dh-cba-egf is our route, good runs we have about 10 to 12 minutes left after F. We generally kill all the upstairs nms, 3/4 down stairs and the narakuls on a good run. Sometimes we have reps or other small mistakes that eat up time and we'll miss either the narakuls or nms but rarely both.
I tend to tank H and F since I am using mumei and don't really run into much issues. I am blessed with some really fantastic whms in our group though so other milage may vary. I also use mumei almost exclusively on both F and H as our entire group melees except the whm so ws wall is never a consideration
Are you using speed hack? I'm not asking this to critize. Just curious because we do not have that much time left if we include roaming nms, let alone nakuls.what is your job line up?
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 220
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2025-03-14 11:55:40
There’s no need of speed hacking, a good run 8/8 should yield you 15 min +/- of free time honestly (that’s why people do aminon). 18% speed will guarantee every roll yield 60% but unlucky, some people add the monster 2%, but that’s not necessary imo. Smooth transition, pre rolling, bolter + chocobo jig asap after kill, no downtime, it’s a race, NM are just anecdotal for end group.Actually with the meta setup (like melliny posted) even 8/8 or 1/1 if that what you do is the setup to aim for, no NM last 1 minute, the combination of defense down is what make that setup crazy.
Speed hack side note:
Group that “speed” tends to miss so much detail because they just don’t pay attention to details, invitation of sloppiness imo. Don’t get used to it, just a train wreck waiting to happens after the doge FAA team went thru the train station. I don’t condemn it, I see plenty of dad and mom that split for a child calling and “catch up” but yeah don’t get use to it, if you do keep yourself in check, like booze.
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Phoenix.Michelob
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 64
By Phoenix.Michelob 2025-03-14 12:06:03
Bismarck.Drakelth said: »Bismarck.Drakelth said: »It's hard to kill it consistently and safely without using the kiting strategy. Back when we were still using a WHM, it was very hit or miss with us. We wiped a lot, and we never got fast enough to kill it within the Asylum timer. Plus half the time it's win hands and that can destroy you in a different way.
If you can switch jobs to accommodate a RDM and tank, I would do that. There's a reason the strategy is ubiquitous now.
gotta disagree here, it is not hard to kill it with a melee setup without kiting regularly. my group does it every second night and have been since before we had any prime weapons and just aria.
I would swap the geo to rdm, then check to make sure you're hitting acc cap, that you have solid dt sets. really one or two fetters are an easy tank on my sam. 3 and I'll move but its usually dead at that point. we also never do any MBing. our rdm does use the right enspell that might make a difference idk. I see a lot of people mentioning 2 hours as well, my group 2 hours H and never have them back up as we usually make it to F with 12ish minutes left.
Do you start with H and save F for 8th boss? That's what we do and sometimes we have to kill Naakuals to kill a little time but yeah.
Dh-cba-egf is our route, good runs we have about 10 to 12 minutes left after F. We generally kill all the upstairs nms, 3/4 down stairs and the narakuls on a good run. Sometimes we have reps or other small mistakes that eat up time and we'll miss either the narakuls or nms but rarely both.
I tend to tank H and F since I am using mumei and don't really run into much issues. I am blessed with some really fantastic whms in our group though so other milage may vary. I also use mumei almost exclusively on both F and H as our entire group melees except the whm so ws wall is never a consideration
Are you using speed hack? I'm not asking this to critize. Just curious because we do not have that much time left if we include roaming nms, let alone nakuls.what is your job line up?
NM kill times make a difference, too. I remember my first Aita clear taking nearly 3 minutes and now they take 45 seconds or so. Our job lineup is typically DD, DD, COR, BRD, GEO, and WHM. DDs normally SAM and WAR or SAM and DRK.
Back to Drakelth, we start with H and use 2 hours right of the bat and find a way for them to be available again by F. Helps to keep Gartell kill times less than a minute.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-03-14 12:27:43
Are you using speed hack? I'm not asking this to critize. Just curious because we do not have that much time left if we include roaming nms, let alone nakuls.what is your job line up?
Bold lol. Can confirm no speed hack is required to 8 bosses and have 12 (even 15) minutes left, even when using 9-boss jobs (subbing drk). You can do most minis along the way or during starting objections, saving time hunting them at the end. Bitzer placement can reward you extra time (i.e. stare saves you 30 seconds if it's in the boss square and not big room). Many groups that 9-boss can fit an Aminon Hard Mode with 11~ minutes on the clock.
By Atrox78 2025-03-14 12:40:10
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »There’s no need of speed hacking, a good run 8/8 should yield you 15 min +/- of free time honestly (that’s why people do aminon). 18% speed will guarantee every roll yield 60% but unlucky, some people add the monster 2%, but that’s not necessary imo. Smooth transition, pre rolling, bolter + chocobo jig asap after kill, no downtime, it’s a race, NM are just anecdotal for end group.Actually with the meta setup (like melliny posted) even 8/8 or 1/1 if that what you do is the setup to aim for, no NM last 1 minute, the combination of defense down is what make that setup crazy.
Speed hack side note:
Group that “speed” tends to miss so much detail because they just don’t pay attention to details, invitation of sloppiness imo. Don’t get used to it, just a train wreck waiting to happens after the doge FAA team went thru the train station. I don’t condemn it, I see plenty of dad and mom that split for a child calling and “catch up” but yeah don’t get use to it, if you do keep yourself in check, like booze.
Said they are killing all bosses, all nms and nakuls. With roaming nm being rng not sure how it is physically possible to do all of that if you get one of the nms way out of the way or, the deltorius is in the big room with a dozen or more formers. Not to mention if you're waiting for nakuru to spawn. I'm not questioning that tine if it's just typical 8 boss run. If I misread then my bad and sorry.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-03-14 12:44:32
Said they are killing all bosses, all roaming nms and nakuru.
Depends on how we read it. They list the route and mention time remaining, THEN explain further that they kill minis/naaks. If this is done after F, that's perfectly reasonable.
Quote: Dh-cba-egf is our route, good runs we have about 10 to 12 minutes left after F. We generally kill all the upstairs nms, 3/4 down stairs and the narakuls on a good run. Sometimes we have reps or other small mistakes that eat up time and we'll miss either the narakuls or nms but rarely both.
Sounds like these parts are at the end of the 8-boss during that 10-12 minute window, not before.
With roaming nm being rng
They're actually not. The starting point is random (for instance, sometimes Bhoot is in middle of big C Bitzer room at the very beginning, sometimes he is in hallway), but they always end in the exact same path during certain times. Bhoot as mentioned may or may not be in C Big Room at start, but is always there at the end of a run. Same exact thing with Deleterious and Porxie. Obdella is usually roaming the 4-square room before A boss, which can be hit along the path or afterwards. Their path is predictable after doing it a number of times. This means doing 8-boss and then going for minis, you never have to look for them because they're always where they're expected to be.
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By Atrox78 2025-03-14 12:48:31
Are you using speed hack? I'm not asking this to critize. Just curious because we do not have that much time left if we include roaming nms, let alone nakuls.what is your job line up?
Bold lol. Can confirm no speed hack is required to 8 bosses and have 12 (even 15) minutes left, even when using 9-boss jobs (subbing drk). You can do most minis along the way or during starting objections, saving time hunting them at the end. Bitzer placement can reward you extra time (i.e. stare saves you 30 seconds if it's in the boss square and not big room). Many groups that 9-boss can fit an Aminon Hard Mode with 11~ minutes on the clock.
Thank you for the basic sortie lesson that I didn't ask for. It's not a question of 8 boss with 12 mins left. It's a question of 8 boss, all nms upstairs, 3/4 downstairs and nakuls and having 10 to 12 mins. If this is possible I'd like to know the strat and job set up so I can improve our group. If it's a speed hack then I can disregard and I'm not judging anyone because purple hallways suck a d I wish I could be more reward out of the daily soul drain too.
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By Taint 2025-03-14 12:50:54
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »There’s no need of speed hacking, a good run 8/8 should yield you 15 min +/- of free time honestly (that’s why people do aminon). 18% speed will guarantee every roll yield 60% but unlucky, some people add the monster 2%, but that’s not necessary imo. Smooth transition, pre rolling, bolter + chocobo jig asap after kill, no downtime, it’s a race, NM are just anecdotal for end group.Actually with the meta setup (like melliny posted) even 8/8 or 1/1 if that what you do is the setup to aim for, no NM last 1 minute, the combination of defense down is what make that setup crazy.
Speed hack side note:
Group that “speed” tends to miss so much detail because they just don’t pay attention to details, invitation of sloppiness imo. Don’t get used to it, just a train wreck waiting to happens after the doge FAA team went thru the train station. I don’t condemn it, I see plenty of dad and mom that split for a child calling and “catch up” but yeah don’t get use to it, if you do keep yourself in check, like booze.
Said they are killing all bosses, all roaming nms and nakuru. With roaming nm being rng not sure how it is physically possible to do all of that if you get one of the nms way out of the way or, the deltorius is in the big room with a dozen or more formers.
They aren't that random. Start places are random but they finish in the same spots. We do 9/9 Minis and Naaks with solid consistency.
Split > DH > Bhoot (Corpse room) > CBA > Obdella (3 members) always north of start quad > Pig (DNC solos) in fire room > DD* (PLD kits to D bitzer and teleports, GEO pulls DD off the pack: hes in the big room or the hall almost in the big room) > FGE > Aminon > Naaks (F)
*DD we kill if he's west of C during KI farming or south of start after D boss. Otherwise he's always in the big room near D bitzer.
No speed hacks, one of our members is vanilla and always 10-15 seconds behind to each boss.
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Posts: 633
By Asura.Melliny 2025-03-14 13:09:02
Quote: Are you using speed hack? I'm not asking this to critize. Just curious because we do not have that much time left if we include roaming nms, let alone nakuls.what is your job line up?
That's a pretty standard path. My aminon group does D --> H --> A B C -> G F E - Aminon, which is the same rout but saves E for last so we can go right into aminon afterward. This allows us to use soul voice on Aita and then cutting cards the bard so that soul voice is back up for aminon, Even if cutting cards is a 1 it shaves off enough time to have SV for the final fight. There really isn't a better path imo. You have to run to all 8 bosses regardless, and there really isn't a more efficient rout to get through em.
We always send our paladin to check the off path when we warp to the basements. Rarely get to naaks, though we do see them on occasion, but usually get the 4 minis on the upsatairs floors. Bhoot and deli are often there at the start, and if they aren't you end up running past em later in the run, and leech is a common sight on the path to the A boss. The pig is the one we have to go out of the way to find more than any others.
Quote: Thank you for the basic sortie lesson that I didn't ask for. It's not a question of 8 boss with 12 mins left. It's a question of 8 boss, all nms upstairs, 3/4 downstairs and nakuls and having 10 to 12 mins
There's a way you can save some time. My group completely ignores all downstairs minis. We don't fight the naraka (just stack choco jig II with bolters and power through the curse), don't fight the botulus (we have our paladin kite the salamander, so we don't have issues with poison. his attacks are ranged so he stops every few seconds to burp slime at the paladin and never tps. I just have to watch my jumps on dancer so he doesnt try to use a move on me). And we definately don't touch ixion or the plant lady.
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By Godfry 2025-03-14 13:15:34
It's a question of 8 boss, all nms upstairs, 3/4 downstairs and nakuls and having 10 to 12 mins.
I rather kill the baby Bumba had with Aminon than do Nakuls. As soon as I kill the main bosses I warp out. I have better things to do with my 10 mins e.g idle in Rabao.
By Taint 2025-03-14 13:36:03
Updated my post we do FGE (not A) just like Melliny.
We also skip all the basement NMs to save time and send PLD to the wing so everyone else can buff while waiting for the PLD to gather with the group.
Pig is in the fire element room if you do it right before going down to F. The only top floor NM we kill early is DD (if we see him) otherwise we wait to fight them in route to save time.
Naaks we need 3:30 (best time) or more after Aminon to run there and kill. Aminon NQ takes us 4:30 to kill on average, we've done a single sub 4 min kill. Best HQ was 5:45 but his times fluctuate more with WC luck.
Bismarck.Drakelth
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By Bismarck.Drakelth 2025-03-14 15:25:51
We don't use speed hacks, and the 10/12 minutes is whats left after f is dead, we use that time to kill narakuls and hit other stretch goals, clean up left over nms, party room, end in H, remateralize c, those kind of things. We dont worry on the run as 8 bosses is always the priority. We tend to kill ixion while we wait for the rdm to get narakuls spawned.
setup is sam/war/rdm/cor/brd/whm, most basement bosses are a minute or less time to kill, we definitely didn't start at this pace and its a lot of finding little efficencies that work for us. Couple I'll mention, we can and will pull the deleterious and the horde surrounding it. Its really not hard for my sam to pull and hold 10 fomora while killing them and waiting on breaks using third eye/seigen, we never wait on narukuls more than a minute or 2(far bitzers suck) we use the F basement for our kills though. Honestly wish our aminon runs where as smooth, still only on aminon +6 or 7, wanna move to that 9 boss daily runs.
By Godfry 2025-03-14 16:48:16
Bismarck.Drakelth said: » Honestly wish our aminon runs where as smooth, still only on aminon +6 or 7, wanna move to that 9 boss daily runs.
My advice to you is to keep following the exact same path that Mel pointed out until you guys start doing 9-boss.
It will suck that you guys will be missing out on Aminon for a few runs, but getting used to the very specific details of of each section of Sortie is key. The more mix-ups you have, the longer it's gonna take for the crew to get used to it.
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By Genoxd 2025-03-14 17:34:16
With thunder hands do you not run into issues with Stuns? we run basically the same comp. No Aria tho.
We get stunned but no issues with it really. You're doing 5 songs and SV? We didn't touch gartell before we had aria so I can't really speak to that part.
I'm not sure if our SAM does meikyo but they do yeag. WAR does MS too. We've been doing F+G with first SV then CBAD then we finish with E+H. Our SAM and WAR are both stage 4. COR and BRD both doing savage blade.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-03-14 18:56:48
It's much more difficult when you're bringing randoms, but I'd recommend a very different path if you can count on your members having certain temp items going in.
We do Aminon E Shards ABCD GHF
This way you're guaranteed to get 2 SV (using CC as necessary), get at least 2 bosses per SV, and can also take full advantage of any WC luck as well. Doing all the upstairs stuff at once saves some backtracking/running around. We typically grab the NMs if/when we see them, but most of the time we count on grabbing them at their final positions.
Finishing 8 bosses with 12 minutes left is nothing special and doesn't require any hacking, I think it was just a misunderstanding of where the 12m is counted. We've definitely had around 10 minutes left at Gartell (like night we did 2 runs, both had 9 minutes left at F) even after having cleared all the minis (on an 8 boss). We do typically skip most of the downstairs minis though, since they aren't worth that much and cost a fair bit of time, esp. if they're out of the way.
Bismarck.Drakelth
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By Bismarck.Drakelth 2025-03-14 19:12:32
Bismarck.Drakelth said: » Honestly wish our aminon runs where as smooth, still only on aminon +6 or 7, wanna move to that 9 boss daily runs.
My advice to you is to keep following the exact same path that Mel pointed out until you guys start doing 9-boss.
It will suck that you guys will be missing out on Aminon for a few runs, but getting used to the very specific details of of each section of Sortie is key. The more mix-ups you have, the longer it's gonna take for the crew to get used to it.
I might be able to pitch this after we're done our current HM farm for mesos. I am hopeful the HM runs will make our NM runs quicker and we can make the time for H. I will probably push todo H instead of F for a bit to get more comfortable on H with our Aminon jobs after this batch of meso. I do appreciate the advice though.
By Dodik 2025-03-14 20:07:08
How fast the bosses go depends on how many primes and their stage there are in the party, mostly, which is your main dd source.
Aria is what helps the most, followed by the relevant dd weapons.
Long story short, melee static seems to be really struggling with Gartell (F) for some reason. Usually wiping around 30-40%. Looking for some advice on how the hell to beat him consistently.
Comp: WAR/SAM/GEO/WHM/BRD/COR
Cor/BRD are using Savage hitting for 30-35k on average
War is using Stage 3 prime (diaster) hitting for 50-60k on average
SAM is using stage 3 prime (Mumei) hitting for 50-70k on average
Attempting to get blue procs with either SC's or magic burst from the Geo but not making it priority, we do manage to get one 50% ish of the time. Getting thunder hands majority of the time. the Aoe/enstun are limiting WS's for sure. Trying to swap out atk songs for carols, using barthunder as well. Usually starts summoning feathers around 1 minute in. We are trying to rotate out of them as much as possible. After feathers come out they hit for around 70 each but Gartell starts hitting for upper 800's-1.2k
The hell are we doing wrong? Based off wiki looks like feathers shouldn't be coming out until 3 minute mark. We are avoiding light/transfixion skill chains.
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