Devs lying, keeping us in the dark, withholding information. Nothing new.
Oathsworn Blade Master Trial - Cleared |
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Oathsworn Blade Master Trial - Cleared
Lakshmi.Buukki
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Asura.Iamaman said: » I really wish they'd post this. I asked the last AMA if the strategies we came up with were what they expected and they basically just answered yes, it was inline with what they expected. Personally I think they are full of ***. Devs lying, keeping us in the dark, withholding information. Nothing new. Asura.Nalfey said: » Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » It's fine to disrespect the guy I actually agree with Shang on this one. Most people on this forum are min/max ***, if you claim to know your stuff and keep posting numbers all round, telling people how they should or shouldn't play, it's quite comical to not actually perform and meet the standards when playing don't you think ? The way people deal with criticism is totally personal, if you take it as an attack and try to defend mediocrity then you will most likely stay an average player. I'm not disagreeing about his point (that some people focus too much on theory and can't actually perform practically), though I'm not sure if it's true with this particular example because I've never played with the guy. My point was if you're going to ***talk someone, it doesn't do much good to say "no disrespect". For example: No disrespect, but you're a fat useless piece of ***who's never going to amount to anything. No disrespect, but you're a complete moron who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. No disrespect, but your girlfriend is an ugly tramp and she's still too good for you. It's fine to hold these opinions, and maybe they're actually true. Adding "no disrespect" before you say something extremely disrespectful doesn't prevent it from being disrespectful. Telling someone they suck at a video game and should shut their *** mouth is disrespectful. Own it. buttplug said: » It would be nice if they at least After a certain time period Released the party setup they designed it around I would also love to know these answers, but I think the reason they don't do it, or at least the reason I wouldn't do it, is because then it pidgeon holes the creativity of the players and railroads future players into that composition. The beauty of FFXI is that (for most things) there are multiple different party compositions that can do a fight. If SE said "We think V25 Bumba should be done with XXX jobs" then everyone would do that strategy and nobody would be creative with it. Sure, they could do this months/years later, but it still has the same effect: from that day moving forward, innovation will be stifled and players will say "OK, SE said that the comp is this, that must be the easiest way to do it." Even if you prefer a different job, there would be pressure to switch to the meta job because "that's what SE said." Offline
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » buttplug said: » It would be nice if they at least After a certain time period Released the party setup they designed it around I would also love to know these answers, but I think the reason they don't do it, or at least the reason I wouldn't do it, is because then it pidgeon holes the creativity of the players and railroads future players into that composition. The beauty of FFXI is that (for most things) there are multiple different party compositions that can do a fight. If SE said "We think V25 Bumba should be done with XXX jobs" then everyone would do that strategy and nobody would be creative with it. Sure, they could do this months/years later, but it still has the same effect: from that day moving forward, innovation will be stifled and players will say "OK, SE said that the comp is this, that must be the easiest way to do it." Even if you prefer a different job, there would be pressure to switch to the meta job because "that's what SE said." I completely agree with what Maletaru is saying here. One of the biggest appeals to FFXI from a new/considering player's perspective is the "player vs. develeper" feeling to the combat. Hearing stories about AV, or Thorny with the Master Trial bots, or Shiraj's group's clear of OB certainly feels like a novelty in today's overly guided game design trends. It doesn't pigeonhole them anymore than someone winning does.
Every single group who ever even pretends to care about this will do it with the exact same party. That's no different. They were deadset on their strat after one day despite themselves thinking it was impossible. It's just a time saver, don't try to *** yourself. Offline
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I realize the doom couldn’t be removed by magic etc but I wonder if there is a special pass coded specifically for gambanteinn. Would reserve a slot for WHM though. If that’s the case, would definitely have to be a way to dispel the aura’s.
Wish it was more accessible to experiment with different strategies but I guess that’s part of the challenge of these fights. For aura procing ideas:
Fun to think of these things. Quote: I'm not disagreeing about his point (that some people focus too much on theory and can't actually perform practically), though I'm not sure if it's true with this particular example because I've never played with the guy. His ramble was exaggerated, and quite frankly it's out of place. We're discussing master trial stuff here. I'm pretty sure nobody cares about what happened in one odyssey group's short term events while they cleared one nm. I've cleared V25 Arebtai three times in three different groups, and that particular group I was just along to help. There were quite a few more complications than just damage before we got the clear too; some of it was tanking related (we had to swap the paladin a couple times), some of it was coordination, and it was partially a pickup so two of the members were changing on a nightly basis and we had to re-cover the same ground with the new people repeatedly. Most of the group was new to the V25 version of the fight, so there was a bit of a learning curve. Despite that it took closer to a couple dozen attempts over the course of about 5 or 6 nights spread across two weeks. That's not unusual for V25 Arebati, nor is it a terrible track record. The damage was there. Blaming the struggles we faced solely on me is just him taking out a personal grudge he has against me in a public setting. And this isn't the place for it. There is far more behind the scenes stuff to the story, but none of it warrants bringing up here. I wanted to try to keep the discussion on topic which is why I didn't bother responding up until now. Sorry you had to see this. Asura.Eiryl said: » It doesn't pigeonhole them anymore than someone winning does. Every single group who ever even pretends to care about this will do it with the exact same party. That's no different. They were deadset on their strat after one day despite themselves thinking it was impossible. As usual, this is just completely untrue. There are myriad different strategies and job combinations for all kinds of fights, some completely different to each other. Sure, these are shared with other groups and plenty of people follow templates, but they also adjust based on their experience, opinions, and the jobs their team is good at. Asura.Shang
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mel mel mel u do live in ur own world =). the point made was gun > bow if ur looking for ranger dps. u compared a aeonic gun against a prime bow why im not sure. but the bow looses before u even started. the arebati part was my personal experience with u on ranger that showed me you do not know the job its cool u learned it but u dnt know it so stop giving bad advice. the part that dnt matter is the specifics of the arebati runs we did and man ur lost. i was helping yall i had the win long before u, i joined some friend for a tp denial strat but thats not the point. i stopped helping got tired of just loosing and slye quit that gave me an out. also side note on ur third time killing i was also the RUN u have no clue who is around you hence how you became known as "main char mel" lmao i held him once again againt ur stupid bow (gandiva btw even though u had prime u knew then it was meh). i remember these fights very well and have done them with any serious person who wanted to go bringing my ls along for the ride cause they are just as stupid as me to keep repeating them. sadly i dnt have a formula for u so i support my claim once again with personal experience. think anyone who knows me will tell u i can be a down right *** but they will also tell u i wont blow smoke up ur ***. now back to the master trial topic ^^ another win coming hopefuly because were suiting up and yes we are following the known strat because it works why fix it we cheered from the sidelines for this one to work these dudes busted their *** and more then the 6 in the picture they earned every bit of claiming worlds first IMO of course. if you want a dif strat go practice and test.
also srry for the no disrespect but then comes disrespect comment saw it in a movie once =) Shang, that group you're talking about was from a year and a half ago. There were bigger issues in that group. The corsair we had at the time had abysmal damage output, and that was a big reason we struggled on our clears. We also didn't bring Arebati as low on our first Ki runs back then as we did since. There were people who didn't even have R20 nyame back then, and three of those members quite the game in summer of 2023. Hell, I didn't have half the ranger gear I did then as I do now. I was still gearing it specifically for Arebati at the time. I didn't have even a quarter of the Mlvls on it then as I do now. I'll be the first to admit my ranger wasn't amazing then. I've improved it a hell of a lot since. Are you really going to fault me for being new to a job 18 months ago?
If you're criticism of my ranger is coming from that old group, then it's not fair at all. I thought you were talking about our more recent attempts when we helped some of the linkshell get clears after we already had our kills. We've come a long way in progression in a short time, and I know you harbor personal negativity toward me. Lets not bring those personal squabbles into this ok. I've cleared V25 arebati three times in the past six months with three different groups, two of which I just came along to help because they were friends and needed the clear. And when I play ranger now I do back up my talk with performance. Quote: the point made was gun > bow if ur looking for ranger dps. u compared a aeonic gun against a prime bow why im not sure. but the bow looses before u even started. And on this point your simply wrong. Gun and bow both TP at similar rates. Sarv is an extremely powerful weaponskill, and gandiva has insane white DPS. You saying that one is straight up superior to the other is flat out ignorant. You can't compare the two in a vacuum. Bow has a farther out sweet spot than gun, and standing in true shot range is quite a big deal. The prime weapons are extremely strong, and both Earp and Pinaka perform at exceptionally high levels. They break the mold. And I stand by my earlier statement. IF Pinaka would be capable of firing off 99k sarvs at close to 1k tp then it would match or exceed Fomalhaut in this fight. But I don't know if that would happen because I've never used Sarv under those extreme buffs. Quote: gandiva btw even though u had prime u knew then it was meh No, I knew it was so powerful that if I pulled it out I would die in an instant. It's anything BUT "meh". Pinaka is overwhelmingly powerful. So much so that it generates enough enmity to rip hate from a tank in just 3 or 4 weaponskills toward the end of the Arebati fight. You need /drg and super jump to properly use it, and when you're fighting Arebati you don't have that luxury. I've actually used Pinaka on V25 Arebati since getting it to stage 5. Sarv broke 90,000 damage, when in comparison Coronach only did upwards of 35k. You don't just throw around damage like that on V25 unless it's the very end of the fight. You die in a hurry. Dead rangers deal no damage. The prime bow and gun are both immensely strong. Not using it on Arebati had nothing to do with its power, and everything to do with its enmity generation. Asura.Shang
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stop reading when you said earp is powerful again just showing what you dnt know i have earp its meh. i still pref aeonic i do use my earp because i made it but not gnna lie to the community and says its amazing just get a fomal
Asura.Shang
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year and a half till now and u still cant just use a relic gun to kill arebati u have to rock the boat because u need more dps. come back when u shoot it with anni only ill apologize and tell u i was wrong.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » As usual, this is just completely untrue. There are myriad different strategies and job combinations for all kinds of fights, some completely different to each other. Sure, these are shared with other groups and plenty of people follow templates, but they also adjust based on their experience, opinions, and the jobs their team is good at. I don't know how literally you're taking it, but I'm gonna have to side with Eiryl on this one. Once a strategy is published, interest in trying novel strategies drops to next to nothing. How many people have made any real effort to do Bumba V25 by dealing with procs? It hits for next to nothing outside aura, DT only builds when aura is up, if you focused on nailing the procs quickly it's completely feasible that a slow strategy would work fine. But, I have yet to hear from a single group actually coordinating around that. Mischief's strategy was replicable and showed it could actually win, so people would rather gear those jobs and do it that exact way than try something new that might not. Shang said: drivel Would love to hear from the GEO/WHM and his cure/idle set, his struggles, his adjustment. Did he get hit a lot, is SIRD base cure needed, was it just bubbling and casting cure left and right with no extra complications?!? that’s the part that interest me.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Sure, these are shared with other groups and plenty of people follow templates, but they also adjust based on their experience, opinions, and the jobs their team is good at. I think this is very optimistic. I can see how you'd come to this conclusion if you've only been in groups/statics that are willing to accommodate changes, but there are a lot that do not and just stick with whatever guide is published even if they've failed doing it over and over 40 times. I'd argue the majority of players are kindof limited in their willingness to experiment and risk failure to potentially uncover something new. You see this a lot with gearing, too, "well the guide says I should use x", they don't put any thought in what to use beyond that. Maybe it's just my experience, but I doubt it. Groups/people fall into two camps: willing to experiment and try new things at risk of failing, then groups/people who shoot down anything that doesn't align with word by word of the guide. There are a lot more in the latter category than I think you probably recognize and if the source of the strat is SE or a player, it doesn't matter. People willing to try something new aren't all of a sudden going to stop and it'll have no material change on the other group. I would've agreed with you in the year or so after v25 was released, but at this point it's old enough and enough published strats are out there, I don't think it'd change much. At the end of the day I just want to see someone at SE do this and show that they actually put some thought behind it or that there is some intended strategy they came up with when tuning the fight, especially Bumba and this one. I don't think the way the player base reacts to it is going to have any real change on how people do the fights unless there is some new mechanic revealed. Either way, they will never do it for a number of reasons. Shiva.Thorny said: » I don't know how literally you're taking it, but I'm gonna have to side with Eiryl on this one. Once a strategy is published, interest in trying novel strategies drops to next to nothing. How many people have made any real effort to do Bumba V25 by dealing with procs? It hits for next to nothing outside aura, DT only builds when aura is up, if you focused on nailing the procs quickly it's completely feasible that a slow strategy would work fine. But, I have yet to hear from a single group actually coordinating around that. Mischief's strategy was replicable and showed it could actually win, so people would rather gear those jobs and do it that exact way than try something new that might not. Depends a lot on the example. I've heard of several ody fights that were done with very different setups to mine. I've heard of sortie strats with probably 5-10 different job setups. People do dynamis and Omen and all kinds of ***with modified strats. There are entire threads on this site full of people debating which weapons to use, which job is better than which, and how to make do with what they have. Bumba is more of the exception that proves the rule, for me. Lakshmi.Buukki
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It depends on how good the original strategy is. It just might not be worth innovating over the original if it's already easy to pull off. Arebati V20 is an example of an annoying fight for the BRD to have to kite the add, but it changed to having a pld hold it once people struggled doing it the "first" way. Just whatever is easier for the average player to do imo
Thorny himself came up with a far superior method to doing Sealed Fate than what the first few groups used, and then the initial strategy basically died off. His strategy was easier to perform, didn't require any significant buffing, alts, tools, gear or automation, and was simple enough that it left very little room for error besides alternating mew and magical damage on demand from SMNs. Players always choose the easiest path for completing something, not necessarily the first one. People saw Mischief's group (widely known as some of the best players) employing a simple strategy for dealing with an annoying boss and getting a win and decided that was simple enough to replicate vs dealing with Bumba and all his shenanigans. If the best groups find a really good and workable strategy, THAT imo is what kills off any motivation to innovate. Offline
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Some recollections on here are mistaken. Xolla's group was the first to clear Bumba v25 and established the strategy. Mischief's group just replicated it. Sure, perhaps with minor tweaks/slightly different job selections for KI 1, but the foundational concept behind the strategy was Xolla's.
Xolla's first clear. Mischief's post, posted 10 days after Xolla's clear which essentially just replicated Xolla's strategy. Asura.Nefertarii
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Phoenix.Gavroches said: » Would love to hear from the GEO/WHM and his cure/idle set, his struggles, his adjustment. Did he get hit a lot, is SIRD base cure needed, was it just bubbling and casting cure left and right with no extra complications?!? that’s the part that interest me. The healing was split between the GEO/WHM, the BRD/SCH, and even at times the RUN/BLU was helping. When things went well the Bee and Shark would pop early and regen5 was still up which made things a lot easier. I used a set of Vanya gear, Idris and AF+3 GEO hands to cap cure potency / player DT / Bubble DT. Bubble breaking and MP management was a big issue. I used full circle around 25% bubble health to redo bubbles often in order to save MP. I felt like the more stressful part of the fight was after the zombie phase where I was weak. I had to alternate through cure2/3/4 because of cooldowns, and the bosses are still doing quite a bit of damage. As time went on we got really good at working as a team. I think the last 4~5 pulls we didn't have a single death before the zombie phase. Offline
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You guys should make a list of who you know was taking part in trying to take this down.
It's nice to list all the elite players trying to do these things, even if the groups were not successful they played a part in the win in some way or another. Oh, a list of losers who failed and/or gave up. Sounds fun!
Now we're talkin. That (and this post) will wad up some panties for sure. Offline
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Asura.Eiryl said: » Oh, a list of losers who failed and/or gave up. Sounds fun! trying too hard |
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