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Unsolved Mysteries of Vana'diel
By Ovalidal 2025-02-27 15:03:24
Altana exists in all realities at once (there is only one Altana and she can see all realities), Promathia is cloned in each one. Altana split the great crystal into 5 pieces and laid them into Vana'diel to keep the darkness in them away from him. I want to add some context to this. The game is incredibly vague on what exactly happened before the great crystal was broken, so I may have misunderstood things. But saying Promathia was cloned may give the wrong impression.
For whatever reason, the darkness threatened the world before the breaking of the great crystal. Promathia took the darkness into himself and died, saving the world (and by extension, Altana).
Unable to cope with the loss of her love, Altana broke the great crystal over Promathia's corpse, spilling the light across the darkness. This accomplished two things:
1) It shattered reality into many realms.
2) It intermingled with the Darkness in Promathia's corpse, giving rise to a new race of life with a balance of the Mothercrystal's light and the Emptiness. Rather than resurrecting, Promathia's body was broken into "many vessels" that were eventually called the Zilart.
When enough of the Emptiness agregates(as is the case with the Keeper of the Apocolypse), Promathia's will returns. And his will before death was to gather up all the emptiness and sacrifice himself, dying with the Darkness. The aggregation of Promathia is what is fought in CoP, and this is why it want's to absorb everyone among the enlightened races (gather up the emptiness) and then die. Kind of a weird motivation without context, but makes more sense given his history. EDIT: This is also why CoP isn't required to have finished for RoV. The guy responsible for setting the check points in RoV for story progress is internally referred to as a "walking encyclopedia of Vana'diel". That fragment of Promathia isn't enough to counteract Altana to ward off the Cloud of Darkness.
Furthermore, the Zilart have a shared memory, or collective consciousness of sorts. They can all share memories and thoughts. So, this leads to some complication though. When they think back to seeing Altana beyond the gate of the gods, iirc, they believed that some among them knew Altana personally. In truth, these are Promathia's memories that they perceive. And the reason Promathia is the "faceless god" is because they have no recollection of looking at their own face. Apparently, in the process of taking the emptiness into himself before his death, Promathia had to be bound by chains. This is why the faceless statue is depicted as being chained in the hall of the gods.
All avatars that came after these were created with Vana'diel by Altana and are called terrestrial avatars. I've heard this actually, but it seems to be a contradiction regarding what's explored in CoP. While there are certain exceptions, the CoP storyline suggests that the terrestrial avatars predate the shattering of the great crystal, but were "mundane beasts before that point." Did I misunderstand this?
By RadialArcana 2025-02-27 16:52:45
Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »Most of these look like AI trash.
I got these pictures before AI was even a thing.
These are official Square Enix artworks, for the FF mobious card game. There are lots of others too.
You can find them all on the wiki
https://mobius.fandom.com/wiki/Mobius_Final_Fantasy_Wiki
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 Ragnarok.Nekonarf
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 628
By Ragnarok.Nekonarf 2025-02-27 17:50:13
Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »Most of these look like AI trash.
I got these pictures before AI was even a thing.
These are official Square Enix artworks, for the FF mobious card game. There are lots of others too.
You can find them all on the wiki
https://mobius.fandom.com/wiki/Mobius_Final_Fantasy_Wiki
GANs have been around since 2013, but okay. Yeah before AI got it.
By RadialArcana 2025-02-27 18:04:35
So the original song for the game is sung in Esperanto
Quote: Now flows innocent blood
On Vana'diel, a vast land
The entire world trembles
In despair from the scourge
Prevented
By no fate
Stopped
By no strength
But through the stormy night
Behold: a star of glory shines!
Against a brutal outcry
Behold: a hymn springs forth!
A shining star, a ringing song:
Dream and pray for us!
Vana'diel! Vana'diel!
Hand and hand together
Across the limitless eternity
We will no longer be put asunder
We will no longer be bound!
By waffle 2025-02-27 18:07:58
Sometimes it can be hard to separate the in universe myths and legends from the actual history. We know that the standard creation myth taught by the church in Sandy is wrong, but it's not always that clear. I think the stuff about Ramuh and the Olduum is meant to just be a myth.
The celestial avatars are called the sleeping gods and indeed their true bodies appear to be asleep inside the crystals. You can see them even as you fight the summoned avatars in those fights. Personally I assumed that the six figures flanking Altana and Promathia in the hall of the gods are meant to represent the six of them according to the Zilart.
The terrestrials are "beasts" from Paradise who were deified when they absorbed energy from the fracturing of the great Mothercrystal.
As for the Zilart themselves, I thought they really did exist in Paradise, though as Eald'narche said, in different forms. I'd long assumed the Aerns are the true original form of the Zilart, but that's just my speculation.
Also, it's important to remember that the Zilart and the civilization they built existed for quite some time before Zilart started to be born with fragments of Promathia's emptiness inside of them. Those born with emptiness inside of them lacked the Zilart's telepathy (the whisper of the soul) and would grow old and die unlike the Zilart. Out of prejudice the Zilart called them Kuluu and considered them a different people. Eventually the Zilartian princess Yve'noile (yes, she's the Zilart bros sister, SE confirmed that many years later) was born as a Kuluu, which lead the king of the Zilart to order the construction of the chamber of Eventide, which rips the emptiness out of people. Using it, he turned her into a full Zilart. It was done to some other Kuluu too like Esha'ntarl. One interesting thing to note is that there's a line of dialogue tucked away in the game that claims that Eald'narche, *** though he is, considered Selh'teus to be his best friend. It's interesting to consider in light of the Zilartian mistreatment of the Kuluu.
A related thing to note is that it's the pieces of Promathia's emptiness in all living things in Vana'diel (other than the gods and the few surviving Zilart) that makes everything age and die. So when Prishe had hers ripped out by the Eye of Altana, she stopped aging. Of course if everyone were to rip theirs out, well, we've seen what happens when all that Emptiness starts to accumulate in one place again. In a roundabout way, the Dawn Goddess, distraught over her beloved husband's "death" ended up eventually making Vana'diel as a bizarre "life support system" for Promathia, keeping him from his "true death" by distributing his Emptiness to all of us.
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By RadialArcana 2025-02-27 18:15:03
In CoP Ulmia sings a song, "Lay of the Immortals"
Found on an old blog the lyrics
Quote: The song known as "Memoria de la Ŝtono" plays a central role in the Chains of Promathia storyline as well, but the lyrics presented therein are entirely different. Known to some as the "Lay of the Immortals", the full import of the song is revealed as the story progresses We get our first glimpse of the song in Chapter 2 (verses 1 and 2), Chapter 4 (verse 3), Chapter 5 (verse 4), and Chapter 6 (verse 5 – although this is never entirely revealed). Quote: It all began with a stone, or so the legend says In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods. Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss until, after a time, the gods fell into slumber. That world was called Vana'diel. Our world, Vana'diel. However, this age will not last. The great bane will devour the fair land of Vana'diel. The ancient seal will be broken, awakening nightmares of ages past. A tragic age of darkness will reign. And yet, the gods will not wake from their slumber… That world was called Vana'diel. Innocent blood spills forth onto the plains of Vana'diel. The world shudders as she is thrust into chaos and despair. Neither power nor destiny can bring an end to what has already begun. However, through the storm of the night, a star of glory shines bright. Through the howling of the beasts, the song rings clear. Shining star, echoing song You are our dreams and prayers That star is you, and the song is yours. And someday, that hope will become our dreams… our prayers… Shine forth, star of hope! Let your song ring out across all of Vana'diel! And what was split asunder will once more become whole, Complete and inseparable for all eternity. And so the legend ends… …began..…crystal…. Quote: CoP is not the first time adventurers hear lines similar to this. Our first encounter was in the nation rank mission 5-1 (in Fei'Yin). Zeid starts out remembering the first line, but Lion completes the "old song" which she says is called "The Warriors of the Crystal" Quote: The great bane will devour the fair land of Vana'diel The ancient seal will be broken, awakening nightmares of ages past. The blood of innocents will soak the earth, and the world will fall into fear and despair. But as one bright star shines through the clouds at night… And as one song rings clear above the roar of beasts… We hold to one hope in these darkest of times. That they will come, with the wisdom of ages and the strength of thousands, to deliver us from our plight. We await the awakening of the Warriors of the Crystal. Quote: The mention in the Shadow Lord / rank missions is a precursor to the story that is told in the Rise of the Zilart missions. While the first three lines start out the same and is repeated throughout the missions, we do not find out the rest until after completing them all. The ZM ending is as follows: Quote: It all began with a stone, or so the legend says In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods. Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss until, after a time, the gods fell into slumber. However, this age will not last. The great bane will devour the fair land of Vana'diel The ancient seal will be broken, awakening nightmares of ages past. The blood of innocents will soak the earth, and the world will fall into fear and despair. But as one bright star shines through the clouds at night… And as one song rings clear above the roar of beasts… We hold to one hope in these darkest of times. That star is you, and the song is yours. And someday, that hope will become our dreams… our prayers… Sine forth, star of hope! Let your song ring out across all of Vana'diel! And what was split asunder will once more become whole, Complete and inseparable for all eternity. Quote: Finally, while not exactly a recitation of the song, the ending of CoP does give us one final version of this legend, brought to light after all the secrets of Promathia's origin are revealed: Quote: In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods. However, the arrival of death implacable brought an end to the God of Twilight. Aglow with the essence of love eternal, the Dawn Goddess sought to restore the lost divinity. Upon the fallen deity, Altana bestowed the light of the true crystal. In the bodies of mortals uncounted was the Twilight God reborn. Paradise was no longer. Thus was born the world of Vana'diel. Quote: There are plenty of different theories as to why these lyrics are so various, but the one most plausible to me is that SE wanted it to mimic what happens in real life. Like any folk song, different versions of Memoria de la Ŝtono were passed down from generation to generation, and race to race; accordingly, while the themes remain the same, the song changed in the same way that the numerous residents of Vana'diel have adapted and evolved over time. Quote: Young Aldo: Long, long ago...
Long before your great grandfather--or even your great grandfather's great grandfather--ever drew breath, there was a song...
Young Aldo: A song born from the mouths of the ancient gods themselves.
Young Aldo: A dreadful, terrible song that, if sung to its conclusion, would mean the end of the world--the lay of destruction.
Young Aldo: It all began with a stone...
Young Aldo:...or so the legend says.
Young Aldo: In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness.
Young Aldo: It's many-colored light filled the world with life and bought forth mighty gods.
Young Aldo: Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss until, after the a time, the gods fell into slumber.
Young Aldo: That world was called Vana'diel
But the song continues...
Young Aldo: However, this age will not last. The great bane will devour the fair land of Vana'diel
Young Aldo: The ancient seal will be broken, awakening nightmares of ages past.
Young Aldo: A tragic age of darkness will reign.
And yet, the gods will not wake from their slumber...
Young Aldo: That world was called Vana'diel.
But the song continues...
Young Aldo: Yes, it's all becoming so clear now...
Young Aldo: The lay of the ancient gods, a song never meant to reach mortal ears...
Young Aldo: The strains of the forbidden verse have spilled over into our world, weaving themselves into the rush of the wind, the crash of the waves, and the heartbeats of every living being on Vana'diel.
Young Aldo: It has already become one with us, never to return to its rightful time and place.
Young Aldo: A single sound echoes, then echoes once more.
What began as a whisper grows into a roar as it reverberates through time and space.
Young Aldo: Don't you see [2]?
There's no turning back...not now.
Young Aldo: The fate of mankind--of this very world--has been set in motion.
Young Aldo: You have already uncovered the secret lay of the sleeping gods, I see.
Young Aldo: Could this be why the echo has grown so strong...?
Young Aldo: No matter.
The echo of the ancient ode already resonates through our world...
Young Aldo: ...silent though it may be to mortal ears.
Young Aldo: It is this echo that, left unchecked, will cast open the door to Paradise...
Young Aldo: And unravel the very fabric of Vana'diel itself
Young Aldo: But what can be done?
How are we to fight that which can be neither seen nor heard?
Young Aldo: Perhaps there is a way...
Young Aldo: The shards you bought here were not only fragments of the crystal to fall from the heavens.
Young Aldo: Perhaps the others hold the answers we seek.
Perhaps they will reveal to us to save this world
Young Aldo: The Seedspall Roseum, the Seedspall Caerulum and the Seedspall Viridis...
We must recover them, and quickly. Before they fall into the wrong hands...
Young Aldo: If those nosey Goblins were to stumble across them, one can only imagine what effect the power of the crystal might have...
Young Aldo: I'll be waiting for you here.
And [3]...you'd better hurry.
Young Aldo: With each passing moment, the echo grows stronger, ever closer to drowning out the sound of our very existsance... ![]() 
By Ovalidal 2025-02-28 10:53:40
Also, it's important to remember that the Zilart and the civilization they built existed for quite some time before Zilart started to be born with fragments of Promathia's emptiness inside of them. Those born with emptiness inside of them lacked the Zilart's telepathy (the whisper of the soul) and would grow old and die unlike the Zilart. Out of prejudice the Zilart called them Kuluu and considered them a different people. Eventually the Zilartian princess Yve'noile (yes, she's the Zilart bros sister, SE confirmed that many years later) was born as a Kuluu, which lead the king of the Zilart to order the construction of the chamber of Eventide, which rips the emptiness out of people. Using it, he turned her into a full Zilart. I'll be honest, I had no idea about the Zilart Princess, that's really fascinating.
I did want to ask about the Zilart without the essence of Promathia though. I never picked up on this, and was actually of the inclination that the Zilart had always had the Emptiness within them, but the much stronger concentration of the great crystal's light resulted in their immortality, whisper of the soul, etc. The Kuluu emerged because the crystal's light grew fainter in each following generation.
One of the reasons I thought this was because, during the Meltdown, either Diabolos or Graviton (iirc) explain that the Kuluu were fully cleansed of the Chains of Promathia (the emptiness) and rather than becoming Zilart, they became beasts (the tonberry). Diabolos explains that, without the emptiness, the enlightened races (and the beastmen for that matter) would be no different than animals. Am I mistaken about this assumption?
It also seems that this particular line that RadicalArcana shared confirms this:
Quote: In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods. However, the arrival of death implacable brought an end to the God of Twilight. Aglow with the essence of love eternal, the Dawn Goddess sought to restore the lost divinity. Upon the fallen deity, Altana bestowed the light of the true crystal. In the bodies of mortals uncounted was the Twilight God reborn. Paradise was no longer. Thus was born the world of Vana'diel.
By RadialArcana 2025-02-28 12:10:55
I see it like the scene from the Matrix. where they explain that previous worlds failed because they were perfect and humanity need misery and hardship to properly function.
The Zilart were pure and made to be perfect, there were no wars or hatred against others because they were all exactly the same and could hear each others thoughts. They were one people, had the perfect utopia and they all worked together towards their goals.
There were no beastmen either.
They had no darkness within them, it was all contained in the 5 mother crystals.
The problem is, they were not contented or happy and wanted to eventually join the gods in paradise. Even if it meant the destruction of the world and the society they had made.
The darkness in the Kuluu was probably put there by Diabolos, specially to turn them against the Zilart so they could not hear their thoughts and this would allow them to be the puppets of the avatars to do what they needed them doing. The Kuluu didn't decide to do what they did, they were manipulated to do it in their dreams via Diabolos. Diabolos used them.
I don't think the Zilart died out, they went 3 main ways:
They continued as they were originally in Al'Taieu, and eventually became the beings of light and energy called Quasilumin (the npc you talk to in sea).
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Quasilumin
A handful slept in the chamber of Chamber of Eventide? and so avoided what happened to the rest of their people.
The rest of the Zilart, eventually became the 5 races when the darkness from the mother crystals was released and absorbed by them. Many of them also probably became the beastmen when the energy from the protocrystals was also released, it's unlikely those beastmen just randomly appeared out of nowhere given what happened with the Kuluu and that all Tonberry were once Kuluu. The energy of the Ifrit protocrystal, probably lead to the creation of the orcs (which is why they drop fire crystals).
So all sentient life on the planet now, was recreated from the original Zilart. They were repurposed into forms that would not cause trouble and destroy the world again, 5 races of distinct people because one unified people and a utopia would lead to the same fate. The beastmen to give the people a common enemy, instead of concentrating on wiping each other out.
There were also two separate tribes of the Kuluu, one in Beaucedine Glacier that carried out the explosion in Feiyin and another in Sarutabaruta.
It's entirely possible that only one of these tribes decided to have the darkness removed, and this means one tribe became the Tonberry and the other became something else. If you look at the size and obvious link between the Tonberry and the race Grav'iton lead back to Sarutabaruta it's entirely possible the Taru are the decedents of the Kuluu that did not choose to have the darkness removed.
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Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-02-28 12:55:00
Also, it's important to remember that the Zilart and the civilization they built existed for quite some time before Zilart started to be born with fragments of Promathia's emptiness inside of them. Those born with emptiness inside of them lacked the Zilart's telepathy (the whisper of the soul) and would grow old and die unlike the Zilart. Out of prejudice the Zilart called them Kuluu and considered them a different people. Eventually the Zilartian princess Yve'noile (yes, she's the Zilart bros sister, SE confirmed that many years later) was born as a Kuluu, which lead the king of the Zilart to order the construction of the chamber of Eventide, which rips the emptiness out of people. Using it, he turned her into a full Zilart. I'll be honest, I had no idea about the Zilart Princess, that's really fascinating.
I did want to ask about the Zilart without the essence of Promathia though. I never picked up on this, and was actually of the inclination that the Zilart had always had the Emptiness within them, but the much stronger concentration of the great crystal's light resulted in their immortality, whisper of the soul, etc. The Kuluu emerged because the crystal's light grew fainter in each following generation.
One of the reasons I thought this was because, during the Meltdown, either Diabolos or Graviton (iirc) explain that the Kuluu were fully cleansed of the Chains of Promathia (the emptiness) and rather than becoming Zilart, they became beasts (the tonberry). Diabolos explains that, without the emptiness, the enlightened races (and the beastmen for that matter) would be no different than animals. Am I mistaken about this assumption?
It also seems that this particular line that RadicalArcana shared confirms this:
Quote: In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful, banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty gods. However, the arrival of death implacable brought an end to the God of Twilight. Aglow with the essence of love eternal, the Dawn Goddess sought to restore the lost divinity. Upon the fallen deity, Altana bestowed the light of the true crystal. In the bodies of mortals uncounted was the Twilight God reborn. Paradise was no longer. Thus was born the world of Vana'diel.
Grav'iton explains it after you kill her Tonberry form in Chamber of Sacrifice near the start of Rise of The Zilart.
"An enormous amount of the crystals' energy was focused into Tu'Lia. We, The Kuluu, led an assault on the northen most ark, destroying it and putting an end to the Zilart's abominable plan. However, the crystals began to spin out of control as a result, and this triggered The Meltdown. They unleashed a tremendous amount of energy all across Vana'diel. This destroyed the Zilart and rendered the Northlands uninhabitable. Over time, exposure to the crystals' energy turned the Kuluu that survived into the tonberries you see today."
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By Bismarck.Josiahflaming 2025-02-28 13:05:15
The relationship between Provenance Watcher and the Caturae surprised me, I did not expect to see a monster like him at the end of all this Caturae content lol
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Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-02-28 13:17:50
Always be careful when talking about XI lore. People remember and put together the vagaries of the story in wildly different ways. From slight alterations to mindboggling huge ones.
Some pretty common ones I've seen over the years:
1. Most commonly people tend to assert that The Adventurer is never important to any of the storylines. You might wonder, "How?!" A lot of the 75 era players never finished any of the mission storylines. So in general, these people tend to not even know the whole story of each story.
2. Insertion of supposition as fact, particularly revolving around things that can only be inferred and are inferred differently.
3. XI vets on XIV forums like to pretend that they know the whole story of XI, even if they never finished it, and they just straight up make ***up.
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Posts: 1,444
By Asura.Pergatory 2025-02-28 13:40:49
It's been a REALLY long time so I don't recall specifics, but you may want to dive back into the "Out of the Depths" line of quests if you want to keep pulling at those threads. I believe it gives some backstory into the beastman races, and from what I recall, they were not created in the same way as the 5 races.
Edit:
2. Insertion of supposition as fact, particularly revolving around things that can only be inferred and are inferred differently.
3. XI vets on XIV forums like to pretend that they know the whole story of XI, even if they never finished it, and they just straight up make ***up. There's a guy on Reddit doing a LOT of this. Just completely making up wild stories about FFXI. They're pretty cool and most jive with the known lore so it's fun to read, but they're completely made up.
Edit 2: Found this bit of dialog on the Return to the Depths quest.
Quote: Muckvix: When Movalpolos popped up a hundred years ago, the Moblins were still willin' ta talk with others.
Muckvix: But after their contact with people, they had some sorta revelation. The Moblins started believin' they were the children of the Twilight God.
Muckvix: That's why the Moblins never teamed up with the Shadow Lord in that big fracas twenty years ago.
Muckvix: When the Moblin messengers delivered their refusal to join the Shadow Lord's army, they were torn ta pieces.
Muckvix: The message went like this:
Promathia is the true king of the beastmen. The Shadow Lord is an impostor, and holds no ties to the Twilight God.
Muckvix: Ever since then, the Moblins have even been shunned by other beastmen.
Muckvix: This all happened because of their fanatical devotion ta Promathia.
There's no way a child of Altana would be tolerated in the Moblin City.
I may have been misremembering how much was actually revealed. I remembered the bit about the Moblins believing they're children of Promathia, but I think that was basically just a rumor that caught on because Promathia is the opposite of Altana like beastmen are the opposite of the children of Altana.
I can't remember if any more actual evidence was added as to where they really came from. Still, I really enjoyed the quests and highly recommend them for lore fans.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nekonarf
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By Ragnarok.Nekonarf 2025-02-28 14:11:19
There's a guy on Reddit doing a LOT of this. Just completely making up wild stories about FFXI. They're pretty cool and most jive with the known lore so it's fun to read, but they're completely made up.
They're just taking mushrooms and opening their favorite choose your own adventure book.
By Ovalidal 2025-02-28 16:55:58
I appreciate the feedback on some of this stuff! With regards to my thoughts on the Zilart having trace amounts of the emptiness, it was based on this cutscene:
Quote: CoP 5-2
Diabolos: I must warn you. It is not your will that guides you to the gates… but the will of Promathia. You and every other soul in this world are slaves to the will of the Twilight God. And that is why Bahamut, keeper of the Gates of Paradise, has set out to destroy you.
Ulmia: The will of Promathia…?
Tenzen: So, the true reason Bahamut is deemed us enemies lies in the curse… Lord Diabolos! Is there any way to break these chains that bind us?
Diabolos: There is… one way… Long ago, remnants of the Kuluu came to me and asked me to release them from the chains of Promathia. I did as they asked… However, the result was tragic. The Kuluu lost their original selves. Children of Vana’diel! Promathia’s curse is necessary for the survival of your species. Without it you would be nothing. It is only a curse because that is the name you have given it. It is only your chains because that is what you make it. After re-watching this, I think Waffle is 100% right. The Zilart didn't have any emptiness. Though, I'm not sure what Diabolos is referring to. Was he partially responsible for the Kuluu's transformation into the tonberry during the meltdown or was he just referring to his involvement in the war?
Also, here's that line from Hades when he describes some people as having awakened, and then referencing the stories of the celestials.
Quote: SoA 5-2-2
Despite your endless meandering, you occasionally give life to exceptional individuals. An “awakening.” Your much-lauded August was one such man. These anomalies across the ages are spiritual leaders, erudite sages, ferocious generals… and more.
We know that Hades and Teodor weren't always immortal beings. I believe Teodor says that they were originally from the adventurer's world, from the distant past. So, I don't know how reliable Hades' knowledge of history would be. This kinda begs the question though, what is Hades? Clearly not an Avatar, a Naakual, or a beast from Tartarus. IIRC, the man who becoming Hades wasn't a posession, but a gradual transformation, though I could be wrong.
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By Afania 2025-03-03 08:47:52
Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »Most of these look like AI trash.
I got these pictures before AI was even a thing.
These are official Square Enix artworks, for the FF mobious card game. There are lots of others too.
You can find them all on the wiki
https://mobius.fandom.com/wiki/Mobius_Final_Fantasy_Wiki
GANs have been around since 2013, but okay. Yeah before AI got it.
Not AI, this reddit post has reference on all FF Mobius artist's portfolio from 7 years ago. I don't think 2017-18 AI had this level of quality, nevermind the fact that some of those people are big name artists with tens and thousands of followers. they would ruin their career and reputation if they go on with tag-less AI art spamming.
By Tarage 2025-03-16 21:15:53
For reasons, I am playing a new character through all of the major story missions. I'm working through Promathia and it says that the Moblins were searching for an "Iron Giant" before they found the Promathia statue and got confused. Is the Iron Giant Alexander? Or possibly those Iron Giant mobs?
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Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-03-16 23:14:19
It was likely a nod to them searching for Alexander before they really nailed down where/what Alexander would be, since CoP was written in 03 and released in 04.
The Ironclad Giants were first introduced to the game in Abyssea, and some sources note them as Archaic Machinery, which would put them into the same family of monsters as Archaic Gears and Chariots. However, some list them as Arcana, and I'm not super sure cause I've never fought one on DRK to see if Arcane Crest works on them.
But beyond that they are not present in Alzadaal Undersea Ruins at all, but they showed up in Abyssea, Voidwatch, and Rakaznar.
So I'd say they're from Tartarus and beings capable of crossing dimensions because they're entities possessing iron heads that control the larger body in the first place.
And that, no, they were not what the Moblins were looking for, but there isn't a concreteness about that, that I recall. I'll look into it further tomorrow if I remember too.
By Tarage 2025-03-16 23:37:17
Since we're talking about Tartarus, maybe you or someone else can help me understand what happened at the end of Adoulin. What is up with that dude who transformed into Hades? What was Hades even after? I feel like I have a firm grasp of everything relating to every other expansion, but I have no clue what Hades was up to.
Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-03-17 04:21:13
Since we're talking about Tartarus, maybe you or someone else can help me understand what happened at the end of Adoulin. What is up with that dude who transformed into Hades? What was Hades even after? I feel like I have a firm grasp of everything relating to every other expansion, but I have no clue what Hades was up to.
Well the entirety of Rakaznar is actually a vessel or structure that's crossed into Vana'diel from another dimension, in this case, Tatarus.
The beings within are Tartarus's denizens, and they spill out of it to live in Vana'diel. At some point, the man who would become Hades had the allegiance of Teodor, and he forced Teodor to scout into Tartarus through a rift available in Rakaznar. After Teodor got back, he himself went in, and was corrupted or possessed in some way.
He makes mention of saving the souls of Tartarus or something, and I believe the intention of the writers is that Rakaznar is actually an ark of souls from Tartarus seeking a more hospitable world/possibly bodies to inhabit.
Only, August came to Ulbuka bearing a world tree sapling, and started to colonize it. He overcame the Naakuals and made them pledge service to him, and to guard Rakaznar so that people wouldn't get near it and be possessed or killed. The Naakuals are actually beasts from Tartarus, as I've said a whole bunch.
Basically, Hades's deal is attempted world domination/corruption for the sake of Tartarus. But he's a lot less apologetic about it. And in English anyway it kinda gets sidelined by his more poetic dialogue revolving around insulting the heroes/Morimar etc. Like he mentions stopping the cycle of souls... He mentions never dying. He mentions having lived life through many vessels over millenia. Once beaten in his Elvaan form he says something like, "I am constrained by my remaining humanity!"
He then opts to open Tartarus to gain more power from its darkness, but that apparently threatens to destroy the Rakaznar Turris and possibly the land, so August who wasn't dead pops out and along with Rosulatioa and Teodor turns into a new world tree which seals or stops Tartarus's explosion.
By Tarage 2025-03-17 11:05:58
Since we're talking about Tartarus, maybe you or someone else can help me understand what happened at the end of Adoulin. What is up with that dude who transformed into Hades? What was Hades even after? I feel like I have a firm grasp of everything relating to every other expansion, but I have no clue what Hades was up to.
Well the entirety of Rakaznar is actually a vessel or structure that's crossed into Vana'diel from another dimension, in this case, Tatarus.
The beings within are Tartarus's denizens, and they spill out of it to live in Vana'diel. At some point, the man who would become Hades had the allegiance of Teodor, and he forced Teodor to scout into Tartarus through a rift available in Rakaznar. After Teodor got back, he himself went in, and was corrupted or possessed in some way.
He makes mention of saving the souls of Tartarus or something, and I believe the intention of the writers is that Rakaznar is actually an ark of souls from Tartarus seeking a more hospitable world/possibly bodies to inhabit.
Only, August came to Ulbuka bearing a world tree sapling, and started to colonize it. He overcame the Naakuals and made them pledge service to him, and to guard Rakaznar so that people wouldn't get near it and be possessed or killed. The Naakuals are actually beasts from Tartarus, as I've said a whole bunch.
Basically, Hades's deal is attempted world domination/corruption for the sake of Tartarus. But he's a lot less apologetic about it. And in English anyway it kinda gets sidelined by his more poetic dialogue revolving around insulting the heroes/Morimar etc. Like he mentions stopping the cycle of souls... He mentions never dying. He mentions having lived life through many vessels over millenia. Once beaten in his Elvaan form he says something like, "I am constrained by my remaining humanity!"
He then opts to open Tartarus to gain more power from its darkness, but that apparently threatens to destroy the Rakaznar Turris and possibly the land, so August who wasn't dead pops out and along with Rosulatioa and Teodor turns into a new world tree which seals or stops Tartarus's explosion.
Seems much less put together than the other expansions, but I guess that's to be expected by it's rushed conclusion since they were shifting to maintenance mode at that point. Yes, I know they didn't ACTUALLY go into maintenance mode but they clearly weren't thinking about making anything else at that point. Did they ever explain WHY Morimar was even still alive at that point? None of his compatriots were. Sorry if this is asking too many questions for this thread.
Something that occurred to me that may not be right but feels like it could be a thing: Siren's mothercrystal. Most of the non-celestial Avatars have a mothercrystal they're tied to. Cait-Sith and Atomos are obvious exceptions due to their weirdly created nature, but I always wondered if perhaps Siren could be of the 6th newly-created mothercrystal that was made in Reisenjima. I don't know the exact wording, but I thought there was some time travel shenanigans going on with her existance in our time.
By fractalvoid 2025-03-17 12:02:01
Once beaten in his Elvaan form he says something like, "I am constrained by my remaining humanity!"
Yup, he says basically this after first-form fight before transformining into the Aminon guy
Did they ever explain WHY Morimar was even still alive at that point?
Not explicitly (nor do they really explain August popping up at the end either, afaik) but I think this has to do with the pledge/allegiance he made with August. I mean dude survives a hexagun blast from point blank and then Cyclone Axes Melvien half a second later, what a G.
I actually think Adoulin has some of the best/most put together lore of any of the expansions... it is just VERY clear they got rushed and things got cut at the end...
There is the whole "friendship" stat with Arceila that is tracked and modified by dialogue choices in the missions, and those directly impact the dialogue, as well as the content (fetch quest item changes depending on your friendship level) but I don't think they would have made a system like that just for a random fetch quest and some dialogue...
By Tarage 2025-03-17 12:11:24
Once beaten in his Elvaan form he says something like, "I am constrained by my remaining humanity!"
Yup, he says basically this after first-form fight before transformining into the Aminon guy
Did they ever explain WHY Morimar was even still alive at that point?
Not explicitly (nor do they really explain August popping up at the end either, afaik) but I think this has to do with the pledge/allegiance he made with August. I mean dude survives a hexagun blast from point blank and then Cyclone Axes Melvien half a second later, what a G.
I actually think Adoulin has some of the best/most put together lore of any of the expansions... it is just VERY clear they got rushed and things got cut at the end...
There is the whole "friendship" stat with Arceila that is tracked and modified by dialogue choices in the missions, and those directly impact the dialogue, as well as the content (fetch quest item changes depending on your friendship level) but I don't think they would have made a system like that just for a random fetch quest and some dialogue...
You know it's funny, going through old content, you can see the points at which they were trying stuff. Going from Zilart's "A mission is a mission good luck figuring out where you are in said mission" to CoP's "What if we just break up all missions into a bunch of tiny *** sub-missions will that help?" till they just gave up and accepted that people were going to need wikis.
Anything we should probably know but don't about FFXI at this point? Post yours here, and maybe if any are interesting enough we can work on solving them. If it is already known, try to reference where.
I would like to know more about the defense values for Odyssey and Sortie bosses. It would be useful to make existing spreadsheets and sims even more accurate. I think there is some info about these NMs out there, but I can't recall where.
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