Ongo V20 Help

Thank you all for the help. Just need to get some time to try again.

With the above MB set using:
Marin Staff and Enki Strap
356+162 int with Austerity +1
333+162 with Hachirin no obi

Bunzi and Amarapi Shield
337+162 int with Austerity +1
314+162 with Hachirin no obi

I did swap my merits, didn't even think about setting them for Stone.

Lol, I wasn't aware that suggestions were so highly disregarded and offensive to some. My sincere apologies for mentioning an alternative method that may actually help some players

While I do agree with you that a COR is not ideal to replace for that fight and that yes ideally you would practice on a job until you are proficient at what your role is within the standard composition. But it is winnable without a COR and replacing it with the THF.

I have done both the standard party composition and the THF composition at V20 and won. So have others... it's not an unreasonable suggestion if the party is hitting a roadblock.

Nope, SCH has zero skillchain responsibilites, Helix and heal, MB within the couple rayke windows you get and at the very end of the 4th skillchain window as to not wall BLM.

THF is the SC machine. 4 stepping gravitation > darkness > darkness non stop, keeping each burst window open for as long as realistically possible.

Your biggest issues are dispel and time(without the rayke/gambit resets and potential wildcard reset for bolster etc time can be very tight, its imperative you sc nonstop), BRD prioritizes haste on you for this reason. Stay in DT TP set the entire time, I literally disable my gearswap file for this if I ever get asked to fill that role. I have full dt/stp set, keep warders charm on for thunder resist/absorb, eat miso ramen etc. Your goal is to sc and stay alive, you have no need to swap sets.

Larceny elemental sforzo at 75% to maintain damage output and not come to a halt for the 30 seconds its up, perfect dodge if add is on you until BRD hopefully can get its attention.

Using a THF is an interesting option that I never considered. But I'm curious if you think adding a THF to do everything you mentioned is more or less challenging of a strat to pull off than having a COR shoot/sc/roll/reset? An alternative is only as good as the people running said strat. Is having to re-apply songs and heal the THF constantly a better alternative than the standard cor strat? Genuinely asking for your feedback on that, since i've never run it with a THF instead.

No offense taken. But when I see someone suggest something sub optimal or out of the ordinary I’m going to critique it. There’s a reason the meta strategies for these fights are what they are. They’re proven and effective and the most efficient path to a clear. Deviating from them is not going to make the average experience easier.

But if you do insist on going the rout of cutting the Corsair it shouldn’t be a thief making the skillchains. It should probably be a dancer. Dancer has native dual wield 5 instead of thief’s dual wield 4, and they have haste samba, which makes it easier for them to maintain capped attack speed through the inevitable dispels. Reverse flourish is another skillchain enabler they have over thief. Dancer can self cure, which eases the burden on the scholsr. And finally dancer has stutter step, which lowers Ongos magic evasion, meaning your mages nuking is more accurate. Thief has none of these. The only advantage thief brings to the fight over dancer is larceny, which lets you get through svortzo early. And if that 30 seconds is that make or break it really highlights the loss of effectiveness in this strategy. The standard group should be capable of winning with several minutes to spare if things are done right. So I still wouldn’t recommend a thief. Dancer just does it better.

Dancer can't 4 step gravitation > darkness > darkness. Otherwise I would agree with you, I love DNC and would much rather be on that job for that particular composition on v20. But it can't make the same multi-step.

So in this very specific instance, unfortunately DNC does not do it better.

Sure they can. In fact, they can turn it into a 5 step and make the gravitation and darkness even more powerful skillchain enablers.

Ruthless Stroke --> Cyclone (Fusion ) --> Evisceration (Gravitation) --> Rudra's Storm (Darkness) --> Rudra's Storm (Darkness)

Or am I missing something here? Is this skillchain not better than the one the thief would be using? Bursting off 3 4 and 5 step skillchains will result in a LOT more nuke damage than the alternative. Dancer may not have access to mandalic stab, but they can circumvent it through ruthless stroke. The caveat is of course you need to have stage 4 or 5 Mpu Gandring, but if you do this is absolutely the better way to go. And if we're throwing REMA class specific weaponskills into the mix then fair's fair. Dancer DOES skillchains. Now that we have MPU gandring at our disposal there is nothing dancer cannot do with skillchains on par with or better than the alternatives in other classes.

It's an alternative method to win, with it's own drawbacks.

I am by no means saying it is better, in fact I wholeheartedly know that the standard composition is better and faster. But I also know that the SCH role can be a little hectic for some having to focus on maintaining sc frequency, healing, bursting, maintaining helix etc. Calling out for random deal resets and coordinating with RUN BLM GEO for resets on strats and rayke/gambit/SPs etc.

THF simply removes the stress from the SCH for SC frequency. SCH is then for most of the fight really only concerned about healing and helix application(obviously embrava when appropriate and bursting when appropriate) but its simply one less thing the SCH has to concern itself with.

The trade off, sure you are potentially healing the THF more, but Regen and Embrava do a lot of heavy lifting for a while, and not having to burst as often so your aren't walling the BLM allows you to have more focus on just healing etc. If the SCH is timing bursts appropriately and not walling BLM they can definitely be more involved potentially if their timing is good.

BRD will have to prioritize songs on THF if dispelled for sure, so thats a factor but BRD isn't doing much else aside from add and threnody so shouldn't really be an issue and isn't in my experience. Embrava helps with this as well as it isn't dispelled. Good chunk of haste. RUN valiance helps THF immensely so whenever that's maintained as much as possible... and because you aren't fishing for resets... RUN can use all its lovely defensive JA's.

It has it's own issues, but it is winnable and for a group that might be struggling with sc frequency/timing and or maybe its a bit much on the SCH at V20 with the add... it does simplify that role.

THF absolutely needs a bunch of panaceas, bring viles for oh ***moments etc. Be smart, don't play dumb lol

When I did this, this was pre prime weapons... so no it was not an option.

Ruthless stroke may change things if DNC has it sure, but you still aren't bursting on the fusion part, which is only a small portion of the sc, but it's also wasted time each sc round which may add up. Perhaps it would be better though, I don't know... Ruthless stroke was not option at the time when I did it. Maybe it can do it better now with that.

My point was and still is, V20 is possible with THF instead of COR... maybe it is with DNC now too... I don't have the answer to that question within my own experience.

Not being able to burst off the fusion part is a non issue. With the speed that dancer would be making the chain you just ignore the fusion and nuke off the gravitation and two darknesses. No MP loss on the mages and let's be honest here, you're talking about 10% more damage on each successive stage of the skillchain. We all know how beneficial extending skillchains is for nuke damage. To quote the wiki


This is the better rout. It's absolutely stronger. A LOT stronger actually.

Edit: Dancer also gets subtle blow VIII, which is 32 subtle blow native. They cap subtle blow with ease, and that's going to affect Ongo's tp spam. So less incoming damage if you go the dancer rout. Stage 4 or 5 Mpu Dancer is by far the better pick for this strategy.

Your text to link here...

Found this for anyone interested, it's 2+ years old. Some minor differences from my experience but the premise is the same, nothing new, just an alternate method for the same result.

In the standard setup the SCH doesn't need to SC either, the RUN and COR do the 4 step. I don't recall having skillchain frequency issues, but that was a long time ago.

It is cool to see a working non-meta strat, though I also don't see it being any easier for most groups to pull off.

That's a very interesting approach, I wonder if it has value at v 25. Obviously being able to larceny saves a decent amount of time.

Unfortunately no, it has ZERO value at v25. THF will not be able to gain tp at all. V25 t3 anything are quite different in that regard. 100% immunity to all damage types but 1, in Ongo's case it will take zero damage from any source unless it is magic. Thus no tp gain for thf in that specific encounter.

can't really get away from cor on v25 because Ongo takes 0 melee damage.

The OP mb set seems off to me. Agwu hands meta ring regal earring at a glance.

Is a few ways to go about the sc for v20. Would honestly just make it a 6step 4 from sch to run to cor. V25 can go from 75> high 30s during tr. V20 should pretty much last most of the fight id assume.