Bro
Edit your post and delete the names of the bots my word.
Tabarnak
Newer Players Need To Step Up Their Game
Newer players need to step up their game
Being a new player in FFXI is a nightmare and I feel bad for new players. I wish the game itself had more tools to help people get up-to-speed, but part of its charm has always been the community. The game doesn't tell you ***about any mechanics, NMs, or literally anything. This game has always been built on wikis and forums, for better or worse.
That said, I couldn't possibly agree with the OP more and I wish I could give him 10 votes. Newer players need to step up their game. Follow the guidance of the veterans, ask questions (especially informed questions), and do research.
If you bring nothing to the table, you're only going to frustrate the people who are trying to help you. If you bring a lot to the table, you will get LOADS of support from people.
At the risk of getting into another 3 page discussion about the definition of automation:
Literally nobody is 6-boxing without automation. Nobody. Not a single person, ever.
That said, I couldn't possibly agree with the OP more and I wish I could give him 10 votes. Newer players need to step up their game. Follow the guidance of the veterans, ask questions (especially informed questions), and do research.
If you bring nothing to the table, you're only going to frustrate the people who are trying to help you. If you bring a lot to the table, you will get LOADS of support from people.
Taeketsu said: »
Is 6 boxing without automation any better
At the risk of getting into another 3 page discussion about the definition of automation:
Literally nobody is 6-boxing without automation. Nobody. Not a single person, ever.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Literally nobody is 6-boxing without automation. Nobody. Not a single person, ever.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-02-03/japanese-video-rental-store-owner-has-truly-insane-gaming-setup/.111697
I will wait for your response, That is not 6 boxing he clearly has more then 6 characters...
[+]
My Two Cents on "Parses" – A Deeper Look
Parses, beyond being a tool for improvement, demonstrate the attention, dedication, and level of commitment a "Damage Dealer" has to both themselves and the group.
Quick target switching, aligning mobs like "Saevel" does, mentally planning your next target, knowing when to throw a WS to prevent a mob’s TP move, selecting the right WS depending on the enemy, switching to your -DT set when you see a TP move incoming, outrunning a dangerous TP move—all of this falls under what we call: "Mechanical Skills" and "Gamesense." While this isn’t a competitive game like Overwatch, Valorant, Apex Legends, or even ARPG Monster Hunter World/Rise, Elden Ring or FFXIV raids, WoW raid mythics, these skills do exist in FFXI, It’s not healthy to deny or downplay them because it makes you come off as emotional rather than rational.
How to Use "Parses" in a Healthy Way as a Leader
Ideally, every player should have at least one support job and one DD job, rotating between them to avoid locking anyone into a single role. If you don’t do this, you risk losing valuable LS members by telling them, "Sorry, you're BRD always," and never letting them play their DDs.
If you didn’t put a proper "filter" in your LS and have too many casual players, then you should use parses to highlight those delivering consistent damage, those with impeccable attendance, and those who aren’t generating excessive toxicity. Those players should be your DD mains. As for the more casual players, you need to explain: If you’re not pulling the numbers of our main DDs, you’re going to play support. I’m not taking bad DD players to win Wave 3 or tackle Odyssey V20-V25 victories, and I’m certainly not bringing you along for Segment-C farming if you don’t have the "skills" and "gear" to back it up.
Parses, beyond being a tool for improvement, demonstrate the attention, dedication, and level of commitment a "Damage Dealer" has to both themselves and the group.
Quick target switching, aligning mobs like "Saevel" does, mentally planning your next target, knowing when to throw a WS to prevent a mob’s TP move, selecting the right WS depending on the enemy, switching to your -DT set when you see a TP move incoming, outrunning a dangerous TP move—all of this falls under what we call: "Mechanical Skills" and "Gamesense." While this isn’t a competitive game like Overwatch, Valorant, Apex Legends, or even ARPG Monster Hunter World/Rise, Elden Ring or FFXIV raids, WoW raid mythics, these skills do exist in FFXI, It’s not healthy to deny or downplay them because it makes you come off as emotional rather than rational.
How to Use "Parses" in a Healthy Way as a Leader
Ideally, every player should have at least one support job and one DD job, rotating between them to avoid locking anyone into a single role. If you don’t do this, you risk losing valuable LS members by telling them, "Sorry, you're BRD always," and never letting them play their DDs.
If you didn’t put a proper "filter" in your LS and have too many casual players, then you should use parses to highlight those delivering consistent damage, those with impeccable attendance, and those who aren’t generating excessive toxicity. Those players should be your DD mains. As for the more casual players, you need to explain: If you’re not pulling the numbers of our main DDs, you’re going to play support. I’m not taking bad DD players to win Wave 3 or tackle Odyssey V20-V25 victories, and I’m certainly not bringing you along for Segment-C farming if you don’t have the "skills" and "gear" to back it up.
Pantafernando said: »
Kaffy said: »
Here OP just wanted some newer players to be a little more self-sufficient and ya'll gotta ackshually each other to death over things only barely related to the topic.
Newbies need to step up their game: they need to cheat more, multibox more, bot more, use more drugs, mug old grandmas, do more sex with prostitutes.
And, if you're not spending $100 a month on gil, you're playing the game wrong! /s
Sylvebits said: »
I'll never understand the 6 boxing with automation... just feels like you might as well play OSRS
Tbh, I never understood multiboxing period but to each their own.
I know people doing it and I don't care if you are. I even play with multiboxers. I wouldn't be able to focus myself, and i'm cheap.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
TBH, I would argue that trusts are 100% bots.
Huh? A gameplay feature is now a bot? I'm completely lost.
[+]
Well he's sure as hell not playing 12 characters at once with controllers. Filthy controller user.
I suppose I should have been more clear. Nobody is effectively 6-boxing without automation. There's no chance this guy could do anything even remotely challenging with 12 controllers in modern ffxi. I'm sure you could do a ***job of anything you want with 6 characters. Hell, if you turn on 100 PCs and connect 100 controllers you can claim you're playing 100 characters, but if you only touch each character once every 30 minutes, that's a bit of a stretch.
The most I've ever done is 4 characters at once and let me tell you: you're not really playing most of them once you get past ~2. Casting songs and bubbles every 10 minutes isn't "playing" that character, IMO.
Interesting philosophical debate though:
If you leave a character AFK auto-attacking, are you "playing" that character?
If you cast songs every 10 minutes on BRD, are you "playing" that character?
If you do bubbles every 5 minutes on GEO, are you "playing" that character?
If you cast a regen every 10 minutes on SCH, are you "playing" that character?
In the intervening time, I mean.
I'd say if you're taking an action on a character every...30 seconds or so? Then I'll count it as "playing" that character. I doubt this man is doing actions on 12 characters every 30 seconds, for hours at a time. His brain would melt.
I suppose I should have been more clear. Nobody is effectively 6-boxing without automation. There's no chance this guy could do anything even remotely challenging with 12 controllers in modern ffxi. I'm sure you could do a ***job of anything you want with 6 characters. Hell, if you turn on 100 PCs and connect 100 controllers you can claim you're playing 100 characters, but if you only touch each character once every 30 minutes, that's a bit of a stretch.
The most I've ever done is 4 characters at once and let me tell you: you're not really playing most of them once you get past ~2. Casting songs and bubbles every 10 minutes isn't "playing" that character, IMO.
Interesting philosophical debate though:
If you leave a character AFK auto-attacking, are you "playing" that character?
If you cast songs every 10 minutes on BRD, are you "playing" that character?
If you do bubbles every 5 minutes on GEO, are you "playing" that character?
If you cast a regen every 10 minutes on SCH, are you "playing" that character?
In the intervening time, I mean.
I'd say if you're taking an action on a character every...30 seconds or so? Then I'll count it as "playing" that character. I doubt this man is doing actions on 12 characters every 30 seconds, for hours at a time. His brain would melt.
[+]
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
I used the word automatic to describe the input broadcasting process, not to relate the Send addon to automation or botting.
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Can we maybe get a more recent example of a legit multibox please? I'm trying to make your case, but those CRT are making me feel 'dusty'.
Seun said: »
I used the word automatic to describe the input broadcasting process, not to relate the Send addon to automation or botting.
Like I have a lot of factory processes that are still considered "manual" because the operator pushes buttons at each stage of the process to command the machines, the automatic processes are ones that we drop a tray of parts at the input and walk away and it start picking them up and testing them.
Seun said: »
Can we maybe get a more recent example of a legit multibox please? I'm trying to make your case, but those CRT are making me feel 'dusty'.
...It hurt me to see that the article was 7 years old now, god why.
[+]
Prove this.
Gets proven.
No not like that
Gets proven.
No not like that
[+]
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
I like how he went all out "Fk that window" + left the box of tissues there.
[+]
Fenrir.Richybear said: »
Prove this.
Gets proven.
No not like that
Gets proven.
No not like that
I played one of my friend's characters a few months ago. By your definition, am I still playing that character now, just between inputs? ***, I'm "playing" all my mules right now too, because I played them yesterday and right now I'm just between actions.
Or is it just having a character logged in that counts? If I log in 10 different accounts, am I playing all 10 of them even though I'm out to lunch?
If having a character logged in and displayed on a TV while the controller rests on a table is considered playing them, your bar is extremely low.
You played one of your friends characters? That's against the ToS you filthy cheater. may as well be RMT and stabbed a guy.
Are you actually Diddy?
Are you actually Diddy?
[+]
Let me know who win the Karen’s award … the last few pages been nothing but a waste for new players and maybe even an example of “you know what? I don’t need that in my life" good job "veterans”.
[+]
Or maybe they feel this is the place for them.
There is a weirdo fir everything
And most of them gather at FFXIAH
There is a weirdo fir everything
And most of them gather at FFXIAH
This went from "maybe players that want to do certain content should be ready to actually do said content" to "any tools is automation and that's bad grr".
Successfully, presumably, by someone.
To summarise for any new players, and by new I mean more casual existing players since XI doesn't have any new new players, actually reading:
Successfully, presumably, by someone.
To summarise for any new players, and by new I mean more casual existing players since XI doesn't have any new new players, actually reading:
You do not need to multi box to do Sortie/Odyssey
You do need appropriate gear, typically REMAs and Ody/Sortie armor.
There's lots to do in game that isn't Sortie or Odyssey - have fun.
If you do come to the point where you want to do the hardest content, everyone will need to play a role, and that includes support roles. Be prepared to fill at least one of these roles, competently, if you want to do the content.
You do not need tools or heavy automation
You do not need to buy gil.
You do not need to buy the most expensive AH weapons
You do not need to spend 1B on dark matter augments.
[+]
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Seun said: »
I used the word automatic to describe the input broadcasting process, not to relate the Send addon to automation or botting.
Isn't Send software that is broadcasting input across multiple clients? If I am misunderstanding or there is more to it than that, I apologize. If that is what it does then I don't think we need to try and redefine it. IBS isn't new.
Seun said: »
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Seun said: »
I used the word automatic to describe the input broadcasting process, not to relate the Send addon to automation or botting.
Isn't Send software that is broadcasting input across multiple clients? If I am misunderstanding or there is more to it than that, I apologize. If that is what it does then I don't think we need to try and redefine it. IBS isn't new.
I don't believe people would argue that activation is automated.
I like what thorny said on the last page, it really is hard to nail down in perfect unambiguous terms. Most will just say "you know it when you see it". and whether something is QoL or a Bot is always going to be up for debate.
The conversation never really amounts to anything it usually just dies off once one side gets bored of beating the horse.
[+]
Dodik said: »
You do not need to spend 1B on dark matter augments.
I feel singled out here!
[+]
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
Let me know who win the Karen’s award … the last few pages been nothing but a waste for new players and maybe even an example of “you know what? I don’t need that in my life" good job "veterans”.
Dude, if people were as reasonable and hard-nosed as you, Afania, Dodik, Taint, Saevel, Kylos, and even Maletaru, this forum would be incredible.
Unfortunately, the site doesn’t have moderators, and only "Rocks" comes around to shut down topics when he's fed up with all the garbage.
If we’re going to S.H.I.T. post, let’s at least do it right.
God... I wish I were a Brazilian player so I could be the worst player in FFXI, only talk about soccer, have zero emotional intelligence, make fun of personal stories, and, when someone brings up science, stare at the "Christ the Redeemer" statue and ask, "My God, how can I have 14,000 posts on this stupid forum and still be a useless idiot?" in Portuguese, always ending up dead last in every damage parse… When I play healer, my party dies 10 times over, I can’t even keep three sad buffs on BRD, and in my 14k posts, I’ve never contributed anything worthwhile. Sorry, I just don't have the brains for anything more
-----------------------
Please… If you’re a returning player, your goal should be to be the worst player in FFXI. Look at me—I’m so financially screwed I have to live off welfare programs in Sweden. I can’t even afford my FFXI sub, let alone Wardrobe 3. :( And don’t even mention dual-boxing.
To be like me, equip your NQ Sulevia, take five years to reach M.LV10, use your Kaja Sword, and spend all your time in Bahamut LSes begging for help to kill Bubble Bernie... Because you’re so inept that when you play SCH, you don’t even know how to cast AoE Regen. Oh my God. If you use Windower, it’s unethical; if you parse, it’s unethical; if you use Gearswap, you’re hacking. And when you go to KRT or Bibiki Bay, put blindfolds on.
Imagine, a "Mexican nobody" on the forum living in a third-world country can afford to drop $125 a month on FFXI, while here I am in Sweden, a first-world country, and I can’t even afford Netflix.
Ahh… How wonderful it would be if this forum had moderation, right? Sorry, Rocks, but until there’s better moderation, it’s impossible to have a real debate here.
[+]
Taeketsu said: »
Sylvebits said: »
I'll never understand the 6 boxing with automation... just feels like you might as well play OSRS
Is 6 boxing without automation any better? I'm sure its a controversial opinion but personally I think 6 boxing contributes to killing the game community. Does it make SE money? Hell yes. Do they know people do it? Hell yes. But again, relative to the topic of this thread- - it takes up spots that newer or less experienced players looking to get into content would be able to fill.
I think I saw someone here say they would never give up a human spot for an alt in their Sortie run, but I highly doubt that is true for most.
Multi-box to that level does cheapen and is a detriment to the game, especially when it's shoved in new players faces seconds after character creation. Seeing a train of 6 character run is such a ***experience.
But to clarify, if you're inputting all your actions and reacting manually, then I think that is absolutely more forgivable then an automaton player. I guess what I'm saying is like.. running a multi-box with auto healing and botted actions just makes playing so worthless and is a demoralizing sight to see, especially for new players now thinking that's the standard.
[+]
CrAZYVIC said: »
Dude, if people were as reasonable and hard-nosed as you, Afania, Dodik, Taint, Saevel, Kylos, and even Maletaru, this forum would be incredible.
Hey, why my name isnt here.
CrAZYVIC said: »
God... I wish I were a Brazilian player so I could be the worst player in FFXI, only talk about soccer, have zero emotional intelligence, make fun of personal stories, and, when someone brings up science, stare at the "Christ the Redeemer" statue and ask, "My God, how can I have 14,000 posts on this stupid forum and still be a useless idiot?" in Portuguese, always ending up dead last in every damage parse… When I play healer, my party dies 10 times over, I can’t even keep three sad buffs on BRD, and in my 14k posts, I’ve never contributed anything worthwhile. Sorry, I just don't have the brains for anything more (again, in Portuguese).
14k and none of them are parses
[+]
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Seun said: »
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
Seun said: »
I used the word automatic to describe the input broadcasting process, not to relate the Send addon to automation or botting.
Isn't Send software that is broadcasting input across multiple clients? If I am misunderstanding or there is more to it than that, I apologize. If that is what it does then I don't think we need to try and redefine it. IBS isn't new.
Input Broadcasting Software. It says what it does and does what it says. Nobody would ever be confused that input is required from the user.
CrAZYVIC said: »
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
Let me know who win the Karen’s award … the last few pages been nothing but a waste for new players and maybe even an example of “you know what? I don’t need that in my life" good job "veterans”.
Dude, if people were as reasonable and hard-nosed as you, Afania, Dodik, Taint, Saevel, Kylos, and even Maletaru, this forum would be incredible.
Unfortunately, the site doesn’t have moderators, and only "Rocks" comes around to shut down topics when he's fed up with all the garbage.
If we’re going to S.H.I.T. post, let’s at least do it right.
God... I wish I were a Brazilian player so I could be the worst player in FFXI, only talk about soccer, have zero emotional intelligence, make fun of personal stories, and, when someone brings up science, stare at the "Christ the Redeemer" statue and ask, "My God, how can I have 14,000 posts on this stupid forum and still be a useless idiot?" in Portuguese, always ending up dead last in every damage parse… When I play healer, my party dies 10 times over, I can’t even keep three sad buffs on BRD, and in my 14k posts, I’ve never contributed anything worthwhile. Sorry, I just don't have the brains for anything more
-----------------------
Please… If you’re a returning player, your goal should be to be the worst player in FFXI. Look at me—I’m so financially screwed I have to live off welfare programs in Sweden. I can’t even afford my FFXI sub, let alone Wardrobe 3. :( And don’t even mention dual-boxing.
To be like me, equip your NQ Sulevia, take five years to reach M.LV10, use your Kaja Sword, and spend all your time in Bahamut LSes begging for help to kill Bubble Bernie... Because you’re so inept that when you play SCH, you don’t even know how to cast AoE Regen. Oh my God. If you use Windower, it’s unethical; if you parse, it’s unethical; if you use Gearswap, you’re hacking. And when you go to KRT or Bibiki Bay, put blindfolds on.
Imagine, a "Mexican nobody" on the forum living in a third-world country can afford to drop $125 a month on FFXI, while here I am in Sweden, a first-world country, and I can’t even afford Netflix.
Ahh… How wonderful it would be if this forum had moderation, right? Sorry, Rocks, but until there’s better moderation, it’s impossible to have a real debate here.
Nothing happening here is worth moderating. People shared their opinions and it has been mostly amicable. It does keep coming back to the topic, which is great, because most of the time it won't. But I will say to any new or returning players that the conversations had here are not typical of the interactions you are likely to have in-game.
You can disagree in a forum and be amicable about it. Afania and I have done that many times. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on with life. I like seeing different perspectives. It is how we grow.
[+]
No need for moderation when there are maybe 50 active posters and a couple hundred lurkers laughing at us all. A little self-control might not be amiss in repeating the same topics over and over, but then there would be basically nothing left to discuss.
[+]
Fenrir.Niflheim said: »
I like what thorny said on the last page, it really is hard to nail down in perfect unambiguous terms
Bot.
aecho addon is a bot (detects silence, uses echo drops, this is bot, a very simple bot, but a bot)
send addon is not a bot
gearswap is grey area depending on functions. Swapping gear for WS, not a bot. Pre/mid/aftercast on spellcasts, not a bot. Auto-swapping gear when buffs change, bot. Swapping to movement boots when you take a step then swapping back to regular idle, definitely a bot and sus as ***.
superwarp is not a bot. yes, there is a "decision made", but this decision is a failsafe due to SE's previous ineptitude of "server always trust client" and the previous ability to teleport to inaccessible areas prior to the exploit being patched.
a windower script that does lastsynth every 24 seconds 12 times is automation, but not a bot. Its not reacting to any changes, nor can it be stopped. It has one objective: to reach the end of the script. In order for this to be considered a bot, it would repeat the task until a specific goal is reached that has an undetermined usage attempts (ie: stop after X successful synths, stop after X HQ's, stop at X skill) or know to stop when inventory is full or there are insufficient materials to work with.
addons that pick up acheron shields and powders would be bot. They need input, but they also adjust to your inventory and stop when inventory is full.
addons that automatically ws, phantom roll, maneuvers...bots
navigation tool, on its own, is automation. If its designed to simply run from point A to point B in a set path, its automation. If it interacts with things in set places (ie: doors), its still automation. If it starts looking for targets to attack, looking for harvesting points to harvest from, chests/coffers to open, etc, basically things that are not always present in fixed places, it becomes a bot.
fishbot is bot.
lottery addon is a bot. Its a very inconsequential bot, but its still a bot.
treasury is also a bot.
[+]
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Nothing happening here is worth moderating. People shared their opinions and it has been mostly amicable. It does keep coming back to the topic, which is great, because most of the time it won't. But I will say to any new or returning players that the conversations had here are not typical of the interactions you are likely to have in-game.
You can disagree in a forum and be amicable about it. Afania and I have done that many times. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on with life. I like seeing different perspectives. It is how we grow.
You can disagree in a forum and be amicable about it. Afania and I have done that many times. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on with life. I like seeing different perspectives. It is how we grow.
The thing is, dude, we can disagree—I've had my differences with Maletaru too—but always with respect, each defending their point without issue.
One of my friends was banned from the DRK guide around 2017, simply for saying Great Sword > Scythe for pure damage, and suggesting that players use Argosy +1 to mitigate the attack penalty from Resolution. Some people didn’t like it, got upset, and reported him. That was it.
Now these two? They’ve spent 3-4 pages trolling, looking for reactions, making sarcastic comments. They contribute nothing to the discussion, mocking others, and yet the mods don’t do anything to them.
As for the Brazilian guy, I used to read a lot of his stuff—he was one of my favorite posters. I found him fun, cool, and smart, but I think he's spent too much time on X/Twitter doing S.H.I.T posting and got contaminated by that style. Now he’s trying to bring that here, where most of us are 35, 40, 45 years old, and we need a different tone. Mister 14k posts should try to mediate and give thoughtful input like a veteran poster instead of stirring the pot.
And the Swedish guy? He's a troll, plain and simple—he’s made like five posts, and all of them were just to provoke. You can tell he doesn’t have the financial means, so it bothers him that others can afford to spend $100+ a month on a hobby. He even went after people who multi-box.
Nobody said anything to them, so i threw some confetti their way to let them know we can play their game too—but honestly, we don’t, because it’s not worth the effort.
Anyways, take care bro, it was a real pleasure exchanging some posts with you
[+]
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