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Did ff16 flop?
By Afania 2024-05-13 13:00:03
I have been a huge fan of both companies. We all know FF is a much bigger IP than Souls. But Fromsoftware target fans while SE targets Tik Tokers who need to transform into Ifrit 5 mins into the game otherwise they will feel depressed.
FF WAS a larger IP than souls. You're only as funky as your last cut. Bloodborne showed everyone that Souls was getting big enough for something other than direct sequels and pivoting to most platforms with Elden Ring proved it.
More people knew about FF before Elden Ring, but honestly that's no longer one sided and current reputations matter more than past ones.
This is a more accurate statement.
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Posts: 155
By Asura.Sensarity 2024-05-13 13:01:37
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Funny thing is both Elden Ring and 16 went Game of Thrones.
Elden Ring with the author and 16 with the style and setting. Elden Ring didn't really go Game of Thrones at all.
They simply hired GRRM to write the lore, and that was it. They didn't reinvent anything or copy GoT in any way besides that.
XVI on the other hand did everything it could to emulate itself as a "game of thrones style video game" down to the maturity, grittiness, and complex world building (that ultimately meant nothing).
ER stayed true to its roots, XVI did not.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 204
By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-13 13:19:28
Elden Ring didn't stick to its roots. It's open world, easier and generally more colourful.
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By Godfry 2024-05-13 13:41:29
I have been a huge fan of both companies. We all know FF is a much bigger IP than Souls. But Fromsoftware target fans while SE targets Tik Tokers who need to transform into Ifrit 5 mins into the game otherwise they will feel depressed.
FF WAS a larger IP than souls. You're only as funky as your last cut. Bloodborne showed everyone that Souls was getting big enough for something other than direct sequels and pivoting to most platforms with Elden Ring proved it.
More people knew about FF before Elden Ring, but honestly that's no longer one sided and current reputations matter more than past ones.
Yeah, that's what I said in terms of IP. You comparing a game from 20 years ago to a current one had nothing to do my analogy. My analogy was that one company's IP WAS vastly more superior than the other, but one of the companies remained true to its origin while the other went the "new audience", tik tok way.
The grotesque difference between these two companies is that while SE caved, From decided to go even more hardcore towards the fans of the IP. For example, Sekiro is probably SE hardest game. The new audience complained about Elden Ring being too difficult. Instead of adding a easy difficulty to Elden Ring, the DLC is said to have gone the Sekiro way where equipment doesn't make too much of a difference. From went full GIT GOOD mode because they believe that, while this might displease the newcomers, they can always rely on their player base.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 13:42:48
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Elden Ring didn't stick to its roots. It's open world, easier and generally more colourful.
It did... and Elden Ring is souls-like. It's not a Dark Souls game.
Sekiro is souls like, but not a Dark Souls game.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 3389
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-05-13 13:49:00
Every *** action game made in the last 5 years is “souls like”.
Its become a buzzword
By Viciouss 2024-05-13 13:49:42
I have been a huge fan of both companies. We all know FF is a much bigger IP than Souls. But Fromsoftware target fans while SE targets Tik Tokers who need to transform into Ifrit 5 mins into the game otherwise they will feel depressed.
FF WAS a larger IP than souls. You're only as funky as your last cut. Bloodborne showed everyone that Souls was getting big enough for something other than direct sequels and pivoting to most platforms with Elden Ring proved it.
More people knew about FF before Elden Ring, but honestly that's no longer one sided and current reputations matter more than past ones.
Yeah, that's what I said in terms of IP. You comparing a game from 20 years ago to a current one had nothing to do my analogy. My analogy was that one company's IP WAS vastly more superior than the other, but one of the companies remained true to its origin while the other went the "new audience", tik tok way.
The grotesque difference between these two companies is that while SE caved, From decided to go even more hardcore towards the fans of the IP. For example, Sekiro is probably SE hardest game. The new audience complained about Elden Ring being too difficult. Instead of adding a easy difficulty to Elden Ring, the DLC is said to have gone the Sekiro way where equipment doesn't make too much of a difference. From went full GIT GOOD mode because they believe that, while this might displease the newcomers, they can always rely on their player base.
...Elden Ring is the easiest Souls game From has ever made. By making the game easier, they made it more accessible to the public. Which drove sales.
The most difficult content is entirely optional. If you are having trouble with something...just leave. Go do something else, and if you don't ever want to go back to the trouble spot, you don't have to. You can beat the game without breaking a sweat.
If one of these companies went "the tik tok way," it was absolutely FromSoftware.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 13:58:38
The most difficult content is entirely optional. If you are having trouble with something...just leave. Go do something else, and if you don't ever want to go back to the trouble spot, you don't have to. You can beat the game without breaking a sweat.
You are definitely the audience to "How to become OP early in the game" videos.
In the main path of both games, I don't how any boss in DS3 is harder than Godskin duo, Maliketh and Radagon followed by the Elden Beast. From optional bosses Malenia is much more difficult than Midir, Friede and Gael (or at least on the same level).
Of course, if you watch tutorials on how to beat these bosses then all other DS game become a piece of cake, and this goes to Bloodborne as well.
Quote: If one of these companies went "the tik tok way," it was absolutely FromSoftware.
Yeah, that's why they are advertising the DLC as hard as Sekiro, by removing the power-creep from amor and weapon and making it entirely skill-based... because tik toker love a challenge, right? right?
By Viciouss 2024-05-13 14:06:47
The most difficult content is entirely optional. If you are having trouble with something...just leave. Go do something else, and if you don't ever want to go back to the trouble spot, you don't have to. You can beat the game without breaking a sweat.
You are definitely the audience to "How to become OP early in the game" videos.
In the main path of both games, I don't how any boss in DS3 is harder than Godskin duo, Maliketh and Radagon followed by the Elden Beast. From optional bosses Malenia is much more difficult than Midir, Friede and Gael (or at least on the same level).
Of course, if you watch tutorials on how to beat these bosses then all other DS game become a piece of cake, and this goes to Bloodborne as well.
No, I'm not. You're just cherry picking and ignoring basic facts. Elden Ring's accessibility was a main marketing focus point for FromSoftware. What kept people away from Souls games was their difficulty. What brought people to Elden Ring was the open world and the freedom to choose your desired path forward.
Accusing SE of "caving" while lauding FromSoftware for "sticking to its roots" falls apart when applying just a little bit of scrutiny. FromSoftware did not stick to its roots with Elden Ring at all. Both companies tried brand new things.
FF16 marketed itself towards a more adult audience, thus earning an M rating, which combined with the fact it was exclusive to one platform, limited sales. They took the bigger risk. Didn't even come close to caving.
FromSoftware marketed Elden Ring to a wider, more casual audience on multiple platforms. They took a much smaller risk.
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By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:09:44
No, I'm not. You're just cherry picking and ignoring basic facts. Elden Ring's accessibility was a main marketing focus point for FromSoftware. What kept people away from Souls games was their difficulty. What brought people to Elden Ring was the open world and the freedom to choose your desired path forward.
Lmao... yeah, that's why Sekiro and Bloodborne were such a major failure am I right?
Quote: FF16 marketed itself towards a more adult audience, thus earning an M rating, which combined with the fact it was exclusive to one platform, limited sales. They took the bigger risk. Didn't even come close to caving.
I bought PS5 to play Elden Ring. I have PS5 and still didn't touch the edgy DMC game disguised as FF16.
My top five favorite games of all times are FF games and I still play FF11. Bellow you can see the FF that we loved vs the soulless garbage that they put out today.
By Viciouss 2024-05-13 14:11:18
No, I'm not. You're just cherry picking and ignoring basic facts. Elden Ring's accessibility was a main marketing focus point for FromSoftware. What kept people away from Souls games was their difficulty. What brought people to Elden Ring was the open world and the freedom to choose your desired path forward.
Lmao... yeah, that's why Sekiro and Bloodborne were such a major failure am I right?
You have yet to make any kind of a point. Who is even talking about Sekiro and Bloodborne? I get it though, your argument got blown up, so you are trying to move the goalposts.
By Afania 2024-05-13 14:12:48
My analogy was that one company's IP WAS vastly more superior than the other, but one of the companies remained true to its origin while the other went the "new audience", tik tok way.
That doesn't matter anyways. The fact that literally every action game(slightly hyperbole) has to put a "Souls-like" tag to sell the game but not "turn based jrpg" tag shows that Souls-like just have a much bigger target audience than jrpg.(Unless it is pokemon of course)
Persona 5 was the most successful non-pokemon turn based jrpg from the last decade, even then it doesn't sell anywhere close to Elden ring. It doesn't matter if FF stay true to its roots or not, jrpg just have a smaller target audience than souls-like until a JRPG Jesus appears to save the genre from becoming niche.
Comparing Elden ring with FF, or any non-pokemon jrpg just isn't fair. Their target audience size was way different to begin with. I won't be convinced that any company can magically make FF comparable to Elden ring in any way until a turn-based jrpg that sells 20m+ in less than 1 year appears.
By RadialArcana 2024-05-13 14:14:15
>M rating
Cynical marketing ploy, they wanted the M rating to play into the GoT theme. There wasn't any real justification for it.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:17:54
You have yet to make any kind of a point. Who is even talking about Sekiro and Bloodborne? I get it though, your argument got blown up, so you are trying to move the goalposts.
Not my fault if you can't even follow a discussion. Alfania and I were directly comparing IPs, not just Elden Ring vs FF16.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:20:50
Comparing Elden ring with FF, or any non-pokemon jrpg just isn't fair. Their target audience size was way different to begin with. I won't be convinced that any company can magically make FF
I'm comparing a company that remained true to their IP to a company that had trashed their IP by going a different direction. THIS IS A FACT. They brought in Ryota Suzuki from DMC to appeal to a new audience. Where did they get this stupid idea from? Were FF fans dying to have a DMC-like FF? Or they were more likely begging for a new Final Fantasy War of The Lions?
Carbuncle.Nynja
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Posts: 3389
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-05-13 14:23:18
You bought a ps5 to play a game that was released on PC lol
Bismarck.Stephenjd
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 204
By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-13 14:24:06
Calling the most profitable and popular game in the franchise soulless garbage is something.
By RadialArcana 2024-05-13 14:27:46
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Calling the most profitable and popular game in the franchise soulless garbage is something.
The game sold off the brand, in the same way GTA6 will. Even if the game is horses*t it will still sell 20-30m copies day 1.
Mass effect Andromeda sold 5 million copies day 1.
ME4 was a flop even though it sold so many, cause the publisher knew why it sold that many and knew it hurt the brand.
By Afania 2024-05-13 14:28:53
Comparing Elden ring with FF, or any non-pokemon jrpg just isn't fair. Their target audience size was way different to begin with. I won't be convinced that any company can magically make FF
I'm comparing a company that remained true to their IP to a company that had trashed their IP by going a different direction. THIS IS A FACT. They brought in Ryota Suzuki from DMC to appeal to a new audience. Where did they get this stupid idea from? Were FF fans dying to have a DMC-like FF? Or they were more likely begging for a new Final Fantasy War of The Lions?
No, you didn't argue old fans nostalgia. If you did that I would have accepted the argument. It is understandable to get upset because an old IP changed direction.
FROMSOFTWARE announcement of Shadow of the Erdtree generated 10 of millions of views.
This was your post. You directly commented on the popularity of Elden ring using numbers.
Except numbers often have nothing to do with nostalgia feels. It has more to do with target audience size. It doesn't matter if FF makes old fans feel happy or not, that number won't be big if those old fans are not in the majority.
FF has never reached 20m sales within 1 year in the past. Even if 100% of the old fans are very happy with FF16, it still won't reach the popularity of Elden ring, because the target audience size doesn't match to begin with.
If you only comment on nostalgia feels, it would have make more sense than trying to make connections with a number.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:30:08
You bought a ps5 to play a game that was released on PC lol
Yeah. It's allowed where I am from. We can pick the platform we want to game on.
Bismarck.Stephenjd
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 204
By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-13 14:31:48
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Calling the most profitable and popular game in the franchise soulless garbage is something.
The game sold off the brand, in the same way GTA6 will. Even if the game is horses*t it will still sell 20-30m copies day 1.
Mass effect Andromeda sold 5 million copies day 1.
ME4 was a flop even though it sold so many, cause the publisher knew why it sold that many and knew it hurt the brand.
Elden Ring sold off the souls-like brand. Pokemon sells because of its brand, Call of Duty does. All popular IP's do. 11 did, WoW did.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:35:44
No, you didn't argue old fans nostalgia. If you did that I would have accepted the argument. It is understandable to get upset because an old IP changed direction.
I did.. and we have had the same exchange many times before. Even on this exact thread and elsewhere. I have said many times that SE would be much better off by creating new titles and maintaining FF IP closer to what the fans are used to. Innovation is always welcome, but going from FF10 to DMC-style is too far.
This was your post. You directly commented on the popularity of Elden ring using numbers.
You are partially quoting which allows for the interpretation that you want to achieve. The original posts discusses the popularity of two DLCs. The discussion proceeds towards the analogy of one going directly towards what old-school fan wants while the other is going in a different direction.
You will hardly ever come across a Dark Souls fan that's not looking forward to the next From game. But this thread alone is loaded with people that grew up around FF and haven't played the last 5-6 FF titles.
By GetHelpNerd 2024-05-13 14:36:17
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Calling the most profitable and popular game in the franchise soulless garbage is something.
The game sold off the brand, in the same way GTA6 will. Even if the game is horses*t it will still sell 20-30m copies day 1.
Mass effect Andromeda sold 5 million copies day 1.
ME4 was a flop even though it sold so many, cause the publisher knew why it sold that many and knew it hurt the brand.
Elden Ring sold off the souls-like brand. Pokemon sells because of its brand, Call of Duty does. All popular IP's do. 11 did, WoW did.
??? the ***?
and people rightfully critique call of duty for it.
people rightfully critique diablo 4 for it.
this is the worst argument you've come up with yet
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By Viciouss 2024-05-13 14:36:19
Comparing Elden ring with FF, or any non-pokemon jrpg just isn't fair. Their target audience size was way different to begin with. I won't be convinced that any company can magically make FF
I'm comparing a company that remained true to their IP to a company that had trashed their IP by going a different direction. THIS IS A FACT.
Can't be a fact if it isn't true. Capital letters aren't helping you. FromSoftware in no way "stayed true to their IP." It's as if you are selectivly ignoring their entire marketing campaign, just to not make a point. Also, lol at buying a PS5 to play Elden Ring. Literally what.
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Bismarck.Stephenjd
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 204
By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-13 14:39:44
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Calling the most profitable and popular game in the franchise soulless garbage is something.
The game sold off the brand, in the same way GTA6 will. Even if the game is horses*t it will still sell 20-30m copies day 1.
Mass effect Andromeda sold 5 million copies day 1.
ME4 was a flop even though it sold so many, cause the publisher knew why it sold that many and knew it hurt the brand.
Elden Ring sold off the souls-like brand. Pokemon sells because of its brand, Call of Duty does. All popular IP's do. 11 did, WoW did.
??? the ***?
and people rightfully critique call of duty for it.
people rightfully critique diablo 4 for it.
this is the worst argument you've come up with yet
And yet you have no actually rebuttal to it. Call of Duty games do not generally flop do they? Neither do Pokemon games. Now ready the title of the thread and come back to me.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:40:24
Can't be a fact if it isn't true. Capital letters aren't helping you. FromSoftware in no way "stayed true to their IP." It's as if you are selectivly ignoring their entire marketing campaign, just to not make a point. Also, lol at buying a PS5 to play Elden Ring. Literally what.
It's a fact. They intentionally hired DMC's Ryota Suzuki to give the game a new feel.
Doesn't matter how much you want to ignore this: Shadow of the Erdtree is advertising being much more difficult than Elden Ring and making it skill-based like Sekiro. In the interview they even talk about the DLC having the most difficult boss of the entire franchise.
I also have no idea of what you are trying to say by marketing campaign. I have never heard an Elden Ring ad saying "if you like easy games, this game is for you".
The gameplay trailer is 100% true to Dark Souls game fans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Huy2cdih0
By Viciouss 2024-05-13 14:43:08
Innovation is always welcome, but going from FF10 DMC-style is too far.
"Innovation is always welcome as long it caters to MEEEEE."
...Right.
Also, optional DLC that targets a more specific group has nothing to do with the base game. It doesn't change the fact Elden Ring was made for a more casual audience. FF16 and Rebirth did this too, it's just free.
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Bismarck.Stephenjd
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 204
By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-13 14:44:45
Can't be a fact if it isn't true. Capital letters aren't helping you. FromSoftware in no way "stayed true to their IP." It's as if you are selectivly ignoring their entire marketing campaign, just to not make a point. Also, lol at buying a PS5 to play Elden Ring. Literally what.
It's a fact. They intentionally hired DMC's Ryota Suzuki to give the game a new feel.
Doesn't matter how much you want to ignore this: Shadow of the Erdtree is advertising being much more difficult than Elden Ring and making it skill-based like Sekiro. In the interview they even talk about the DLC having the most difficult boss of the entire franchise.
You've just self owned. You're basically admitting the base game is easier then. To appeal to the tiktok masses lmao.
By Godfry 2024-05-13 14:48:42
"Innovation is always welcome as long it caters to MEEEEE."
Yeah... they should cater to me (the people who have been buying their titles for over 25 years). They can introduce riding a horse, an open world environment as long as it feels true to base.
Also, optional DLC that targets a more specific group has nothing to do with the base game. It doesn't change the fact Elden Ring was made for a more casual audience. FF16 and Rebirth did this too, it's just free.
It's a ~$40 dollars DLC that caters to old-school Dark Souls fans. This should be enough evidence to you that From caters to its original audience and that's what make them successful. But I know you would like to keep going. lol
By GetHelpNerd 2024-05-13 14:48:58
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »Calling the most profitable and popular game in the franchise soulless garbage is something.
The game sold off the brand, in the same way GTA6 will. Even if the game is horses*t it will still sell 20-30m copies day 1.
Mass effect Andromeda sold 5 million copies day 1.
ME4 was a flop even though it sold so many, cause the publisher knew why it sold that many and knew it hurt the brand.
Elden Ring sold off the souls-like brand. Pokemon sells because of its brand, Call of Duty does. All popular IP's do. 11 did, WoW did.
??? the ***?
and people rightfully critique call of duty for it.
people rightfully critique diablo 4 for it.
this is the worst argument you've come up with yet
And yet you have no actually rebuttal to it. Call of Duty games do not generally flop do they? Neither do Pokemon games. Now ready the title of the thread and come back to me.
no one is calling blizzard a masterful company for releasing call of duty modern warfare remastered or diablo 4. if they did, these people would be complete morons.
just like only a complete moron would simp SE for ff16/7 remaster.
talking about self owns in your above post, you just completely and totally self owned by comparing to these things. they are not "good" games and no one should claim such.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/s/RaHUHowvkO
I think matusai should be the one to to lead ff17 he is entitled to have it, not only he worked in 11 for 20 years he was a director for crono trigger.
Not to mention he also was moved to 14 to fix the battle for arr!
I don’t understand this stupid mind set by yoshi that it has to be action, look at baldurs gate, ff needs to evolve in the turn based genre, don’t change what is already main to the franchise..
We dont want action rpg
I want to cast haste reflect double magic limit break and nuke stuff!!!!!!!
What makes dragon quest xi good its still a turn based game!!
Square needs to treat ff like dq!
Make a vagrant story 2
Make a new kingdom hearts
Dont add shit to finalfantasy
Satisfy your older fans if you want a new generation of fans, or else they will lose their 30 years of their fanbse, ff was a lifestyle to me do you guys dont remember waiting for a new console to imagine how a new ff will be like in that console?
The sales is bad for 2023-2024 standards alot of the fans are grown up too it should be much higher
https://www.vgchartz.com/game/226241/final-fantasy/
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