Do You Prefer The Current Stat Values?

My feelings on it have evolved over the years. I selfishly defended it when I was one of the few multiboxers around because I didn't really see the problem. I still did alliance content to help my linkshell stay up to date and sat out whatever mules weren't needed at that time. I'm not going to try to defend myself as I'm sure I contributed in some minor way to the influx of multiboxing.

However, I watched players in my LS and the general attitude evolve such that tons of people would rather just multibox then ever group up. I don't think it's been good for the game. The lapse in alliance content after delve was certainly a contributor, but a combination of multiboxers and 6man content focus tore down people's motivation to maintain large linkshells. At the end of delve era, even the smallest population servers had multiple shells with 20 or more up to date players. Now, even Asura has very few that would meet that criteria.

The way I see it, players grouped out of necessity, and that helped develop the social backing for those groups. Without the necessity, they fell apart again. I think 18 man content that is not pickup or multibox friendly would help bring back those kinds of groups again, and I see that as one of the best parts of the game.

I would love to see alliance content and wouldn't mind if there were content which found some way to exclude multi-boxing and/or make it impractical. Unfortunately I think any way you could think of to try to discourage multi-boxing is likely to harm real players and/or be extremely easy to "gamefy" and work the system. Especially with bots like cureplease, ezfarm, auto-cor, auto-geo luas, etc. there's so much automation that you could pretty easily automate at least a couple characters in any content, unless it's extremely difficult.

It could be some buttons, like the NI lamps, that require you to do some amount of thinking, but even then, a single person can the lamp orders and everyone else just has to follow the plan. I really am struggling to come up with a way to solve the multi-box "problem".

In addition though, I think it's a pretty dangerous idea to create content which requires an alliance of active players in today's environment. Sure, you could hope that the new content causes people to re-subscribe and fill the gaps, but if it doesn't then you've just created content that nobody can do because on smaller servers it's a nightmare to try to get 18 people together on a regular basis. It's also going to be hated by the (70%?) huge population of people who multi-box, and they will undoubtedly try to find a way to surreptitiously fit in their mules without telling anyone, because they're used to decades of multi-boxing.

IDK, in an ideal world I would love more alliance content and would love content that encourages you to only play one character at a time. Frankly, that's part of what I enjoy about Sortie & Odyssey. They're difficult enough that it's damn near impossible to multi-box them. I've done some lower-vengeance bosses with two characters but never anything cutting edge, and I've only done a couple Sortie runs with multiple characters and it definitely felt like a noticeable sacrifice in efficiency which I did not like, plus it was stressful AF

Multi-boxing is a symptom not a root cause. Virtually every event requiring combinations of BRD/GEO/WHM/COR made it such that gameplay is far more enjoyable when you can bring your own. The absurd power growth from buff stacking combined with monsters equally absurd stat inflation combined with only six party slots turned gameplay into a race to optimize those slots. It's simply not feasible to bring four DD's, one healer and one support, even though most of the jobs in the game would be classified into the DPS category.

You know rather than multi-boxing BRD, COR, GEO, and WHM you could level those jobs and play them on your main, right?

I guess they could've seen the writing on the wall that nobody likes to play support, but I'm not sure what the solution is there tbh, that exists in like...every online game ever. Maybe what most people would propose is to just "make" the meta be 3 DD, 1 tank, 1 support, 1 healer. Still gonna have those supports/healers be botted though, because nobody wants to play them.

IDK, I thoroughly enjoy WHM, SCH, BRD, COR. GEO is alright but it depends on the content; Odyssey Gaol is a snoozefest on GEO most of the time, but Dynamis [D] is very engaging.

There isnt one, for every 1 player that actually enjoys support roles, theres 10 who hate it, so that 1 person gets stuck on the support role forever and slowly grows to dislike it.

Good group can and will rotate but those can be hard to find, and now that you can automate the majority of the role most will do just that to get around having to do it themselves/burn out their 1 support person.

As long as we're hallucinating about content can we hallucinate up something where different parts of the area look different from other parts of the area?

Apparently everyone's favorite:
Nyzul: A series of random rooms that all look the damn same.

Current endgame:
Sheols: Everything is purple and looks the damn same.
Sortie: Everything is purple and looks the damn same.

Yep the Bard-For-Life scenario since it requires the most investment out of the "must have" support jobs.

In a way I wish SE would nerf haste scaling and lower attack bonus's while also reducing monster HP and defense to a third or less of what it is now. Maybe change how defense down scales as well. Bring everything down a few notches to encourage a more diversified experience instead of mega buff one or two guys and beat the boss to death.

Alliance content can't happen til SE finally decides to merge at least a few servers. And I don't mean Asura, it will do fine as is. Merge the smaller servers together, get rid of at least six, and then bring out some casual alliance content anyone can join. Make it content where everyone needs to be doing tasks simultaneously, to discourage multi-boxing, and also make it like Sortie, so no gil involved.

Could very easily bring back Salvage and Limbus equipment with ilvl stats as sidegrades. Players would love to get that stuff again with proper stats. Just make it super casual friendly, but actually requires players to do stuff, otherwise you will get leechers paying mercs to do the content for them. Limbus and Salvage have many gimmicks they can play with to make botting impossible. Anti-leech, anti-RMT alliance content is what is needed at this point in the game. Mireu in Domain Invasion is a great example of what is possible on a server when players are called to action. Also, don't put it behind a dumb time gate, because flexibility is enjoyable.

it might open up the pool a bit but itd still default to the above. It's not as bad as it used to be at least. BRD/COR are DDs in their own right, WHM has always been a bit of a workhorse, moreso from aby onwards when aoe debuffs were a constant and it wasnt just largely monitoring HP/haste cycle, but SE has tried to bridge that with caress/jse neck and emp head/yagrush. GEO really depends on the content, it relies way too much on its sub to provide a function outside of dropping bubbles and nuking

Glad to see I'm not the only one who isn't a fan of sensory deprivation chambers.

The worst part is I could totally see SE do this cause it's the most lazy "fix" to these problems but have you ever played vs slow aura mobs without a counter?
Reducing players TP gain is a fun killer and lowering their damage takes away the sense of progression, I don't want to go back to waiting several seconds between auto attacks.
I'm a firm believer that devs shouldn't take things away that are already established and loved.

Right now, attack speed and attack multipliers are the biggest DPS boosts, so big that it leads BRD/COR/GEO being required for every event, which when combined with limited party slots leads to multi-boxing and reduced social interactions. Later they balanced boss difficulty around us having those insane DPS multipliers so it's not like a group can chose an "alternate" strategy and still win. The root cause of all this is the inflated DPS boosts from buff / debuff stacking. Remove that and we remove the need for inflated monster stats and buff optimized party configurations. That in turn leads to more relaxed job requirements for six man content. It's not "lazy" but solving the root cause.



Both Salvage and Limbus were alliance content, both could be done with six and salvage kind punished you for having more then six. They totally should redo Limbus with iLevel gear, change the AF upgrades out for some sort of JSE ring or belt, that is twelve zones and two mega boss fights where only one person needs to have the entry items (or KI's). That would be super good for linkshell friends to tag along.

Alliances after the servers are merged

PT1: DD DD WHM BRD COR GEO
PT2: DD DD WHM BRD COR GEO
PT3: DD DD WHM BRD COR RDM

“Problem solved”

Or I could spend my wardrobe space that I pay extra for to play jobs I actually enjoy?

At least you listed SCH later to add a job that gets better as you actually play it.

I think it's sad that they put 2 stances on WHM that you can't /WHM so that it wouldn't get used by other jobs and still only 1 of them ever gets used. Put that job on healbot since that's all people are going to do anyway. Fix them boo boos.

BRD has no offensive JAs so it plays like any other job that is played by people who don't know how to push buttons. Look at that disco ball, get me loot, be chemically dependent me for success.

GEO has JAs and they still don't do anything. It's like they needed 2 adoulin jobs and they really half assed one of them. Bubbles OP makes it gud, right? No reason to come back and adjust the job when it's nerfed into the ground.

COR exists for Samurai Roll. It's really cool that you can play it really well and make a positive impact but you could also probably just be a roll bot and still clear most content so there really isn't a reason to consider the next 4 jobs.

You didn't list BLU, BST, SMN, DNC because even though they are buffers/debuffers, they aren't required for success when BRD, COR, and GEO exist. People wouldn't multi-box hard supports if they didn't play like *** compared to the rest of the jobs in the game(COR somewhat exempt unless all your 6s get followed up by 6s for most of the run and then please let me play anything else). People wouldn't bring hard supports if they weren't statistically better than the other options the game provides.

Didn't do much Delve content I see. There would be a tank party in there. During that era each DD party needed a GEO because Attunement is party only, no with it being nerfed it would be Fury which may not be needed if a tank party GEO stacked Frailty with Dia III. Now with the ML increase RDM's and SCH's can just as easily heal these types of parties. Unfortunately as long as we have the insane haste and attack stacking we do, Bard is still a requirement.

The important part about having 12~18 slots is that you can shove friends into the off party to assist as best as possible. Utility slots don't need mega buffs so you aren't having to saddle them with a bard / cor / geo combo. We aren't forced into maximizing the contribution of every single slot like we are with six.

Homies referencing 2013 delve when everyone was wearing 109-115 equipment.

How long did it take for people to gear up moderately and realize it can be done in a party without needing vex/attunement? The tank party youre referencing is a safety net that would be taken down once the content gimmick is discovered.

Never, we kept using Vex/Attunement until it was nerfed because it provided virtual immunity. And maybe you were using 109 gear, when we did it iLevel didn't exist yet and we were all rocking 99 gear. Then afterwards it was 115 since we had already collected them and upgraded to R15 ASAP.

The gear existed and was unchanged when ilvl was added. Just because it didnt say 106 doesnt mean its lv99.

SE took your safety net away and then you realized it was never needed and it could be done with less people. Thats exactly what I said. Thats how everything goes. Start with the tank, figure out how to phase out the tank and replace with another DD to increase DPS without increasing risk.

Such is the running truth of all FFXI endgame areas.

When game was JP only, endgame was Castle Zvahl demon NMs.
Castle Zvahl is black obsidian castle that all looks the same

During RoZ Sky area, Sky looks like every other Zilart structure pre-Al'Taieu, so all of Sky is ceramic egg with some roots and leaves. At least the outside had the wide open sky for a nice view.

CoP Sea outside was nifty but I mean, it's all still discount Planet Namek. Inside all looked identical, white hallways with occasional breaks from dimensional distortions. Aerns everywhere.

ToAU... probably the worst offender and the true earmark of the trend. Salvage and Nyzul are all just Alzadaal walls and floors non-stop. Assaults are lava cave, green cave, blue cave, and dark cave with water. Einherjar is just in dark cave.

Wings of the Goddess had Walk of Echoes, red sky and black stone paths, and other than that the weird synergy fomor NMs for making the OG weapons that the Blurred Weapons look like, which those NMs were just sorta in the Jeuno area cave dungeons.

Seekers of Arciela's Booty brought in Rakaznar. Which you know all about. Do they really never use inner court for some variety in the events that use Rakaznar?

Omen's all in Raisin Jimmes right?

Anything in other Escha zones is all in black and white?

Ehh... ok you keep having a conversation with yourself, I'll just be over there...

Yeah the overworld in FFXI looks beautiful, especially with AshenbubsHD loaded. The dungeons were kinda meh, well mostly meh. CoP / Apollyon with the empty area theme was just surreal.

Say what you want, doesnt change the fact that every time new content comes out people start with a tank, then as time goes on, it gets phased out.


Sometimes the role of tank is absolutely necessary, and it STILL gets phased out for a support to play that role (usually rdm).
I wouldnt be surprised if your Sortie group doesnt use a tank anymore either.

XP parties used to need a tank. Then people figured out they didnt have to fight IT+++ and got another DD.
Kings needed a tank, then people started using BRD/NIN and RDM/NIN (both got nerfed)
Tanks were brought to Salvage, then people realized dropping party size and using MNK's as a tank was the way to go.

People will always find a way to optimize things to achieve greater results.

OK let's reverse this then: I enjoy BRD, but I "have to have" a DRK in my party in order to do enough damage to kill bosses. I insist that instead of making me multi-box so I can have a DRK around to do damage for me, SE should change the game to make BRD do better damage, so DRK aren't necessary anymore. I'm paying for wardrobe space therefore I'm entitled to play the game any way I want, and they should re-balance it around the job I like to play. It's not fair that other jobs are required to play this MMO, I just want to play mine! And if you don't give me what I want, I'm taking my ball subscription and going home!

If you (plural) want to play a game where you can play nothing but DPS and be welcomed with open arms to all groups, I'm sorry but cooperative pve online video games are not going to be a good time for you, because the depth of mechanics brought on by everyone in the group being a DPS with no healers, tanks, or supports is incredibly shallow. I guess maybe try Destiny 2? Might be more your style

FTFY

Not arguing against it, FFXI always got low effort zones for instanced content. Heck most zones are on the low effort side especially when you compare it to single player final fantasies of the PS2, just think about all the connection tunnels that are basically just a bunch of tubes, there are of course some exceptions. I'm pretty sure if it ever was brought up as a complaint to the devs it probably was immediately retaliated with a "PS2 limitations"

However, PS2 limitations are a thing of the past and just because something was always shitty shouldn't mean it has to stay that way.

The chaos/bahamut final battle would have been a perfect opportunity to reuse rivern site A and B with minor tweaks.

In this example you're pretending it's just his opinion that DDs are a preference among players but there wouldn't be 18 of them if this wasn't a fact.

Guild Wars is a good example of a MMO that put a little less emphasis on supports and while that games focus was more on PVP I would say it's far from a shallow experience.

It's a very interesting looking zone (also pretty much all the same color) that, based on the performance of just trying to zone from it into Sinister Reign, is hosted entirely on a single PS2 held together with popsicle sticks and rubber bands that was plugged in and then tucked away into a closet somewhere in Shinjuku and forgotten about. Trying to do anything else with that zone would probably cause the entire game to shut down.

PS2 would make sense... an Emotion Engine would explain the randomness that is SR entry!

Oh no this isn't the entitlement line of thinking. You literally asked why people don't waste wardrobe space on their mains and instead make an entirely different character to house these jobs. And my answer is we put our jobs that play like crap on a different character because all they are mechanically good for is providing buffs. They are sans other mechanics.

If you think DRK falls into the same category and it's your multibox then you're doing the same thing.

Most people put their hard supports on their second character. That means that the consensus is that support jobs are boring to most people that play. SE could remedy this by making their buffs less over powered and give them some interesting JA and traits so other people would play them. But you might see BRD and GEO outright abandoned in favor of the already well put together jobs like BST, SMN, BLU, and DNC. See WHM for example of what happens when you make a job 100% a chore and then foolishly give RDM and SCH Curaga 3 access and PLD Majesty.

I literally feel bad for people that main BRD, GEO, or WHM because you accepted a job that would get you success at the expense of not being abls to play the same game as the rest of us. You've enamored yourself with the idea that playing a worse job for success is fun.

I don't think SE can make BRD, GEO, or WHM appealing to the current playerbase. They already have much more varied and interesting gameplay than most DPS in most content. It almost seems to me that people only find jobs with high WS numbers or high overall parses to be the most interesting jobs. Plenty of people 'love' the current flavor of the month DPS, even when it's a job with little player interaction like MNK. What's the difference between a melee BRD and a MNK exactly..? Just the numbers showing up on the screen.

You know, I never actually thought about this until you wrote it here. Wtf se


Idk about that brother bear. Game is more pve leaning than anything these days and you want some mix of quickness dps/heals and alacrity dps/heals for strikes, fractals, raids, dragon’s end, etc.