|
Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Bahamut.Forutegsx 2023-08-02 23:47:54
We killed enraged Aminon... and didn't get a Mesosiderite. It really isn't 100%, and you need 4 of them.
The kill took us most of the run, with a specialized setup - we went straight to Aminon, and killed him with 16 minutes remaining. We're a bit hesitant to share the full strategy right now in a writeup in case SE hits it with the nerf bat in September (seeing as the current enraged AI is pretty much a direct counter to the old strategy), but it's a far more difficult strategy to execute than before. If they don't change Meso to 100% drop rate, and/or if the 25% DT isn't on the current version (we can likely check this with Meteor later), the majority of groups are going to be walled out.
We will definitely make the full strategy public after verifying it still works after the September update, if not much sooner. We just really don't want SE to nerf this one too, because this strategy is already really stupid and any subsequent ones would likely be even worse/more exclusive.
The above bolded part is so true.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1716
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-02 23:48:04
I’m honestly in awe of your team’s ability to think up and execute these strats. I wouldn’t even know where to begin.
[+]
Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-02 23:48:22
Sounds like Kaustra
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2017
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-02 23:52:51
Can't Kaustra for 44 minutes straight
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19613
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-02 23:53:14
Very much doubt it's anything remotely as simple as Kaustra. Kaustra is already an important element of normal Aminon clears and it does 20%ish of its health at best.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1716
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-02 23:55:16
Valefor.Prothescar said: »I'd argue that if your group took nearly an hour to kill it, most groups are already walled out. Kind of insane.
Our first regular aminon took 40 minutes (I’m not in mischief’s group). Now we kill it in 11-15.
I’m sure as they get better that time can be improved upon
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13624
By Bahamut.Ravael 2023-08-02 23:55:46
That was in the old strat!
[+]
Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-03 00:02:25
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Can't Kaustra for 44 minutes straight
3 scholars and 2 cors for (4-8)wild cards, 2 cutting cards, you can (or close I don't know the exact duration)
And, it would be really stupid.
By K123 2023-08-03 05:55:20
Valefor.Prothescar said: »I'd argue that if your group took nearly an hour to kill it, most groups are already walled out. Kind of insane. Everything takes ages the first time and is exclusive to the best groups until others get used to the strategy and Mlevel up and gear up good enough. This is a good part of FFXI in recent years.
I remember when melee pug could only do A+E, then A+C+E+G and now A+B+C+E+F+G or A+B+D+E+F+H is more possible and common.
People shout for manaburn and melee burn 8 bosses on Asura but these are mostly bought accounts and probably delusional people.
[+]
Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1225
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-08-03 07:02:00
Bahamut.Forutegsx said: »
We killed enraged Aminon... and didn't get a Mesosiderite. It really isn't 100%, and you need 4 of them.
The kill took us most of the run, with a specialized setup - we went straight to Aminon, and killed him with 16 minutes remaining. We're a bit hesitant to share the full strategy right now in a writeup in case SE hits it with the nerf bat in September (seeing as the current enraged AI is pretty much a direct counter to the old strategy), but it's a far more difficult strategy to execute than before. If they don't change Meso to 100% drop rate, and/or if the 25% DT isn't on the current version (we can likely check this with Meteor later), the majority of groups are going to be walled out.
We will definitely make the full strategy public after verifying it still works after the September update, if not much sooner. We just really don't want SE to nerf this one too, because this strategy is already really stupid and any subsequent ones would likely be even worse/more exclusive.
The above bolded part is so true.
Why you no bring THF for TH!? You have another 15 minutes to waste by un-optimizing your niche setup!
Please don't take this seriously and congrats on your win
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9815
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-03 08:27:02
Why you no bring THF for TH!? You have another 15 minutes to waste by un-optimizing your niche setup!
Please don't take this seriously and congrats on your win
Lol, well folks can get up to TH4 without a thief or ranger, that alone is a noticeable increase in non-coffer drops.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2017
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-03 08:34:28
Lol, well folks can get up to TH4 without a thief or ranger, that alone is a noticeable increase in non-coffer drops.
Like...fenrites?
[+]
By Pantafernando 2023-08-03 09:28:04
Crests too
By Dodik 2023-08-03 09:34:21
Does TH even do anything to non-treasure pool personal drops?
By drakefs 2023-08-03 11:09:13
Are the -drites even considered a personal drop as, when they drop, they drop for everyone in the party that has the requirement for said drop?
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9815
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-03 11:52:10
Does TH even do anything to non-treasure pool personal drops?
Yes, TH increases the drop slots from bosses, it's very noticeable. It wont' do anything for objective chest/coffers though. All the drop system is doing is cloning the drop into everyone who qualifies for it inventory.
[+]
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 81
By Bahamut.Boposhopo 2023-08-03 11:56:50
Are the -drites even considered a personal drop as, when they drop, they drop for everyone in the party that has the requirement for said drop?
Yes, if it drops for 1 person it drops for everyone.
By Taint 2023-08-03 12:02:45
Does TH even do anything to non-treasure pool personal drops?
Yes, TH increases the drop slots from bosses, it's very noticeable. It wont' do anything for objective chest/coffers though. All the drop system is doing is cloning the drop into everyone who qualifies for it inventory.
I agree very noticeable difference.
By Pantafernando 2023-08-03 12:11:24
But noticeable enough to justify have a THF instead of only TH4?
Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-03 12:20:23
Define "noticeable"
.01 to .02 is infact double!
On paper doubling the drop rate seems incredible. Except 2*0=0
Or, Instead of 1000 tries, it "only" takes 500. Perspective.
By Meeble 2023-08-03 13:23:38
By Lili 2023-08-03 13:50:19
Quote: this strategy is already really stupid
Ok but now I want to guess it
Geo-Poison + SV Requiem and kite for 45min?
[+]
By SimonSes 2023-08-03 14:20:18
Quote: this strategy is already really stupid
Ok but now I want to guess it
Geo-Poison + SV Requiem and kite for 45min? You would need 5500 damage per tic to do like 5M in 45min :)
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9815
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-03 15:00:23
But noticeable enough to justify have a THF instead of only TH4?
We're talking TH0 to TH4 or possibly TH6 (bounty shot), highly doubt bringing a THF is something they want to do, unless stealing hate is a desired outcome? Maybe make the THF the sacrificial lamb for bane :D
By Pantafernando 2023-08-03 15:34:33
Quote: this strategy is already really stupid
Ok but now I want to guess it
Geo-Poison + SV Requiem and kite for 45min?
PLDx5 BRD spamming atonement
Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2881
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-08-03 16:25:37
GEO COR COR COR COR PLD
elemental shot / leaden spam lol
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2023-08-03 19:41:04
Bahamut.Forutegsx said: »
We killed enraged Aminon... and didn't get a Mesosiderite. It really isn't 100%, and you need 4 of them.
The kill took us most of the run, with a specialized setup - we went straight to Aminon, and killed him with 16 minutes remaining. We're a bit hesitant to share the full strategy right now in a writeup in case SE hits it with the nerf bat in September (seeing as the current enraged AI is pretty much a direct counter to the old strategy), but it's a far more difficult strategy to execute than before. If they don't change Meso to 100% drop rate, and/or if the 25% DT isn't on the current version (we can likely check this with Meteor later), the majority of groups are going to be walled out.
We will definitely make the full strategy public after verifying it still works after the September update, if not much sooner. We just really don't want SE to nerf this one too, because this strategy is already really stupid and any subsequent ones would likely be even worse/more exclusive.
The above bolded part is so true.
How stupid are we talking? Humor me.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13624
By Bahamut.Ravael 2023-08-03 21:32:18
Bahamut.Forutegsx said: »
We killed enraged Aminon... and didn't get a Mesosiderite. It really isn't 100%, and you need 4 of them.
The kill took us most of the run, with a specialized setup - we went straight to Aminon, and killed him with 16 minutes remaining. We're a bit hesitant to share the full strategy right now in a writeup in case SE hits it with the nerf bat in September (seeing as the current enraged AI is pretty much a direct counter to the old strategy), but it's a far more difficult strategy to execute than before. If they don't change Meso to 100% drop rate, and/or if the 25% DT isn't on the current version (we can likely check this with Meteor later), the majority of groups are going to be walled out.
We will definitely make the full strategy public after verifying it still works after the September update, if not much sooner. We just really don't want SE to nerf this one too, because this strategy is already really stupid and any subsequent ones would likely be even worse/more exclusive.
The above bolded part is so true.
Why you no bring THF for TH!? You have another 15 minutes to waste by un-optimizing your niche setup!
Please don't take this seriously and congrats on your win
Thanks! And we were kicking ourselves for not tagging TH4 on Aminon before the kill. Whether or not it actually helps that specific drop is unknown, but there's no reason to not try.
By Hopalong 2023-08-03 21:33:51
When .05% or less of the player population are completing enraged Aminon kills, it better be 110% drop.
By Pantafernando 2023-08-04 03:04:44
there's no reason to not try.
You need to kill it without TH 1000 times then again more 1000 times with TH so we can conclude if we need to bother using TH gear or no
EDIT: Most of the information in this thread is now outdated, as the EFGH boss enrages have been removed and Aminon is now a toggle. I'm leaving it up so people can see what happened, though.
So, I posted yesterday in the Sortie main thread about how some of the basement bosses had changed AI after acquiring a Stage 4 Prime Weapon. We went in again tonight to test the rest of them, and...well...this is bad. It's bad enough that I felt it justified its own thread so more people can see it.
TL;DR Do not upgrade your Stage 4 Prime Weapon until you are finished with acquiring Gallimaufry, or be prepared to tank the Galli rates for you and any group you join as soon as you get it.
First off, a few commonalities - despite the basement bosses getting harder, the rewards are completely unchanged. 10k Gallimaufry per boss, no guaranteed Case+1, no Mesosiderite (this is probably luck based). Second, actually equipping the Prime Weapon is irrelevant, the bosses are harder if anyone has the Stage 4 anywhere in their inventory. It might be the case that it only looks at the person entering Sortie to determine the AI (both times our party leader had a Stage 4), but that's unlikely. Finally, the base stats of each enemy seem unchanged, it's only their AI that gets altered.
Now, on to the specific bosses. We have recordings of all of the new enrage mechanics, in case anyone's skeptical about all of this. There may be other changes, but these are the ones we've seen. This is all mage strategy, too, so YMMV if you use melee strategy.
EDIT 7/15: Updated information on new mechanics based on more runs.
Dhartok - Uses Cesspool at somewhere between 50-65% HP. No other changes.
Gartell - Enters double hands mode at 65~66% and 30~33% HP, and stays in it for about 3 minutes each time. Bind works from a RDM fairly easily in this mode, but all damage gets tanked and his damage output skyrockets, so it's basically a forced staring contest eating your time while waiting. Gravity seems to work once, then resists badly. We don't know how to break double hands mode other than waiting.
Triboulex - Uses Setting the Stage at around 75% HP, and more times at lower %s. You can still avoid Setting the Stage going off by kiting him. There might be a Skillchain mechanic that also triggers it based off of previous runs, but it's consistently gone off at 75% HP so save yourself the trouble and just Gravity kite him.
Aita - Uses Vivisection at around 65~66% HP, and again at around 32~33% HP. These uses reset the 3 minute timer. There seems to be a mechanic to lower its damage based on repeatedly hitting him with the element he is weak to, but we don't fully understand it yet.
And last, and certainly worst...
Aminon - 10 seconds after using Bane of Tartarus, Aminon will now instantly use Incessant Void again, regardless of TP. After upgrading to Stage 4, the Absorb-TP strategy is IMPOSSIBLE. Anyone who tried to fight this thing pre-Absorb strategy knows that it's an absolute disaster of a fight, so Aminon basically doesn't exist for our group anymore.
I'm honestly speechless. The fact that the bosses are this much worse for bullshit reasons, there's seemingly no way to opt out of it after upgrading a weapon, there are no extra rewards beyond a worthless -drite we haven't even seen yet, and there was ZERO indication that this would happen prior to upgrading?! There wasn't even a chat message or any visual indication the bosses are buffed until our group got blindsided by Vivisection at 70%!
The worst part, though? Not everyone in our group even HAS a Stage 4 Prime Weapon! So, unless it only counts the person who enters the group (which, in that case...why?!), that means that if you upgrade to Stage 4, you're destroying the Gallimaufry potential of ANY group you join! Truly, this is one of the most severe case of punishing the player for upgrading an item I've ever seen.
That's why I'm making this a separate topic I guess - making sure as many people see this as possible. Our group was the first to upgrade to Stage 4, and we're paying the price for it now. Spread the word: either keep your Prime Weapons at Stage 3 (and thus be unable to use their WS outside of Sortie), or tank your Gallimaufry rate. What a fun choice that is......
|
|