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Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
 Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9817
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-02 08:12:22
Valefor.Prothescar said: »This is a amicable solution. Hopefully meso is 100% from turbo aminon but otherwise good changes. Being able to choose between normal and hard is nice.
People can now use their Stage 4 weapons without fear of blowing everyone else up. It may turn into an Omen situation for those making Stage 5, one run to get the entry items, then another to fight the uber boss for Meso's.
Now to see if Chief and Co can figure out a viable strat for enraged uber boss, we got an hour to fight him anyway.
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By K123 2023-08-02 11:16:03
I think the one thing they could do to make this content less shitty, for those that want to make more than 1 weapon, is to drop the galli requirements after your first weapon to something like 400k, 1m, 2m. SE always banged on about how the selling point of FFXI is you can be any job on one char but the brutal near 9m galli per weapon and the boring grind will mean people only ever make one at that cost.
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By Mrxi 2023-08-02 11:31:20
I think the one thing they could do to make this content less shitty, for those that want to make more than 1 weapon, is to drop the galli requirements after your first weapon to something like 400k, 1m, 2m. SE always banged on about how the selling point of FFXI is you can be any job on one char but the brutal near 9m galli per weapon and the boring grind will mean people only ever make one at that cost. You make it sound like you need the prime to play the job but I would have to agree with the rest, once you build one should unlock them all like ergon then trade some currency.
By SimonSes 2023-08-02 11:55:11
I think the one thing they could do to make this content less shitty, for those that want to make more than 1 weapon, is to drop the galli requirements after your first weapon to something like 400k, 1m, 2m. SE always banged on about how the selling point of FFXI is you can be any job on one char but the brutal near 9m galli per weapon and the boring grind will mean people only ever make one at that cost.
I doubt galli would change. This would *** up people who do few at once and you would have another rage.
Now they could maybe add Meso to drop like candy from all bosses if you finish stage 5, so you would need to fight Enraged Aminon several times for only one stage 5.
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Valefor.Philemon
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 406
By Valefor.Philemon 2023-08-02 12:41:21
Personally idk why people are so hard set on making stage 5 tbh, stage 4 already dumps on just about anything else in the game. I finish my stage 4 in a couple weeks and will gladly walk away and call it there. Not defending SE in any way, but it's also not set in stone you NEED to go all the way. I view a stage 5 Prime weapon as sort of a career capper. But for sure you're right, the sensible route is to build a handful of stage 4 weapons.
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 152
By Asura.Sensarity 2023-08-02 12:44:15
Personally idk why people are so hard set on making stage 5 tbh, stage 4 already dumps on just about anything else in the game. I finish my stage 4 in a couple weeks and will gladly walk away and call it there. Not defending SE in any way, but it's also not set in stone you NEED to go all the way. Because this game is provably full of people who would do any amount of grind for +1 STR.
By Seun 2023-08-02 12:53:46
5 Psyche/month RoE still gatekeeping.
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By SimonSes 2023-08-02 12:57:25
Personally idk why people are so hard set on making stage 5 tbh, stage 4 already dumps on just about anything else in the game. I finish my stage 4 in a couple weeks and will gladly walk away and call it there. Not defending SE in any way, but it's also not set in stone you NEED to go all the way. Because this game is provably full of people who would do any amount of grind for +1 STR.
Stage 4 gets like 30% chance for double damage proc and pdl increase. We have no idea what stage 5 will give, but it will most likely be more than "+1str". Also glow.
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By Hopalong 2023-08-02 13:07:07
Quote: Materials needed to upgrade Prime Weapons will have a chance to drop when he is defeated.
So reading between the lines they messed up and they forgot to add it in before which is why Mischief et al never saw a drop?
By SimonSes 2023-08-02 13:13:17
Quote: Materials needed to upgrade Prime Weapons will have a chance to drop when he is defeated.
So reading between the lines they messed up and they forgot to add it in before which is why Mischief et al never saw a drop?
I think you misunderstood. Stones for stage 5 are from enraged Aminon, which none killed yet and they will stay the same after September patch. They just specified it in the notes to describe the difference between easy and hard mode option they are adding, so you can make conscious choice. In current form you have no choice at all, so they didn't need to specify difference.
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By Hopalong 2023-08-02 13:15:36
Gotcha.
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Bahamut.Forutegsx 2023-08-02 13:25:58
Valefor.Prothescar said: »This is a amicable solution. Hopefully meso is 100% from turbo aminon but otherwise good changes. Being able to choose between normal and hard is nice.
People can now use their Stage 4 weapons without fear of blowing everyone else up. It may turn into an Omen situation for those making Stage 5, one run to get the entry items, then another to fight the uber boss for Meso's.
Now to see if Chief and Co can figure out a viable strat for enraged uber boss, we got an hour to fight him anyway.
Oh we've beat Aminon a few times already, but the secret sauce isn't ready for release yet.
And by isn't ready I mean I'm just talking ***and making stuff up. We haven't killed it just yet, we do have some interesting theories we're going to test but it's gonna be a ***show if we can't get everybody meso's before the update lol
I am a little distraught that they're nerfing the bosses but it's understandable to be honest. The prospect of completely nerfing a group because of a single stage 4 was really rough if you did nothing but pick up groups.
All good things must come to an end I suppose.
By zixxer 2023-08-02 13:48:36
I think SE should consider adding "waypoints" in Sortie. At this point I've had some nightmares running around a purple maze.
Nyame, purple. Prime weapons, purple. Odyssey, purple. Bumba... you guessed it!
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Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9817
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-02 13:51:35
Personally idk why people are so hard set on making stage 5 tbh, stage 4 already dumps on just about anything else in the game. I finish my stage 4 in a couple weeks and will gladly walk away and call it there. Not defending SE in any way, but it's also not set in stone you NEED to go all the way. Because this game is provably full of people who would do any amount of grind for +1 STR.
Only if it's Gold Box and super duper rare.
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Shiva.Liam
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 123
By Shiva.Liam 2023-08-02 14:10:10
I think SE should consider adding "waypoints" in Sortie. At this point I've had some nightmares running around a purple maze.
I was thinking something similar yesterday, would be awesome if you could head back to the starting device from a boss tele once its been killed on the upper floor. running there at least involves farming KIs and popping chests, running back is just running.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2023-08-02 14:10:36
That was fast. The tried and true method for getting things adjusted in the game:
Be Japanese
Cause a complete ***storm on the OF (on the JP side)
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9817
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-02 14:20:44
That was fast. The tried and true method for getting things adjusted in the game:
Be Japanese
Cause a complete ***storm on the OF (on the JP side)
Japanese culture is super polite, even if someone hates your guts they'll be polite when dealing with you. Anything that angers that many players and has them make those kinds of comments is going to get developer attention.
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Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1716
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-02 14:24:36
5 Psyche/month RoE still gatekeeping.
That is a gate we already were given the key to before knowing it was even needed. Until there's a consistent and reliable way to farm mesos, they remain the true final gate.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2890
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-08-02 14:43:10
I think SE should consider adding "waypoints" in Sortie. At this point I've had some nightmares running around a purple maze.
Nyame, purple. Prime weapons, purple. Odyssey, purple. Bumba... you guessed it! That would allow people to farm Galli even faster, unacceptable.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 313
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-08-02 15:59:26
Japanese culture is super polite, even if someone hates your guts they'll be polite when dealing with you. Anything that angers that many players and has them make those kinds of comments is going to get developer attention.
You obviously have never posted in a JP forum.
They are rude, arrogant, and condescending to anyone who doesn't speak perfect Japanese.
They make the NA forum look like an episode of "Joy of Painting".
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Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 313
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-08-02 16:05:21
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »5 Psyche/month RoE still gatekeeping.
That is a gate we already were given the key to before knowing it was even needed. Until there's a consistent and reliable way to farm mesos, they remain the true final gate.
They explain the mechanic in detail now:
Aminon
Dealing damage multiple times with an elemental weakness that corresponding to his special attack when his earrings glow will cause a Zisurru to vanish.
If you are able to properly manage that number of Zisurru, you will be able to delay his use of Bane of Tartarus. Maintaining this state will prove key to victory.
Everyone was trying to skirt the mechanic with TP draining because they didn't understand it and this was their way of "patching it".
They spell it out now so we'll see.
By drakefs 2023-08-02 16:06:52
It may turn into an Omen situation for those making Stage 5, one run to get the entry items, then another to fight the uber boss for Meso's.
Maybe I misunderstood Fujito's changes to Sortie but it looked like basement bosses will not have a hard mode after the changes and only Aminon will (which looks to be selected when you enter his room).
By Dodik 2023-08-02 16:10:56
Maybe I misunderstood Fujito's changes to Sortie but it looked like basement bosses will not have a hard mode after the changes and only Aminon will (which looks to be selected when you enter his room).
Yes, but the connotation is that you will not have time to do an 8 boss run + Aminon in the same 1hr so would have to dedicate a run solely to Aminon to have time to kill him in enraged mode.
Since a group that can tackle enraged Aminon can most likely do 8 bosses at normal difficulty.
Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1229
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-08-02 16:16:22
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »Japanese culture is super polite, even if someone hates your guts they'll be polite when dealing with you. Anything that angers that many players and has them make those kinds of comments is going to get developer attention.
You obviously have never posted in a JP forum.
They are rude, arrogant, and condescending to anyone who doesn't speak perfect Japanese.
They make the NA forum look like an episode of "Joy of Painting".
Yeah no duh because they allow that on the JP side. The NA side is tame because it's been heavily censored with bans.
Also the devs don't read the NA side. It's just the moderators who occasionally used to ask questions on our behalf.
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Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19614
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-02 16:20:52
Getting an Aminon pop and then doing Aminon on the next run is a completely normal thing to do. Let's not pretend like there's more than 1 or 2 groups doing 8+Aminon as it is
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13624
By Bahamut.Ravael 2023-08-02 20:54:16
Maybe I misunderstood Fujito's changes to Sortie but it looked like basement bosses will not have a hard mode after the changes and only Aminon will (which looks to be selected when you enter his room).
Yes, but the connotation is that you will not have time to do an 8 boss run + Aminon in the same 1hr so would have to dedicate a run solely to Aminon to have time to kill him in enraged mode.
Since a group that can tackle enraged Aminon can most likely do 8 bosses at normal difficulty.
We have done 8/8 bosses at the increased difficulty and haven't put a dent in enraged Aminon. The "intended" strategy is beyond ridiculous, so it will likely require some creative shenanigans to take down the stupid thing.
Edit: I spoke too soon! Mischief provided creative enough shenanigans and it worked.
Bahamut.Mischief
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 55
By Bahamut.Mischief 2023-08-02 23:41:05
We killed enraged Aminon... and didn't get a Mesosiderite. It really isn't 100%, and you need 4 of them.
The kill took us most of the run, with a specialized setup - we went straight to Aminon, and killed him with 16 minutes remaining. We're a bit hesitant to share the full strategy right now in a writeup in case SE hits it with the nerf bat in September (seeing as the current enraged AI is pretty much a direct counter to the old strategy), but it's a far more difficult strategy to execute than before. If they don't change Meso to 100% drop rate, and/or if the 25% DT isn't on the current version (we can likely check this with Meteor later), the majority of groups are going to be walled out.
We will definitely make the full strategy public after verifying it still works after the September update, if not much sooner. We just really don't want SE to nerf this one too, because this strategy is already really stupid and any subsequent ones would likely be even worse/more exclusive.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19614
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-02 23:46:17
I'd argue that if your group took nearly an hour to kill it, most groups are already walled out. Kind of insane.
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EDIT: Most of the information in this thread is now outdated, as the EFGH boss enrages have been removed and Aminon is now a toggle. I'm leaving it up so people can see what happened, though.
So, I posted yesterday in the Sortie main thread about how some of the basement bosses had changed AI after acquiring a Stage 4 Prime Weapon. We went in again tonight to test the rest of them, and...well...this is bad. It's bad enough that I felt it justified its own thread so more people can see it.
TL;DR Do not upgrade your Stage 4 Prime Weapon until you are finished with acquiring Gallimaufry, or be prepared to tank the Galli rates for you and any group you join as soon as you get it.
First off, a few commonalities - despite the basement bosses getting harder, the rewards are completely unchanged. 10k Gallimaufry per boss, no guaranteed Case+1, no Mesosiderite (this is probably luck based). Second, actually equipping the Prime Weapon is irrelevant, the bosses are harder if anyone has the Stage 4 anywhere in their inventory. It might be the case that it only looks at the person entering Sortie to determine the AI (both times our party leader had a Stage 4), but that's unlikely. Finally, the base stats of each enemy seem unchanged, it's only their AI that gets altered.
Now, on to the specific bosses. We have recordings of all of the new enrage mechanics, in case anyone's skeptical about all of this. There may be other changes, but these are the ones we've seen. This is all mage strategy, too, so YMMV if you use melee strategy.
EDIT 7/15: Updated information on new mechanics based on more runs.
Dhartok - Uses Cesspool at somewhere between 50-65% HP. No other changes.
Gartell - Enters double hands mode at 65~66% and 30~33% HP, and stays in it for about 3 minutes each time. Bind works from a RDM fairly easily in this mode, but all damage gets tanked and his damage output skyrockets, so it's basically a forced staring contest eating your time while waiting. Gravity seems to work once, then resists badly. We don't know how to break double hands mode other than waiting.
Triboulex - Uses Setting the Stage at around 75% HP, and more times at lower %s. You can still avoid Setting the Stage going off by kiting him. There might be a Skillchain mechanic that also triggers it based off of previous runs, but it's consistently gone off at 75% HP so save yourself the trouble and just Gravity kite him.
Aita - Uses Vivisection at around 65~66% HP, and again at around 32~33% HP. These uses reset the 3 minute timer. There seems to be a mechanic to lower its damage based on repeatedly hitting him with the element he is weak to, but we don't fully understand it yet.
And last, and certainly worst...
Aminon - 10 seconds after using Bane of Tartarus, Aminon will now instantly use Incessant Void again, regardless of TP. After upgrading to Stage 4, the Absorb-TP strategy is IMPOSSIBLE. Anyone who tried to fight this thing pre-Absorb strategy knows that it's an absolute disaster of a fight, so Aminon basically doesn't exist for our group anymore.
I'm honestly speechless. The fact that the bosses are this much worse for bullshit reasons, there's seemingly no way to opt out of it after upgrading a weapon, there are no extra rewards beyond a worthless -drite we haven't even seen yet, and there was ZERO indication that this would happen prior to upgrading?! There wasn't even a chat message or any visual indication the bosses are buffed until our group got blindsided by Vivisection at 70%!
The worst part, though? Not everyone in our group even HAS a Stage 4 Prime Weapon! So, unless it only counts the person who enters the group (which, in that case...why?!), that means that if you upgrade to Stage 4, you're destroying the Gallimaufry potential of ANY group you join! Truly, this is one of the most severe case of punishing the player for upgrading an item I've ever seen.
That's why I'm making this a separate topic I guess - making sure as many people see this as possible. Our group was the first to upgrade to Stage 4, and we're paying the price for it now. Spread the word: either keep your Prime Weapons at Stage 3 (and thus be unable to use their WS outside of Sortie), or tank your Gallimaufry rate. What a fun choice that is......
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