Meathead DDs Of FFXI, Please Help Me Understand...

I play strictly DD's on my main because that's what I find fun, but I sub in my support alt to content when friends need it.

It really all boils down to the individual mentality of the player and what they're willing to put in. I've met folks that gear every role and aren't good at any of them, because they just get the gear without understanding the "why". What good is a GEO that doesn't know when to adapt bubbles to a scenario or to blast one for MP for the group on the fly, even if they have Idris and all the works?

What good is an RDM that spends an entire sortie run re-upping Regen 2, protect 3, shell 2 when there's a scholar giving better versions of each, and somehow can't land gravity even with a croc?

Like it was mentioned earlier, the problem is absolutely more pronounced with DDs because they're the majority of the job spread, but let's not pretend that a bad DD will equate to a good support.

Spread and versatility only matter insofar as people understand what they're playing, and oftentimes if they don't understand one thing, they likely don't understand the others.

One of the best (and worst) decisions I ever made was giving my character the option to be a tank/support/DD/healer.

Understanding the full spectrum should be a goal for everyone with this being one of the easiest ways to gain that insight.

The gripes aren't just DD. Without nit-picks there are some real "why?" moments across the field.

If anything, the big thing that will bother me is people who don't ask questions or speak up if they aren't familiar with something. If I'm patient enough I don't mind explaining. At the worst just tell you "This is an ABCDEFGH group. We need proficiency for this to work."

I think the community we built is to blame mostly. {Veteran} is such a toxic word.

Just to clarify an earlier comment of mine, you absolutely can fight weakened, but only if you know what you are doing and it won't become a detriment to the party. You need a good -DT set and preferably protect/shell and some buffs. Of course, getting Reraise back up is the priority.

If the enemy is at 1% and needs a WS to kill it, and you have the TP, run in and smash it before it kills you. For the casual player who isn't quite sure when you should fight weakened, don't fight in this state unless the lead explicitly tells you to get back in. Getting KO'd over and over isn't helping you or anyone. Your damage is seriously limited and it only helps if the party desperately needs it.

You'll do more in the long run by becoming unweak. This is especially true if you were given "Arise", which makes your recovery time far less than if you got a normal Raise.

Words aren't toxic, people are.

Pet peeve of mine to say "that is toxic". That's an easy line to fall back to when it actually means "I don't like this".

Brah RDM you dont regen 2 every 1 thats a white mage *** job , Refresh the tank, Refreesh the dd that has sortie Accessory for - enmity use ur dual weild And debuff and *** Out parse your COR with seraph blades and Savage blades!! That's how u RDM NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REGEN IS A *** SPELL!!! REGEN IS HARAM AND BLASPHEMY FOR A RDM TO USE IN THIS TIME OF AGE !!!

That's tox... ahhhh nvm

I dont thinks its DD becomes meathead that dont listen to strategy.
But lets looks at the job types here:

- Healer jobs you have to pay attention to others you hav to keep up buff rotations and take care of others.
- Buff jobs again buff rotation and a focus on helping other do their best.
- Tank job again a lot of work to do keep you defenses up might need to do skillchains setup as well. might need to assist healing.
- DD job. is smash what is front of you. maybe do skillchains. its way more self focussed

on a rough generalization the DD job, it is attractive for people that dont care for other as they dont have "care for others" built into its core function.
kinda like how if you are a pedofile you are not going to want to be a dragqueen. Everyone eyes are on you then. instead you will probably want to be a youth pastor where you have easy and trusted access to kids. or cops were you have a certain amount of authority over illegal actions.

The job dont define or change you. it just attracts these people because of its more fitting nature of their bad behavior.

This isn’t 16 years ago most people still playing this game all have R15 Masa Calad Vere and similar gear as each other. I mean I’ve had a Idris / Epeo for over 5 years I can’t imagine most players not at this point. So it’s the player not the job. Oh and I’m considered super casual too that has hardly played in 3-4 years with an inactive sub

Thank you for your input. Perhaps take it as a word with a definition that aligns with the statement.

This post took a strange turn. Sure, you wanted to provide an example, but that was your example? /facepalm

And I don't agree with this "DDs don't care for others" mentality. As a DD, I absolutely care about the party, because if I don't kill quick enough, perhaps the tank dies, or the healer gets hate and dies. It's my duty to kill things efficiently to keep everyone safe. Those DD putting all their focus on their epeen numbers without paying attention to the situation are the absolute worst. You get no rewards for topping a parse. Take care of those around you... that's what really matters.

It's just the common mentality that this game's base has had for decades at this point.

All XI guides are damage centric, telling your best gearing options based on raw damage numbers first, then "niche" gearsets second.

Some guides or discussions also preface certain DDs with things like, "If you're not topping the parse, then you're not doing your job."

This is also bleed in from people coming to XI from other MMOs/taking breaks from XI to play other MMOs where the trinity system rewards that sort of thinking, where tanks nearly can't lose hate / there is no thoughts for DPS other than, dodge(do mechs) and hit.

It reflects a mainstream school of thought, which is people shouldn't have to think, be patient, or truly strategize when it comes to games. Couple that with FFXI's climate since ToAU era. Sushi came out, that along with Soul Voice bard rotation + CORs = kill Kirin in a couple minutes opposed to 2-3 hours. All the thought got done ahead of time by other people, and the meathead DDs are just cogs in their machine, content to be just that.

It's gotten worse since Trusts took over the role of leveling and learning. What's a DD do while progressing through the game? They setup healer and support Trusts and just bang away, and if that's not good enough for whatever they're doing, they either buy a merc or write it off as something to skip (certain Ambus).

I'm also sure there's the fact that people come to game for different reasons, and value group success less than personal success. You hear nostalgic tales, and there's very few where people talk about amazing memories they have about their group doing well versus themselves doing well or how they were affected by event X.

Like, I can relate two stories for you.

In one, I'm a complete meathead, and I hit Jailer of Love for more damage than anyone else in my alliance ever has or will. I die in the doing, but BOOM core memory established.

In the other, I'm a COR in full Empyrean armor at the 95 cap, and I get invited to fill in a support slot in an alliance that's Perfect Defense zerging Absolute Virtue. I put the requested rolls on the party, and do what damage I can, but the only memorable thing is, "Yay, I finally got to be part of a group that killed AV!" - Well after other people at the forefront of content had killed it.

Like the reason a lot of folk don't come around to a balanced or more nuanced way of thinking about the jobs in XI or how they play is because there's never a severe enough punishment or roadblock for them. A farm run or two messed up by their own antics? Just write off the group, and keep being an animal.

There's basically no need in their mind to change, so why bother?

Maybe players using 3rd pt tool would have a different opinion, as a vanilla player I feel job type does play a role on player attention spread.

When I am engaged as a melee my camera is locked on one direction so anybody standing behind me can't be seen easily. I generally stand behind mobs so sometimes there is a chance not to be able to see every player in the camera view if tank position on the opposite direction.

As a mage I can see the entire battle field standing behind everybody. Further more, I can't see the status ailment of everyone else without tools, but on mage I can. So that is another difference.

When I am engaged as a melee I am managing many things at once: First it's the TP gauge which needs to be clicked every 4~ sec with good timing. Then it's JA downtime which has to be keep up. I also have to pay attention to mob direction, animation and TP move red line to swap in appropriate DT/resist sets on time then switch back. Then I also need to pay attention to accuracy/haste tiers to swap in in case buff drop.

On backline mage most of my attention is on what spells to cast next, everyone's buff timer, and ideal positioning. As backline I rarely need to worry about swapping in multiple DT sets once every few sec unless hate is on me(rarely), nor haste/acc tier and such. So all the attention can easily go to big picture point of view.

Even though my personality is always the same on different jobs, I do feel my attention is on different things when I play different roles. So I feel job type and their mechanics does change the player's attention spread, not just personality.

This probably doesn't apply to 3rd pt tool users entirely though. Since tools can manage sets or even auto WS for you, and you can see status of every member engaged. It should be easier to pay attention to big pictures as DD with tools, or as melee whm who cure and engage on the same time.

To be fair, I'm used to DDing, assessing the battle, typing out in party chat to lead the battle, eating a sandwich, browsing other windows, and all while my nephew distracts me with his guitar playing. Some can only handle doing one or two things simultaneously, while others get used to doing many things and knowing when to focus on something specific when it matters the most.

Having played tank, DD, and backline, I'm probably more focused as a tank and backline than I am while DDing, but DDing comes naturally to me, so that's probably why. It's a reflex at this point. I went away for a year, logged in, and immediately knew how to DD. Much like riding a bicycle, you don't forget.

Edit: I don't use tools like gearswap or any kind of automation to help me, either.

The question of “Why do DDs suck?” Is not an Asura problem, nor is it a problem of those “darn kids who don't know how to play FFXI in this day and age.”

Rather than making a blanket statement DD players are trash (Which I know is not the argument many of you are making) I'm going to posit that the issue of these trash DDs comes down to the mentality they are bringing to FFXI in the first place. This is a social game, and that ties in to why people play it, and where they want to find fun and validation in it. These aren't just people coming to FFXI who want to hit things, but more importantly, these are people who want to be SEEN hitting things. These guys persist over every generation, EBow Rng, Hagun Sam, Vere Mnk, Rag Drk, Almace Blu, Naegling War, etcetera and so on. Their ego is why they are here in the first place, they want to be seen swinging the absolute biggest e-peen on the internet, to be admired and worshipped for the girthiness of their DPS. Their party or alliance is their audience, and the absolute worst thing in their mind is to appear weak, impotent, or flaccid. Something something toxic masculine traits, if you acknowledge that as a thing.

These players do not exist in a vacuum, they are surrounded by others with their own egos and epeens, who also want to be seen and admired. Many of these other DDs will be better geared, or more skilled than the player in question. How does this player react to being upstaged? Do they cut corners like sacrificing the survivability of themselves and the party to inflate their DPS? Do they ignore their damage over time and use JAs to try and show their epeen through big weapon skill spikes? Are they grabbing whole mobs for themselves so that they can extend time-on-target and maybe brag about how independent they are, while completely ignoring the non-DD members of the party that are enabling them in the first place? Or do they, god forbid, acknowledge that the other DD is better than they are, sit back, and learn from them?

DD players are not necessarily lost causes, any of us here could point to someone other than themselves who is a good DD. But we all know That Guy. Maybe we were That Guy at some point ourselves. Its okay to come to this game looking to show off your epeen, provided that at some point you realize that, at an absolute minimum, the other members of your party will not even look at your epeen if you cannot carry your own weight. We've all seen those people in town, DD only players begging in yell to be let in to some kind, any kind of event. Its the FFXI equivalent of the homeless guys holding signs at intersections. They just want someone to look at their massive epeens, why isn't anyone looking? Oh, that guy is shouting for support jobs for some kind of event, better send them an unsolicited epeen pic /tell about what a shiny REMA they could have, if only they would take the DD they're not asking for!

Sometimes these players grow up and learn to not suck. Generally that means noticing the other players around them. Level a non-DD job and you'll see just how mediocre the average DD player really is. If you're lucky, you may meet legitimately good DD players and learn from them. And, when you've let your ego get out of the way so that you can actually play the game cooperatively with other people, you may get the opportunity to play your DD job again.
And this time maybe you don't suck.

Or you could say *** all that and just level another DD job while learning absolutely nothing, and cement your status as one of those guys who earn forum threads like this one.

You totally misunderstood the point.
The point I was bringing up is cause and effect. IT is not that DD are BAD (Which is exactly what you say as well)

But that DD jobs has a bigger attractiveness for bad players that just wanna focus on their DPS parse

If you don't care about other and you don't wanna deal with strategy, DD jobs are more attractive for that kind of mentality.
I'm taking the same stand as you do. DD can be plenty of smart it can be plenty of strategic played. Because its NOT DD jobs make you bad.


For the "Weirdnes" part i was using real world examples on how position themselves does not make you bad but they are very attrative for some bad people to get into

Cops has the highest rating of domestic violence. Not be cause being a cop make you a wife beater, but because people with violent behavior will love to be in a job were they get a gun and get to be violent against others.