If you run into a player that claims "versatility" because of their Masa SAM, Naegling WAR, and a JP Cleaving BLU, that's typically a good sign to avoid them.
They're the guy who videos themselves trying to dunk for 8 hours to post that 14 second clip they actually land one. They're the guy who tries to Happy Gilmore a golfball and throws out their knee while trying all day, just so they can brag to their buddies they did it.
Find the guy who's always forming groups on BRD or SCH. Hang out with that killer DD you saw once, but every other time you see them in town they're on GEO. Pair up with someone you've known for years as this amazing WHM, only to discover they've got hands down the best DRK you've seen live. No one gets to just play DD jobs any more. and if you think you can, its likely because you spend your time with your own personal alts for buffs...but the rest of the server's residents aren't your personal alts.
Meathead DDs Of FFXI, Please Help Me Understand...
Meathead DDs of FFXI, please help me understand...
Felgarr said: »
But why do these "non-DD-issues" ....seem to recurringly originate from players who (1) play heavy DDs and (2) also have a tendency to share the parse at the end of the run.
Serjero said: »
This can equally be applied to tanks, healers, and supports but there are 9-12 DD jobs in the game, 2-3 healers, 2-3 tanks, and 3ish dedicated supports so the LCD trends more towards players on DD jobs than the others just from sheer volume.
There's also the fact that DDs tend to have the least responsibility of the party, still an important aspect and sometimes just as important if they're also serving as the tank of the group, but with that lower amount of responsibility comes the lack of "need" to learn mechanics/strategy, cause that's the tank/healers job
Oh and personal exp is that many of the things ive joined were led by a DD job, sometimes the tank, almost never a support job
[+]
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
As a DD since 2004, let's address these problems.
1. This isn't a DD issue. It's a stupid person issue. Stupid people need to be told to bring the right items, and if stupid people still don't bring those items and use them when they were told, they are stupid and should be left out.
2. Again, not a DD issue, it's a stupid person issue. Most players, no matter what the job, would have the common sense to wait for buffs before they engage a big nasty.
3. And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
4. And, and again, not a DD issue. This player needs to be told not once, not twice, but at least three times before you even get to Botulus how to handle the mechanic. If they still can't get it right, don't let them in your party.
5. And, and, and again, not a DD issue. And they may not be an idiot this time, because they likely assumed that they needed to click on it to warp somewhere. Sortie has many mechanics. The leader should sufficiently tell players what they should and shouldn't do. In this case, they will learn from it. If they do it again on another run, then they are an idiot.
1. This isn't a DD issue. It's a stupid person issue. Stupid people need to be told to bring the right items, and if stupid people still don't bring those items and use them when they were told, they are stupid and should be left out.
2. Again, not a DD issue, it's a stupid person issue. Most players, no matter what the job, would have the common sense to wait for buffs before they engage a big nasty.
3. And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
4. And, and again, not a DD issue. This player needs to be told not once, not twice, but at least three times before you even get to Botulus how to handle the mechanic. If they still can't get it right, don't let them in your party.
5. And, and, and again, not a DD issue. And they may not be an idiot this time, because they likely assumed that they needed to click on it to warp somewhere. Sortie has many mechanics. The leader should sufficiently tell players what they should and shouldn't do. In this case, they will learn from it. If they do it again on another run, then they are an idiot.
I've ripped on Asura several times over the years, but I can't call this an Asura issue. This is just what happens anywhere, because people are/can be absolutely stupid. All you can do is work around this inevitability the best you can.
Think about it. How many posts have there been "I cant find a group to do anything, theres no one doing anything, I cant get invites to do content", and Asurans are all "oh, come to Asura, its lots of shouts here"?
Why do you think these people cant find a group to do anything? Theyre bad players who've been ostracized from the small server for being a bad player.
Why do you think these people cant find a group to do anything? Theyre bad players who've been ostracized from the small server for being a bad player.
[+]
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Think about it. How many posts have there been "I cant find a group to do anything, theres no one doing anything, I cant get invites to do content", and Asurans are all "oh, come to Asura, its lots of shouts here"?
Why do you think these people cant find a group to do anything? Theyre bad players who've been ostracized from the small server for being a bad player.
Why do you think these people cant find a group to do anything? Theyre bad players who've been ostracized from the small server for being a bad player.
Naturally, if somewhere has a higher population, the higher chances of finding struggling players. But I don't see that as a negative. They can be taught. 99% of them can learn and improve. You just have to give them a chance. If they absolutely refuse to learn, then that's when you give up.
[+]
Felgarr said: »
Hello fellow FFXI players!
I've been away from FFXI for most of 2023 and I've noticed a prevailing attitude among certain types of FFXI players. I think it's always existed, but maybe has gotten worse in recent time. I noticed that many (DD) players approach the game (those who still play FFXI after a recent player drop), seem to have a common approach towards the games objectives, regardless of their party composition and regardless of who they are playing with.
To be blunt, I see a complete lack of regard for the game's mechanics and these folks tend to approach objectives with total reckless abandonment. Very often, the consequences of their actions fall upon the other party members to correct and to say it's a thankless job, is an understatement. Unfortunately, I don't believe that being oblivious to consequences relinquishes you from blame. This also may come as a shock, but being #1 on the parse doesn't make up for your impairment on the group's overall effectiveness.
Let's be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about honest mistakes from players who genuinely want to learn or improve. For one, I have a tremendous amount of patience for people who want to learn or put in effort or are striving to be better.
If what I'm saying still isn't clear, here are some of my favorite, most memorable moments:
To the DD Player who often initiates this wake of self-destruction on their party:
Looking for serious, honest and constructive answers. I mean, what can we do to improve collaboration in a game that demands it?
Thanks.
TLDR: It doesn't matter what the demands of the role are, when you hire Will Ferell or Tom Cruise, you're just going to get Will Ferrell or Tom Cruise. Why are DDs still like this? Be better.
I've been away from FFXI for most of 2023 and I've noticed a prevailing attitude among certain types of FFXI players. I think it's always existed, but maybe has gotten worse in recent time. I noticed that many (DD) players approach the game (those who still play FFXI after a recent player drop), seem to have a common approach towards the games objectives, regardless of their party composition and regardless of who they are playing with.
To be blunt, I see a complete lack of regard for the game's mechanics and these folks tend to approach objectives with total reckless abandonment. Very often, the consequences of their actions fall upon the other party members to correct and to say it's a thankless job, is an understatement. Unfortunately, I don't believe that being oblivious to consequences relinquishes you from blame. This also may come as a shock, but being #1 on the parse doesn't make up for your impairment on the group's overall effectiveness.
Let's be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about honest mistakes from players who genuinely want to learn or improve. For one, I have a tremendous amount of patience for people who want to learn or put in effort or are striving to be better.
If what I'm saying still isn't clear, here are some of my favorite, most memorable moments:
Problem: DD in Sortie regularly refuses to use meds/oils/powders and flagrantly aggros mobs as the group moves from objective to objective.
Consequence: The last person to the Porter/Bitzer is left with your aggro and may not be able to proceed because of mob's hitting them. The person who is expected to sleep these mobs may not have the correct light/dark-element sleep for the unwanted mobs you've so graciously hand-delivered to your group. That person dies and the Sortie group loses time.
Solution: Oils and Prism Powders are ~6000g/stack. Use them and be aware of your surroundings/team mates.Problem: DD in a hyper-rush to get the boss in any given Sortie objective rushes to be the first one there and over-zealously engages the Boss when buffs aren't ready.
Consequence: You're racing to be the first at a red-light. Pre-maturely engaging the boss can lock folks out who haven't made it there yet (for many different reasons, including but not limited to different kinds of movement-speed gear).
Solution: See #1.
Problem: DD in Omen is weak with yellow HP from having died in the previous floor. No DT set, mass pull in the prior floor. The DD runs into a group of mobs and aggros nearby undead with yellow HP. The Healer told the DD to wait and the DD said "My HP is your problem, not mine!"
Consequence: This should be self-explanatory. You hurt the overall party's progression with your weakness.
Solution: I just don't know what to say, but you should feel bad.
Problem: An ML50 WAR in a sortie run kills Botulus in 40 seconds and is extremely proud of himself. He's aware the objective requires WSes from behind, but he still positions himself at a right angle. The tank is facing Botulus, the ML50 WAR is on the side, and everyone else is correctly facing the back). The WAR's second Upheaval causes Botulus to turn to him and hate isn't ever recovered by the tank. At the next salamander, everyone is inflicted with uncurable poison, dies and we all lose 5 minutes.
Consequence: Botulus's KI is needed to remove this uncurable poison. The WAR's thinking that DPS > all or that More DPS = more time savings actually backfired because there's no way to survive long enough given how potent the uncurable Poison is. To add insult to injury, when the salamander is supposed to be kited, the ML50 WAR opens the fight with Mighty Strikes, while the tank has only issued a single flash.
Solution: I just don't know what solution to offer here, when someone thinks their Weaponskills are kisses from God.
Problem: In a sortie D->H access run, someone clicks the Rematerialize button with 15 minutes remaining.
Consequence: Not having killed all the fomor yet, re-spawning them means the group loses track of what they did/did not kill.
Solution: I just have no words for this one.
To the DD Player who often initiates this wake of self-destruction on their party:
Why is it always someone else's problem? Why are you the way that you are?
What entitles you to have this "not my problem" attitude when you actually need other people to play (most objectives) in this game?
Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs?
Why diminish the roles of other people in your party with your shenanigans?
Looking for serious, honest and constructive answers. I mean, what can we do to improve collaboration in a game that demands it?
Thanks.
TLDR: It doesn't matter what the demands of the role are, when you hire Will Ferell or Tom Cruise, you're just going to get Will Ferrell or Tom Cruise. Why are DDs still like this? Be better.
TL;DR the majority of players in FFXI are *** HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE these days, just find a static of players that know what the *** they're doing and you'll be well off.
[+]
NotInspctrgdget said: »
TL;DR the majority of players in FFXI are *** HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE
Never not how it always was. You can find me saying that 17 years ago.
kuroki said: »
all the asura hate is funny as always, i'm sure on your server of 300 people everyone is a superstar and plays/gears to your standards.
in reality, when you only need 6 people to do any content in the game, it doesn't matter which server you play on. most asurans are there for the economy not the pug shouts.
in reality, when you only need 6 people to do any content in the game, it doesn't matter which server you play on. most asurans are there for the economy not the pug shouts.
then tell your shitty playerbase to stop coming onto Bahamut at 1 in the *** morning trying to recruit people in /yell to come to your shitty server.
Asura is a containment vessel for some of the worst & most cancerous players to have ever played the game. I'd rather play on a server with 300 active players with 50 or so being terrible than go to Asura with 1500 HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE *** on at any given point.
[+]
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Why do you think these people cant find a group to do anything? Theyre bad players who've been ostracized from the small server for being a bad player.
Correct. Many a stories like that. Sorry not sorry.
I think the reason for people that act\play like this is a much deeper conversation that isn't really suited for this venue, so I'll just rustle some jimmies and blame gearswap. Set it and forget it! Why learn mechanics when I can naegling and automate.
[+]
Bahamut.Jedigamer said: »
I think the reason for people that act\play like this is a much deeper conversation that isn't really suited for this venue, so I'll just rustle some jimmies and blame gearswap. Set it and forget it! Why learn mechanics when I can naegling and automate.
Quote:
21% of adults in the US are illiterate in 2023. 54% of adults have a literacy below 6th grade level.
What grinds my gears more is when people set a bot to grind in your party. After a while you ask everyone to stop, but they have gone AFK and keep pulling mobs anyway. This should not be normalised.
Win parse or bust, I don't give a fruck.
kuroki said: »
all the asura hate is funny as always, i'm sure on your server of 300 people everyone is a superstar and plays/gears to your standards.
in reality, when you only need 6 people to do any content in the game, it doesn't matter which server you play on. most asurans are there for the economy not the pug shouts.
in reality, when you only need 6 people to do any content in the game, it doesn't matter which server you play on. most asurans are there for the economy not the pug shouts.
Well 270 of those 300 are alts or bots anyway so more power to em I guess.
As if this thread wasn't dumb enough, it quickly devolves in to an Asura bash. Please be original. Nobody gives a crap if you think Asura people are dumb. And that comes from someone who was doing it years ago, before anyone else here. It has run its course.
[+]
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
What grinds my gears more is when people set a bot to grind in your party. After a while you ask everyone to stop, but they have gone AFK and keep pulling mobs anyway. This should not be normalised.
Then kick them. Honestly, if you do not like the way someone "plays", then do not play with them.
[+]
I mean.. this is some Allakhazam stories right here. Laughing about it and trolling seems appropriate.
It's the people you are playing with, Felgar. You're probably not used to PUGs, but these experiences are quite common with many of them. If that Sortie D > H access run was the one with Serpentdragon, then I am not even remotely surprised at what occurred. Start keeping a list of who is good and who is bad so that you can avoid the latter. None of the static groups I have run with have these types of issues, because they have already weeded out the shitters from joining.
[+]
Felgarr said: »
So, then a DD opening with a 99k Leaden Salute must be doing a great job? This is so incredibly wrong. Other players are not just conversational trusts that react to your impulsive playstyle.
Hyperactive DDs with no impulse control screw up enmity mechanics, cause mobs to bounce around, exhaust MP pools and frustrate actual humans who want to play support jobs. They just waste more time than their high DPS is saving.
Hyperactive DDs with no impulse control screw up enmity mechanics, cause mobs to bounce around, exhaust MP pools and frustrate actual humans who want to play support jobs. They just waste more time than their high DPS is saving.
So most of those answers were more tongue in cheek but serious replies about the mentality of a braindead DD.
That being said if you're pulling hate off a 99k Leaden Salute your tank is trash considering magic WSs pull nearly next to no hate and a single flash + any other ability or spell should be able to have hate cemented through that. I'll concede that if it's closing a SC immediately that also does 99k then you got me that can be problematic. Just being pedantic about this specific example here but should have used a better one.
When it comes to hate management yes it's a party/alliance wide responsibility but is pretty easily solvable. Dirge, Animus Minuo,Pacifying Ruby, and to a lesser extent Caper exist, use them. Schere earring exists, refresh your SAM DRK WAR and MNKs. Beyond that /DRG is a pretty viable sub for most DDs and comes with High Jump and Super Jump for scenarios outside Gaol. If your DDs want to play risky and loose tell them they can get more epeen WSs w/ the WSD trait and then tell them the jumps are also a DPS increase (technically true if it prevents them from dying).
Felgarr said: »
Respectfully, I just don't believe you. You can't say "fast lane" and "big *** damage", go hard or go home and then say "make sure people understand...". I've just never seen that kind of behavior from a DD.
I will say this, and it's totally just my anecdotal experience so sue me if you disagree: In my 20+ years of FFXI, I have never once had a heavy DD lead a run or be the person that people go to have mechanics or strategies explained.
I primarily play heavy DD for most of my groups and statics. I primarily lead most groups I play with, I primarily put the strategies together, and I primarily help try and brainstorm solutions when we run into problems. That being said I do still have PLD RUN BRD COR GEO all geared up and ready when the need arises. I'll be honest I try to push the limits on damage whenever possible, but I also structure the party comp, buffs, and strategy to try and allow for that. You can push hard as possible while still understanding the mechanics and strategy. Most melee fights in this game are trying to kill things as quickly as possible anyways, that's the entire point of zerging.
[+]
Serjero said: »
Felgarr said: »
So, then a DD opening with a 99k Leaden Salute must be doing a great job? This is so incredibly wrong. Other players are not just conversational trusts that react to your impulsive playstyle.
Hyperactive DDs with no impulse control screw up enmity mechanics, cause mobs to bounce around, exhaust MP pools and frustrate actual humans who want to play support jobs. They just waste more time than their high DPS is saving.
Hyperactive DDs with no impulse control screw up enmity mechanics, cause mobs to bounce around, exhaust MP pools and frustrate actual humans who want to play support jobs. They just waste more time than their high DPS is saving.
So most of those answers where more tongue in cheek but serious replies about the mentality of a braindead DD.
That being said if you're pulling hate off a 99k Leaden Salute your tank is trash considering magic WSs pull nearly next to no hate and a single flash + any other ability or spell should be able to have hate cemented through that. I'll concede that if it's closing a SC immediately that also does 99k then you got me that can be problematic. Just being pedantic about this specific example here but should have used a better one.
When it comes to hate management yes it's a party/alliance wide responsibility but is pretty easily solvable. Dirge, Animus Minuo,Pacifying Ruby, and to a lesser extent Caper exist, use them. Schere earring exists, refresh your SAM DRK WAR and MNKs. Beyond that /DRG is a pretty viable sub for most DDs and comes with High Jump and Super Jump for scenarios outside Gaol. If your DDs want to play risky and loose tell them they can get more epeen WSs w/ the WSD trait and then tell them the jumps are also a DPS increase (technically true if it prevents them from dying).
Felgarr said: »
Respectfully, I just don't believe you. You can't say "fast lane" and "big *** damage", go hard or go home and then say "make sure people understand...". I've just never seen that kind of behavior from a DD.
I will say this, and it's totally just my anecdotal experience so sue me if you disagree: In my 20+ years of FFXI, I have never once had a heavy DD lead a run or be the person that people go to have mechanics or strategies explained.
I primarily play heavy DD for most of my groups and statics. I primarily lead most groups I play with, I primarily put the strategies together, and I primarily help try and brainstorm solutions when we run into problems. That being said I do still have PLD RUN BRD COR GEO all geared up and ready when the need arises. I'll be honest I try to push the limits on damage whenever possible, but I also structure the party comp, buffs, and strategy to try and allow for that. You can push hard as possible while still understanding the mechanics and strategy. Most melee fights in this game are trying to kill things as quickly as possible anyways, that's the entire point of zerging.
This point, your second post, makes a much more salient point than your first one. Sometimes the tongue-in-cheek comments don't carry as much weight when delivered through text. I saw this in your post history and laughed out loud. I can't believe I missed months of these kinds of jokes while I was away:
Serjero said: »
But Asura is the Little Ceasers of PUGs. It's hot and it's ready. Is it good? It's hot and it's ready.
Man, that was hilarious. Very well said. OK Rooks, you can close the thread now. <3
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
If you run into a player that claims "versatility" because of their Masa SAM, Naegling WAR, and a JP Cleaving BLU, that's typically a good sign to avoid them.
They're the guy who videos themselves trying to dunk for 8 hours to post that 14 second clip they actually land one. They're the guy who tries to Happy Gilmore a golfball and throws out their knee while trying all day, just so they can brag to their buddies they did it.
Find the guy who's always forming groups on BRD or SCH. Hang out with that killer DD you saw once, but every other time you see them in town they're on GEO. Pair up with someone you've known for years as this amazing WHM, only to discover they've got hands down the best DRK you've seen live. No one gets to just play DD jobs any more. and if you think you can, its likely because you spend your time with your own personal alts for buffs...but the rest of the server's residents aren't your personal alts.
They're the guy who videos themselves trying to dunk for 8 hours to post that 14 second clip they actually land one. They're the guy who tries to Happy Gilmore a golfball and throws out their knee while trying all day, just so they can brag to their buddies they did it.
Find the guy who's always forming groups on BRD or SCH. Hang out with that killer DD you saw once, but every other time you see them in town they're on GEO. Pair up with someone you've known for years as this amazing WHM, only to discover they've got hands down the best DRK you've seen live. No one gets to just play DD jobs any more. and if you think you can, its likely because you spend your time with your own personal alts for buffs...but the rest of the server's residents aren't your personal alts.
This is actually really good advice.
[+]
All I know is that if today you're a years old regular ffxi player and ALL you got are 2 DD jobs + an underappreciated, no gear, NQ mage/support job that can't land a debuff or properly heal or buff your party you should know that YOU ARE A BURDEN in most end game content.
Read your guides, ask questions, start learning how to form balanced parties for the corresponding event that you wanna do (ambuscades), get your homepoints/waypoints/book warps instead of asking when the next aeonic/sheolNM is (lol). You know, content that is out of ur league for the time being?
You must first do what you have to do in order to do what you want to do.
Read your guides, ask questions, start learning how to form balanced parties for the corresponding event that you wanna do (ambuscades), get your homepoints/waypoints/book warps instead of asking when the next aeonic/sheolNM is (lol). You know, content that is out of ur league for the time being?
You must first do what you have to do in order to do what you want to do.
[+]
Yeah I remember this horrible period.
If you weren't RNG you weren't getting into alliance as a dd.
Also Ridills being prioritised for RNGs.
But that all pales in comparison to WS macro smash today. A lot of those RNGs were skilled, or rather, the game demanded a certain threshold of skill and knowledge, even for DD's.
If you weren't RNG you weren't getting into alliance as a dd.
Also Ridills being prioritised for RNGs.
But that all pales in comparison to WS macro smash today. A lot of those RNGs were skilled, or rather, the game demanded a certain threshold of skill and knowledge, even for DD's.
Felgarr said: »
Solution: Oils and Prism Powders are ~6000g/stack.
But i have no money!
Felgarr said: »
Hello fellow FFXI players!
I've been away from FFXI for most of 2023 and I've noticed a prevailing attitude among certain types of FFXI players. I think it's always existed, but maybe has gotten worse in recent time. I noticed that many (DD) players approach the game (those who still play FFXI after a recent player drop), seem to have a common approach towards the games objectives, regardless of their party composition and regardless of who they are playing with.
To be blunt, I see a complete lack of regard for the game's mechanics and these folks tend to approach objectives with total reckless abandonment. Very often, the consequences of their actions fall upon the other party members to correct and to say it's a thankless job, is an understatement. Unfortunately, I don't believe that being oblivious to consequences relinquishes you from blame. This also may come as a shock, but being #1 on the parse doesn't make up for your impairment on the group's overall effectiveness.
Let's be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about honest mistakes from players who genuinely want to learn or improve. For one, I have a tremendous amount of patience for people who want to learn or put in effort or are striving to be better.
If what I'm saying still isn't clear, here are some of my favorite, most memorable moments:
To the DD Player who often initiates this wake of self-destruction on their party:
Looking for serious, honest and constructive answers. I mean, what can we do to improve collaboration in a game that demands it?
Thanks.
TLDR: It doesn't matter what the demands of the role are, when you hire Will Ferell or Tom Cruise, you're just going to get Will Ferrell or Tom Cruise. Why are DDs still like this? Be better.
I've been away from FFXI for most of 2023 and I've noticed a prevailing attitude among certain types of FFXI players. I think it's always existed, but maybe has gotten worse in recent time. I noticed that many (DD) players approach the game (those who still play FFXI after a recent player drop), seem to have a common approach towards the games objectives, regardless of their party composition and regardless of who they are playing with.
To be blunt, I see a complete lack of regard for the game's mechanics and these folks tend to approach objectives with total reckless abandonment. Very often, the consequences of their actions fall upon the other party members to correct and to say it's a thankless job, is an understatement. Unfortunately, I don't believe that being oblivious to consequences relinquishes you from blame. This also may come as a shock, but being #1 on the parse doesn't make up for your impairment on the group's overall effectiveness.
Let's be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about honest mistakes from players who genuinely want to learn or improve. For one, I have a tremendous amount of patience for people who want to learn or put in effort or are striving to be better.
If what I'm saying still isn't clear, here are some of my favorite, most memorable moments:
Problem: DD in Sortie regularly refuses to use meds/oils/powders and flagrantly aggros mobs as the group moves from objective to objective.
Consequence: The last person to the Porter/Bitzer is left with your aggro and may not be able to proceed because of mob's hitting them. The person who is expected to sleep these mobs may not have the correct light/dark-element sleep for the unwanted mobs you've so graciously hand-delivered to your group. That person dies and the Sortie group loses time.
Solution: Oils and Prism Powders are ~6000g/stack. Use them and be aware of your surroundings/team mates.Problem: DD in a hyper-rush to get the boss in any given Sortie objective rushes to be the first one there and over-zealously engages the Boss when buffs aren't ready.
Consequence: You're racing to be the first at a red-light. Pre-maturely engaging the boss can lock folks out who haven't made it there yet (for many different reasons, including but not limited to different kinds of movement-speed gear).
Solution: See #1.
Problem: DD in Omen is weak with yellow HP from having died in the previous floor. No DT set, mass pull in the prior floor. The DD runs into a group of mobs and aggros nearby undead with yellow HP. The Healer told the DD to wait and the DD said "My HP is your problem, not mine!"
Consequence: This should be self-explanatory. You hurt the overall party's progression with your weakness.
Solution: I just don't know what to say, but you should feel bad.
Problem: An ML50 WAR in a sortie run kills Botulus in 40 seconds and is extremely proud of himself. He's aware the objective requires WSes from behind, but he still positions himself at a right angle. The tank is facing Botulus, the ML50 WAR is on the side, and everyone else is correctly facing the back). The WAR's second Upheaval causes Botulus to turn to him and hate isn't ever recovered by the tank. At the next salamander, everyone is inflicted with uncurable poison, dies and we all lose 5 minutes.
Consequence: Botulus's KI is needed to remove this uncurable poison. The WAR's thinking that DPS > all or that More DPS = more time savings actually backfired because there's no way to survive long enough given how potent the uncurable Poison is. To add insult to injury, when the salamander is supposed to be kited, the ML50 WAR opens the fight with Mighty Strikes, while the tank has only issued a single flash.
Solution: I just don't know what solution to offer here, when someone thinks their Weaponskills are kisses from God.
Problem: In a sortie D->H access run, someone clicks the Rematerialize button with 15 minutes remaining.
Consequence: Not having killed all the fomor yet, re-spawning them means the group loses track of what they did/did not kill.
Solution: I just have no words for this one.
To the DD Player who often initiates this wake of self-destruction on their party:
Why is it always someone else's problem? Why are you the way that you are?
What entitles you to have this "not my problem" attitude when you actually need other people to play (most objectives) in this game?
Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs?
Why diminish the roles of other people in your party with your shenanigans?
Looking for serious, honest and constructive answers. I mean, what can we do to improve collaboration in a game that demands it?
Thanks.
TLDR: It doesn't matter what the demands of the role are, when you hire Will Ferell or Tom Cruise, you're just going to get Will Ferrell or Tom Cruise. Why are DDs still like this? Be better.
Honestly? these scenarios seem very specific and most likely some PUG with some people that don't run sortie/omen very often. Also, why do you limit this to DDs? I've run into plenty of bonehead players from Tanks and Support. Lastly, not everyone has been playing since 2004, and there are plenty that started this year that'll be doing Omen/Ambuscade/et al by now.
My constructive advice? You've already said the game demands communication with everyone. If you have a voice chat software like Discord, invite them to the server so you can tell them what to do, and 100% sure that they know what to do and when. Be the leader, otherwise shut up and follow or get out of the way. If you don't have a leader and everyone is expecting to know what to do in a PUG, you've already lost. If you've been playing any MMO, you'd already know this. You yourself say the game demands collaboration, but it seems to me that you skip that part and expected everyone to know what to do with little or no communication in a random PUG.
Also every single one of your scenarios reads like this to me:
Problem: Players don't know exactly what to do and just play the game to the best of their knowledge.
Consequence: Not achieving objectives/losing time because not everyone knew exactly what to do.
Solution: Someone knowledgeable about the content stepping up to be a leader and being proactive to prevent this problem in the first place.
TL;DR: If nobody is willing to step up and actually lead (especially in a PUG), what right do you have to complain when things go sideways?
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Felgarr said: »
Problem: DD in Sortie regularly refuses to use meds/oils/powders and flagrantly aggros mobs as the group moves from objective to objective.
This isn't anywhere close to DD problem, this is pt organization/communication problem and it is very easy to solve.
Whenever my strategy or content need certain med/item I always tell people "get this med/item" before I enter. If that med is very important for the strategy I double check with another /p before I really click enter: "everyone got this med/item???"
In the very rare case if someone is THAT forgetful I put the important med/item in bazaar for 1g so anyone get them if necessary.
Personally Ive never run into anyone missing important med/item if I warn them beforehand and use the 1g bazaar trick.
The real problem here is that a lot of leaders don't bother to communicate then expect everyone to know what to do without telling people what to do. This is pt lead problem imo.
Felgarr said: »
Problem: DD in Omen is weak with yellow HP from having died in the previous floor. No DT set, mass pull in the prior floor. The DD runs into a group of mobs and aggros nearby undead with yellow HP. The Healer told the DD to wait and the DD said "My HP is your problem, not mine!"
Consequence: This should be self-explanatory. You hurt the overall party's progression with your weakness.
Solution: I just don't know what to say, but you should feel bad.
Consequence: This should be self-explanatory. You hurt the overall party's progression with your weakness.
Solution: I just don't know what to say, but you should feel bad.
Just FYI, DDs having a weakened DT- set with HP boost can easily reach 2000+ HP weakened. Whenever I raise a dead DD on healer I also heal their HP full, so they can go hit whatever they want with a weakened HP+ DT- set. If they don't have a weakened DT- set I just give them cure V cureskin as their HP buffer so they can be safe.
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
It depends....
I've survived Kalunga v20(when it was the highest level content)weakened effect frontline with max HP DT- set with no issues. I would say unless the mob is hitting more than 2200+ damage in HP boost DT- set it's probably safe to engage weakened if you are prepared.
One of the advantage of staying frontline isn't extra dmg, but also extra MP return from curaga hitting more DDs. And any frontline relevant JA that helps everyone like steps or warcry.
That being said, if you are dead you need to wait until whm putting up pro/shell, cureskin and any relevant songs from brd. If your support don't rebuff after raise then DD shouldn't run in too.
How aggressive a DD can play absolutely depends on how hard healers/supports are willing to work imo. There are no absolute correct way to handle such situation, it all depends on people.
Afania said: »
Whenever my strategy or content need certain med/item I always tell people "get this med/item" before I enter. If that med is very important for the strategy I double check with another /p before I really click enter: "everyone got this med/item???"
I agree that these problems can be solved by more communication, but I think "Don't walk into a mob which detects by sound with no sneak on" is a low bar to pass for even a new player. Knowing which mobs aggro which detection method (or asking) is not exactly a problem which needs to be solved by the leader. It can be. You can baby-walk people through every single enemy they will see, but I think at some point you have to expect that the human being on the other side of the internet will make some kind of effort, and you won't be expected to play all 6 characters at once by proxy.
@Felgarr
I understand you are just venting and I understand your dilemma. The folks you are talking about are trash. You can spot them a mile away. (All their gear is bought, all their MLs 50 were botted, etc) I would propose you accept a small amount of accountability for your situation. Meaning you choose to play with them. No one is forcing this upon you.
But then the dilemma becomes, "Where do I find a good group on a 20 year old dying game where 5% of the serviceable players are already in groups?" You don't... if you want to get ahead, you must assume a leadership role. All the end game content, sortie, odyssey requires STRONG leadership and strategies to win. So all you have to do is find 5 non-idiots who A) will put in the work and B) will follow explicit direction.
Once you have a core group, you'll get results pretty quickly. NETWORK on your server, find out who's who, don't be afraid to cut the incompetent and replace them when you're starting up. Once you start getting wins, people will be messaging you for openings. Make it happen yourself, if it's something you want. If you been out of the game for a while, the likelihood of getting into an establish functional group is close to nil at this point.
Good Luck
I understand you are just venting and I understand your dilemma. The folks you are talking about are trash. You can spot them a mile away. (All their gear is bought, all their MLs 50 were botted, etc) I would propose you accept a small amount of accountability for your situation. Meaning you choose to play with them. No one is forcing this upon you.
But then the dilemma becomes, "Where do I find a good group on a 20 year old dying game where 5% of the serviceable players are already in groups?" You don't... if you want to get ahead, you must assume a leadership role. All the end game content, sortie, odyssey requires STRONG leadership and strategies to win. So all you have to do is find 5 non-idiots who A) will put in the work and B) will follow explicit direction.
Once you have a core group, you'll get results pretty quickly. NETWORK on your server, find out who's who, don't be afraid to cut the incompetent and replace them when you're starting up. Once you start getting wins, people will be messaging you for openings. Make it happen yourself, if it's something you want. If you been out of the game for a while, the likelihood of getting into an establish functional group is close to nil at this point.
Good Luck
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