Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

My guess is that their HP wasn't full because of a gear swap, Origin healed them to full right before the same gear swap that had uncapped their HP prior to the WS happened again.

Any chance you've gotten to go GEO and your perspective still rings true?

Did some follow-up testing with Gae Buide (Diarmuid). My Gleti's is R0, so I swapped the body and legs for R25 Nyame. But my set yielded pretty much the same results with different buffs/debuffs on a different mob.

ML50 DRG/SAM
Support: GEO/RDM (no COR, no BRD, no main RDM)
Mob: Locus Crabs in Bibiki Bay (I believe resistant to piercing).
Buff: Attack bubble
Debuff: Geo Frailty, Dia II (Frazzle and Distract were routinely used, but I executed WS before they were up)
Hasso
3K TP and aftermath up.

Was hitting cap (99999) consistently from the outset. Hit in the high 70Ks a couple times when crab's bubble shower zapped my STR.

They are not pierce resistant. Frailty wrecks them since they aren't GEO resistant. But yeah 99999 should be result of all Primes at 3000tp with those buffs.

You would think this but its not even close to what really happens.

Forgot about this thread, so I'll repost my SMN findings here as well. The context is that I'd mentioned using Apogee to make a 3-step with Ifrit (Oshala > Flaming > Flaming), and later discovered there's a 3-step when Apogee is down as well, making this the first time I've felt like I had a properly powerful melee option on SMN that doesn't overly rely on my avatar's damage output to make me feel like I'm contributing.


Oshala was hitting for 20-30k average, peaking at 50-60k, on Locus Colibri/Wivres with BRD/COR/SMN buffs and grape daifuku.

I've come across some verification testing for some of the Prime Weapon Skills that contradicts the values or fills in some gaps on BG.

Edit: This is just a repost of information gathered from various tests. I do not claim this information to be correct/incorrect.

Links provided for anyone that wants to have a look at the data:

Ruthless Stroke: DEX 20%/AGI 20%
fTP values:
1000 TP-1474/256
2000 TP-3716/256
3000 TP-5959/256

DEX/AGI mod verification after WSC modifier update
DEX 20%/AGI 20% value findings, 1000 TP fTP value verification
2000 & 3000 TP fTP value test data

Fimbulvetr: STR 50%/VIT 50%
fTP values:
1000 TP-914/256
2000 TP-1826/256
3000 TP-2742/256

Fimbulvetr fTP value test data

Disaster: STR 57%/VIT 57%
fTP values:
1000 TP-808/256
2000 TP-1614/256
3000 TP-2425/256

Disaster fTP value test data

Origin: STR 60%/INT 60%
fTP values:
1000 TP-3.0
2000 TP-6.0
3000 TP-9.0

Origin fTP value test data

Diarmuid: STR 57%/VIT57%
fTP values:
1000 TP-546/256
2000 TP-1348/256
3000 TP-2150/256

Diarmuid fTP value test data

Zesho Meppo: DEX 24%/AGI 24%
fTP values:
1000 TP-1116/256
2000 TP-3004/256
3000 TP-4885/256

Zesho Meppo fTP value test data

Tachi: Mumei: STR 51%/DEX 51%
fTP values:
1000 TP-903/256
2000 TP-1807/256
3000 TP-2710/256

Tachi: Mumei fTP value test data

Oshala: INT 45%/MND 45%
fTP values:
1000 TP-1010/256
2000 TP-2021/256
3000 TP-3031/256

Oshala fTP value test data

Sarv: STR 66%/AGI 66%
fTP values:
1000 TP-698/256
2000 TP-1396/256
3000 TP-2094/256

Sarv fTP value test data

Terminus: DEX 71%/AGI 71%
fTP values:
1000 TP-644/256
2000 TP-1288/256
3000 TP-1932/256

Terminus fTP value test data

I know for a fact that Fimbulvetr is not 50% STR/VIT and was posted many pages earlier. It was ~60% +/- about 3%.

Did you do any of this yourself or just reposting from a JP twitter account?

I agree we beat that horse pretty dead. I put it on wiki after testing your data vs mine and it checked out.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Fimbulvetr

Its still a nice compilation of information to review and compare on many of the lesser tested weapons.

I just simply reposted the data I found. I suppose I could have been more clear in that I do not claim these findings are correct/incorrect. I will amend my post to make this more apparent to alleviate any further confusion.

It is still valuable to investigate these datasets to see why there are disparities as this data is being used to update the jpwiki.


I appreciate the testing done. Would you mind linking these data sets in the references? For all the testing done there is a distinct lack of referenced test data for so many of these new weapon skills. For example, in the case of Tachi: Mumei the referenced data links just lead to broken images.

The drain from origin is only on the first hit so if first hit misses and only extra hits land u could lose hp and not get any back

So I guess ruthless stroke is only 20% dex and 20% agi mod, not 25 and 25. That puts MPU gandring's power level even closer to twashtar's than ever.

Made a stage 4 Caliburnus, played around with Imperator a bit in Dyna, mostly wave 2 some wave 3 (on BLU). My buffs were inconsistent with being shuffled from one party to another with some actual buffs in the party, but not having fury from the GEO.

Yes, the damage seems weak, especially compared to Expiacion with Tizona, or Savage Blade with Naegling.

I noticed sometimes, the WS would spike somewhat. I changed my offhand from the TP bonus sword, to Zantetsuken, then played around with Sakpata's Sword in the offhand. Damage seemed to go up a bit, like, there were times I saw ~12k WSs, and times I saw ~25k, could remember seeing a bit higher than that.

Hypothesis: Imperator is a 1-hit, fTP replicating WS. The more multihit procs you get, the more damage you get. You'd want to have a better offhand than the TP bonus, because you want the better offhand hits than a Machaera +2 or better can offer.

Reminds me somewhat of Upheaval, where WSD works, but fTP transfers between hits, so it's in that weird place where you want multihit, but you ALSO want WSD, and you want higher TP levels before you WS, so it's just weird scaling all around.

I just got this weapon 2 days ago, and haven't gotten to test it a whole lot with good, quality buffs (think I had a 3 song bard that used SV to get 4 songs in Dyna-D, had a bunch of rolls though, was a multiboxer doing a bunch of characters).

Needs more testing to confirm. Was using my expiacion WS set in my lua for Imperator.

where to start XD

No, Imperator doesn't have ftp replicated on multihit/offhand. RDM with TemperII would 99k with it very frequently otherwise and you are first person ever to report damage spikes like that.

Damage spikes was most likely because of mobs in dyna taking bonus damage or possibly you was getting warcry from WAR or both.

fTP doesn't transfer on Upheaval hits. Where you got that from lol

If you ever want to make a real valid test, do it in the controlled scenario.

Was Dyna Jeuno Zone, and someone said awhile back to me "oh, you use WSD for upheaval, but it transfers fTP, so your gearing priorities vary according to your buffs and TP levels." But point taken, forgot all about that ***with mobs taking different amounts of damage according to the statues eyes, guess I jumped to conclusions. Sorry.

Hello guys zessho is 18 ftp on 3k or is that wrong info? If so why people say its bad?

Katana damage isn't high, so WS needs to have pretty good WSC to make high damage. Look at Blade: ten for example, it has 15.5 fTP at 3000TP and is still pretty mediocre, because it only has 30% STR/DEX mods. Now 25% DEX/AGI on Zesho is pretty terrible. Zesho isn't bad, but it's still barely mediocre. It has very poor response to Master levels and buffs like Boost:Stat. Ruthless Stroke has similar problem tbh even with 23 fTP at 3000TP, but DNC has self buffs that makes it OP anyway (Climactic and Building Flourishes) and 23fTP is still 27% higher than 18, while katana+wsc base damage is only like 9.5% higher than base damage with dagger+wsc, which still makes Ruthless much better WS overall.

What would it need to be good? 50% 50% or 70% 70%?

But blade ten is a 2 hit snd this is a one hit ws no?

Both Prime dagger and katana are 4 hits, with the first hit having large ftp scaling but less impressive WSC

Blade: Ten is single hit (+ offhand), but offhand and extra hits are only 1 fTP with non replicating WSs.

With 18fTP?

35% DEX/AGI would make it good enough to win with Naegling Savage on NIN.



Technically it's 2hits while dual wielding and Zesho is 2hits 5hits with dual wielding, but with 15.5fTP on first hit and 18fTP on first hit, any subsequent hits are almost meaningless for damage (they are still important for TP return). Considering WSD in sets, first hit is 90~96% of whole damage on Blade:ten and 85%+ damage on Zesho.

Blue Eyes take 50% more damage, green takes 20% more, red eyes take no additional damage. Jeuno is a bad place to test things.

hmmmm


But if caliburnus is 70% Dex + 70% MND that would make almace R15 a great choice for offhand no?
Getting 2k on rdm is quite fast

1. It would still be worse than Thibron
2. It's not 70% DEX/MND. Those values are based on a highly invalid test by some JP dude. Every data gathered with right testing methods suggest it's completely different. It's more like 18-19 fTP at 3000 and low WSC. Something around 35% MND/DEX or less. Hard to tell exactly, I don't remember if someone has done more test on WSC.

You only get the 50 Dex on the first page of the weapon. Not the additional 20 Dex and Mnd in the augments. And it has no Attack so I'd probably take Gleti's Knife or Sakpata's Sword if I wasn't taking Thibron.

The 2 positives of 1h primes is that you probably don't need to make one and if you do, it won't be walled by other people using it. They just made 2h primes a lot better with the current state of the game being PDL focused.

At any point they can add new gear and content to make this untrue, but that doesn't look likely and probably not soon.

Edit: This is coming from someone whose main job is RDM, wants very much for either or both of the Prime Weapons to be worth making compared to getting an exceptional 2h weapon, and is only not disappointed because those 2h weapons are very good.

You can make a ridiculously long SC with Caliburnus + Thibron + Ullr and nothing relevant is going to need you do that because they don't have the HP to take all that SC damage. If they don't take SC damage then Savage Blade or Black Halo it and come out ahead of Imperator.

That person didn't know exactly what they were saying, and they were just repeating what was written on the war thread a million years ago where you want to gear Upheaval for DA under 1900-2000TP, and for WSD above. Issue is that with Chango, you never Upheaval for less than 1750TP, making different gear sets completely useless. So the different gear things apply on run or drk or war with ukon (which wants to Upheaval at 2k+ tp anyway or you lost the white damage from ukon am3...)

TL;DR: nah.


Isn't dagger pretty good?

Think its rdms best pierce option so long as they can use magian OH, otherwise i think mandau edges out?

As a piercing weak leverage tool that makes Fusion/Light, yes! As a direct competitor to savage blade solo and/or in a meta that sees you walling your DNC...less so.

I will happily take any testimonials of people saying their Ruthless Stroke is competitive with their Savage Blade or Black Halo damage. I just haven't seen any of those and the reported numbers/testing doesn't make me think I will. I am happy to be wrong.

Non-Data driven Rant: Ruthless is similar enough to Rudra to make an easy comparison for me. I was never jealous of being skipped on Rudra's when Empys came out. I was only jealous of THF's ability to SA/TA it and if anything I'm happy to see DNCs finally being played well.

I already have every situationally niche piece for RDM that isn't a Prime so unless it's overshadowing those, I'm doing 8.5m galli for the status quo vs getting a weapon that does invalidate everything that came before it on a different job. One that I definitely don't have as well geared as RDM.