Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

I remember that dude who was all "I can solo VD lilith on MNK, its easy" and posts a video of them not getting bounced around.

Been done 4 years ago (most likely) without JA0.

https://youtu.be/KV6kEOTuHro?si=WYKI3TLdpvhozSKX&t=1478

Relic currency has been pushing 500k per 100 for awhile now and Stikini are getting dangerously close to 50m. They're clearly banning somebody.

Well there ya go, it can be done without JA0 and without seeing the mob's HP% even, go figure. Aside: this guy printing /checkparam every WS makes my eyes bleed.

This demonstrates a few things in one simple example:
-It can be done without all that crap
-It is much, much easier to do with all that crap

What would you call code that modifies the way the game functions in order to make it easier...? I swear there's a word, it's on the tip of my tongue but I just cannot figure out what it is...

This isn't helpful either, Saevel.

The entire conversation is not only not-helpful but is quite silly. Anything that is not 100% strictly vanilla, to and include windower, is against the ToS. This is not debatable, it's right there in writing form the highest possibly authority for this game.

Everything after that is just one person trying to argue their set of gameshark codes is less "cheating" the other guys set of gameshark codes. The argument itself is irrational because it's premise is based on a subjective definition that is different for each human. The fundamental debate isn't over cheating because you all are already cheating, it's over degree's of cheating.

who gives a ***
this game is way too *** old to care how other people choose to play it

I think the conversation can be kind of pointless because few people are changing their minds and everyone is dug in on their positions. I will apologize for my part of sidetracking conversations, however, I'll refer back to Thorny's excellent point:


If people stop bringing up their cheats and how they aren't cheats constantly, I'll stop pointing out that they are, in fact, cheats. If people stop pretending that their cheats don't help them to beat content easier, I'll stop pointing out that it does, indeed, make content easier.


Eh...obviously I'm biased here but I don't think Windower itself is cheating or against ToS. While it is "unauthorized software" I don't think it is "designed to modify the Game and gameplay" because it doesn't change the way the game functions, or any part of the gameplay (that I'm aware of).



Sure, agree with this for the most part, but that's still a relevant subject and frankly, I think the slippery slope principle applies here, a lot. It goes from "I don't like equipsets so I use GS" to anchor, luas with automation, JA0, cureplease, tako, react, and ASE rather quickly, precisely because of the premise you present, which is "well, already cheating, might as well cheat some more, we're already morally compromised".

Again, going back to Thorny, it's harmful to the community because people insist that content is designed with those tools in mind, the content is impossible without them, or you're letting down your party if you don't use any/all of these.

Why don't you guys just make a new thread and call it:

Fine, I'll make my own prime weapon testing thread. with blackjack and hackers!

Instead of yammering on for pages in what used to be a useful thread.

All I know is I hate people that don't use anchor.

Might be slightly pedantic here, but even if you used 0 addons/plugins from windower, it still allows you to run multiple game clients which you otherwise couldn't do without some kind of sandbox application.

Some good points all around though:

1. Ch34ting is gonna happen, everyone's doing it (because nobody in their right mind isn't using windower). Talking about it is dumb. Talking about strats to beat content while ignoring use of said ch34ts is even dumber. In favor of "Fight Club" rules. Anyone posting strategy information/data should probably be doing it from a position of assuming use of gearswap and nothing else.

2. Nobody should be shamed for NOT using ch34ts. (Know quite a few ppl performing at the highest levels of endgame without even using gearswap.)

3. "this game is way too *** old to care how other people choose to play it"

4. I've only attained S4 GS and am 200k out from S3 dagger, but haven't seen anything that makes me think there's hidden attack (which means almost nothing because I'm not that observant.)

Just tested for peace of mind, no change in attack values for AM1/2/3 with Helheim. Doubt that changes with S5 but someone else will have to test that, though I'm sure it would have been found by now.

I think he was asking if there's an attack modifier to the WS, like Mandalic Stab/Howling Fist, or WS with a negative attack modifier like Resolution.

I would think this would've been discovered in the testing done for most (all?) prime WS at this point, but I wasn't involved in that testing so I'll leave it to people who know WTF they're talking about.

Yeah, took me a while to understand that you guys were actually the heros. Fighting hard on ffxiah to keep our community clean from the nazis. If that means polluting all major threads with your personal opinions, so be it. We never get tired of hearing it every single day.

Here nows, let's change that geriatric diaper and move on. But thanks for saving the day.

No, you guys are right. Keep adding pages and pages of your personal opinion because one casual player who barely posts here suggested react to another casual player. Nobody here is tired of hearing it.

Takes two sides to have an argument, bud.

Ahh, my bad. Thought it was something like Vajra's AM2 attack modifier being added.

This is isn't an argument. You don't even know what you are talking about. You still think that I am suggesting third party tools, which is something I have never done here, even in other threads. I even agree that it's better if people didn't suggest stuff like autows, react, tako, or even anchor etc. For instance, I don't think, on a sortie thread, someone should say: "Just fight aminon in the middle and use anchor to counter the knock-backs".

Now, if they do... we already know how we feel about it. It's been said, on probably all threads, many times over.

Changing subjects real quick.

What is the best reported Hard Mode sortie run for groups not using DNC? Is it still possible to do Aminon + 7 bosses, or not even? It sucks that, again, one job will shine above all others.

If everyone would stop going "look Ma no cheats" while literally showing a video of them using 200 addons plus jazero plus anchor plus whatever else then they would not get called out for being hypocrites.

I think that's fair.

Personally I cheat 100% of the time.

Mo too, but no movement speed+, so I'm better than you :P

Best we've done using DRK for HM Aminon is 5 bosses (ABCEG) but we're scrubs so I'm sure others have done better. I'm not sure if anyone has done HM + 8/8 with anything other than DNC.


Funny that DNC is catching flak for this when the other 5 jobs are also required and there's no flexibility there. Guess DDs are finally feeling what supports have been putting up with for years lol. There are also plenty of other pieces of content in FFXI where a specific DD is required/meta.

We were spitballing swapping PLD in the melee run for WHM to tank. Would have to compensate for tranquil heart with +enmity gear in the cure set.

This would give you Asylum for F boss (wind hands) and let the SCH stay in DRK arts most of the time. We haven't tried it, and a couple of us were drinking/otherwise inebriated, but we were excited to try it.

Wait...what in the world is your job setup for a "melee" run with SCH and PLD...?

We typically do DRK WAR BRD COR RDM WHM for melee, DRK PLD COR BRD GEO RDM for Aminon

You want to use Whm tank instead of Pld on hard Aminon? This I need to see.

It does have ridiculously high meva and the dd aren't meleeing. Wouldn't be easy per say, but certainly possible. (aka not efficient so not worth bothering)

Why don't you guys kite it Clint? I'm not a pro melee method but we barely have to deal with F gimmicks. When we do, some of us die. lol.

We use the standard indi-gravity with RDM gravity and he barely moves. As PLD I flash, foil, rampart, sentinel, valliance, vallation, pflug and that keeps him on me for the duration of the fight (if shadow doesn't forget to super-jump).

wait, DNC is a DD? i thought it was a support. with enough support, who needs DDs? 5 support 1 healing tank.

We do, but we (I) hate it.