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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
By SimonSes 2023-07-17 08:35:27
Simon is saying he seen BLU hit cap on basement bosses with Tizona R15 with Aria and DPS buffs. I can't see BLU wanting this. But as I am mainly RDM I can finally see the use. RDM is PDL starved anyways so it's not the worst idea. Plus my PLD will have a cool Refresh Idle piece if I stupidly decide on the Sword.
I didn't say, that I have seen Expiation hitting cap. I just calculated it by adding 30%pdl to numbers without Aria. Its pretty safe assumption tho.
Prime sword is definitely for RDM not for BLU. Its not only about Expiation damage, but also mainly TP generation. BLU doesn't have Temper II to massively boost multiattack. You only have 5% TA from trait. Without Tizona AM3 you would need to build completely different inferior sets for tp aiming to balance multiattack and stp in them.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1496
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-07-17 15:08:27
Yeah at first look with the previous SC properties, I thought the sword would be all BLU. Now it's no BLU and technically the other 2.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-07-19 21:49:31
Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
 Shiva.Mewtwo
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 52
By Shiva.Mewtwo 2023-07-20 07:11:38
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
Serveur: Cerberus
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Posts: 1786
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-07-20 09:13:13
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
How reliable is the data coming from Stage 3 weapons coming from mobs we don't know the stats for though?
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By Foxfire 2023-07-20 09:35:30
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
How reliable is the data coming from Stage 3 weapons coming from mobs we don't know the stats for though? We should know the stats for some of the starter mobs (acuex/leech/wtv) - Proth tested as much earlier on, so we have the baseline to determine info, even with the stage 3 constraints
By SimonSes 2023-07-20 10:27:12
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
How reliable is the data coming from Stage 3 weapons coming from mobs we don't know the stats for though?
The only stat that matters at all is VIT, so you know if you cap fSTR or not (but those leeches are lvl 119 or 120, they have maybe 200VIT), but even then several points of fSTR are maybe 1% of total base damage, so it would barely change any results.
By SimonSes 2023-07-23 06:42:06
Aria of Passion
+2 (base stage3): 15% (14.9235474)
+5 (with neck): 19% (1.189602446)
Which means around ~12.23% base and ~1.345% per each +1
Idk how to update bgwiki for Aria of Passion, songs seems to use some container.
EDIT: In case someone will question it because no data..
No Aria RA: 1635
Aria+2 RA: 1879
Aria+5 RA: 1945
Obviously same target, same gear, no other PDL.
By SimonSes 2023-07-23 06:46:28
I didn't say, that I have seen Expiacion hitting cap.
Now I can say I have seen it ;)
The none 99k on NMs are without Chaos roll, so could be uncapped attack.
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 Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2023-07-23 06:55:43
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
How reliable is the data coming from Stage 3 weapons coming from mobs we don't know the stats for though?
I checked but there is no reference to testing data, so take anything with a dump truck load of salt.
By SimonSes 2023-07-23 08:44:29
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
How reliable is the data coming from Stage 3 weapons coming from mobs we don't know the stats for though?
I checked but there is no reference to testing data, so take anything with a dump truck load of salt.
99% people ignore data anyway. They just want results.
Anyway here is data for Origin
Code Base STR INT WSD PDL DEX
394 378 318 1.08 1.08 295
+6STR from minuets
I provided DEX, because Utu grip was used.
Origin 3000TP no neck
max 42964
min 40913
3000TP with fotia neck +0.1fTP
max 43430
min 41333
Marginal increase over 5% difference between lowest and highest is from minuets dropping before I reapplied it.
3000TP with STR/INT+39 and fotia neck
max 44488
min 42587
1000TP
max 14237
min 13748
I hope you will provide calculations based on that Data, because you for sure wasn't suggesting it should be included only for the look right?
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Ramuh.Austar
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2023-07-23 14:33:42
your 3K fTP would be wrong, but the mods line up with.
(x + 25/256) * y = 41333, x * y = 40913
would come out to 204565/21504 for fTP at 3K, which is ~9.5
I don't know what your fSTR is, but assuming it's capped (off 2-3 base damage,) it would line up with 60% STR and 60% INT and 10% DEX from Utu.
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By SimonSes 2023-07-23 15:10:48
your 3K fTP would be wrong, but the mods line up with.
(x + 25/256) * y = 41333, x * y = 40913
would come out to 204565/21504 for fTP at 3K, which is ~9.5
I don't know what your fSTR is, but assuming it's capped (off 2-3 base damage,) it would line up with 60% STR and 60% INT and 10% DEX from Utu.
Thank you. I keep forgetting it's not 0.1 but 25/256 and also for some reason I took difference between avg between min/max with and without Fotia, instead of difference between min values. Corrected on bgwiki.
Ramuh.Austar
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Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2023-07-23 15:15:21
i wouldn't be surprised if all of the mods are 60/60 using the relevant stats that are on the weapons. follows similar patterns they have used in the past with relics/mythics/empyreans
By SimonSes 2023-07-23 15:26:04
i wouldn't be surprised if all of the mods are 60/60 using the relevant stats that are on the weapons. follows similar patterns they have used in the past with relics/mythics/empyreans
Its not. Some weapons has 3 stats (dagger, axe for example,)
Also from limited testing with dagger that I witnessed WSC on the dagger is terribly low, like 20% of each, but fTP is ridiculously high like 20+ but it requires retesting. I will have dagger soon (unless I change my mind :P), so I might sacrifice another run for tests.
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-07-23 16:10:10
Which means around ~12.23% base and ~1.345% per each +1
Wonder why they said it capped at 5% when they gave the 900 skill value in that video, Given it was the only prime effect they actually gave info on didn't expect them to give the wrong info.
Quote: - Effect value for physical damage limit is 1-5%, varies by skill.
- Effect time 120 seconds.
By SimonSes 2023-07-23 18:33:00
No idea, only explanation would be that it's 8.23%-12.23% based on skill, so skill is adding 1-5% to base 7.23%
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-07-23 18:57:54
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Now that there are a few stage 4s in the world, is there any testing that's been done to figure out what the fTP/WSC values are on these WS?
SimonSes did testing on The scythe WS "Origin" which is already been updated on bgwiki.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Origin
How reliable is the data coming from Stage 3 weapons coming from mobs we don't know the stats for though?
The only stat that matters at all is VIT, so you know if you cap fSTR or not (but those leeches are lvl 119 or 120, they have maybe 200VIT), but even then several points of fSTR are maybe 1% of total base damage, so it would barely change any results.
Lv119 Abject Leech - 184VIT
Lv119 Abject Hecteye - 189VIT
Lv134 Esurient Slug - 311VIT
By K123 2023-07-23 19:20:18
Aria of Passion
+2 (base stage3): 15% (14.9235474)
+5 (with neck): 19% (1.189602446)
Which means around ~12.23% base and ~1.345% per each +1
Idk how to update bgwiki for Aria of Passion, songs seems to use some container.
EDIT: In case someone will question it because no data..
No Aria RA: 1635
Aria+2 RA: 1879
Aria+5 RA: 1945
Obviously same target, same gear, no other PDL. So what will it be at +7 (stage 5 and neck)?
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Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-07-23 19:24:36
what is 1.345 times 7 plus 12.23
By Foxfire 2023-07-23 20:59:55
By K123 2023-07-24 14:18:12
Valefor.Prothescar said: » 1.345 times 7 plus 12.23 21.65
How much is Geomancy nerfed in Sortie? Is Indi-Frailty nerfed?
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-07-24 16:05:32
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Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
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Posts: 6184
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2023-07-25 04:14:13
Aria of Passion
+2 (base stage3): 15% (14.9235474)
+5 (with neck): 19% (1.189602446)
Which means around ~12.23% base and ~1.345% per each +1
Idk how to update bgwiki for Aria of Passion, songs seems to use some container.
EDIT: In case someone will question it because no data..
No Aria RA: 1635
Aria+2 RA: 1879
Aria+5 RA: 1945
Obviously same target, same gear, no other PDL.
12.23% is a weird amount. Looks like Aria +2 was +15% and +5 was +19%, which is 1% off of expected for the expected 1% per +1.
Overall, everything is higher than expected. I wonder if they did something goofy like gave the song a CHR mod.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2023-07-25 09:36:00
Aria of Passion
+2 (base stage3): 15% (14.9235474)
+5 (with neck): 19% (1.189602446)
Which means around ~12.23% base and ~1.345% per each +1
Idk how to update bgwiki for Aria of Passion, songs seems to use some container.
EDIT: In case someone will question it because no data..
No Aria RA: 1635
Aria+2 RA: 1879
Aria+5 RA: 1945
Obviously same target, same gear, no other PDL.
12.23% is a weird amount. Looks like Aria +2 was +15% and +5 was +19%, which is 1% off of expected for the expected 1% per +1.
Overall, everything is higher than expected. I wonder if they did something goofy like gave the song a CHR mod.
I recently obtained the stage 4 horn, meaning I can actually test it properly now. I'll check to see if there is any validity to the CHR component. I just need a guinea pig on Bahamut.
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2023-07-25 10:09:05
Aria of Passion
+2 (base stage3): 15% (14.9235474)
+5 (with neck): 19% (1.189602446)
Which means around ~12.23% base and ~1.345% per each +1
Idk how to update bgwiki for Aria of Passion, songs seems to use some container.
EDIT: In case someone will question it because no data..
No Aria RA: 1635
Aria+2 RA: 1879
Aria+5 RA: 1945
Obviously same target, same gear, no other PDL.
12.23% is a weird amount. Looks like Aria +2 was +15% and +5 was +19%, which is 1% off of expected for the expected 1% per +1.
Overall, everything is higher than expected. I wonder if they did something goofy like gave the song a CHR mod.
SimonSes/Baniak and I just did a test with the stage 4.
No Aria RA: 1816
Aria+3 RA: 2106
Aria+6 RA: 2179
So, that gives us the following:
+2 = ~+15%
+3 = ~+16%
+5 = ~+19%
+6 = ~+20%
We would need someone with a Stage 3 and an NQ Moonbow to get the +4 unless you want to wait a few months, but clearly there is an inconsistency in there from +3 to +5. Also, CHR seems to have no bearing on the result.
Edit: I was just reminded about Brioso Whistle for +1. I might try that....
By Sempersupra 2023-07-27 11:06:33
With all the stage 3 and 4 prime weapons in the wild is there any clear winners on what seems to be bring a job to next level. Would love to hear what others opinions are.
I was really hoping the shield was going to be awesome but looking at the stats not even sure were this would fit in the current REMA rotation.
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Posts: 1781
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-07-27 11:17:28
Not at all implying this is the only answer, but considering the climb associated with them I'm approaching a Prime as more of a "fun" choice rather than something that 8-12 months from now will make a job "good", or "next level". Plus, I highly doubt in the current system I'll do more than 1, so the choice is definitely going to be a trophy more than a beatstick.
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Let's keep this thread solely for sharing information on the new prime weaponskills; WS numbers/sceenshots, hypothetical discussions on WS properties, such as stat mods and fTP, gear sets and buffs/debuffs used etc.
No discussions/comments on how much people hate sortie, why weapon requirements suck etc.
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