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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Shiva.Flowen
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 526
By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-09 13:03:45
Let's keep this thread solely for sharing information on the new prime weaponskills; WS numbers/sceenshots, hypothetical discussions on WS properties, such as stat mods and fTP, gear sets and buffs/debuffs used etc.
No discussions/comments on how much people hate sortie, why weapon requirements suck etc.
Shiva.Flowen
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 526
By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-09 13:19:01
Staff/Oshala below - Thank you Mischief:
Preliminary testing for Oshala (Prime Staff WS) - not much here as we were also doing a normal-ish Sortie run to see if anything changed, but it's more than nothing:
WS set used for testing (mostly slapped together from what I already had): ItemSet 391512
Nyame is R30, Lugh's is just my Omniscience cape (MND/WSD). Food was Stewpot.
3k TP, Fury/Frailty only:
3k TP, Fury/Frailty, Crooked 4 Chaos Roll, 2-step Skillchain:
Same buffs as above, ~1500-ish TP into ~1200-ish:
Keep in mind this is a Physical Staff Weaponskill being done by a SCH. And, of course, being a one-hit physical Weapon Skill, it can miss. Aftermath effect still procs if it misses.
Aftermath effect seemed to boost magic damage by ~7-8% or so at AM3, lower effect at lower levels. It follows Relic Aftermath rules for duration (1 minute at 1k TP, 3 minutes at 3k TP), but it has three levels like Mythic.
There was no difference in Gallimaufry rate with Opashoro on compared to other characters or other runs, and no visible difference in boss AI, though we didn't do D/H/Aminon. I got Hexahedrite from Gartell, everyone else did not.
Great Katana/Tachi: Mumei below - Thank you Ejiin:
Very impressed/happy with Mumei damage so far. Did some limited tests and seems stronger than R15 Masa Fudo.
BoG/EA Frailty/Indi-Fury/Chaos/Dia2/Min5/Marcato Honor
WS gear used for Fudo and Mumei:
3000TP R15 Masa Fudo:
3000TP Mumei on the same Acuex:
3000TP Mumei with AM3 up on another Acuex to show when AM3 applies:
2249TP Mumei with AM3 up:
Note that Acuex take -12.5% damage to slashing, which we realized after the fact.
AM3 did not overwrite/refresh itself.
AM applies on the activating WS.
Can confirm Mumei multistep dark will still heal bosses
More Mumei:
- more Mumei - Thank you Mewtwo:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion/14/#3669608
Scythe/Origin below - Thank you Aramith & Disclai:
Aramith9 posted a video using the scythe against A boss:
YouTube Video Placeholder - more Scythe - Thank you Samuraiking & SimonSes:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion/9/#3668236
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion/13/#3669039
fTP testing - Thank you SimonSes: Ok sacrificed a run and tested Origin
Test Methodology: Fotia for fTP, Absorb-INT for WSC
1000 fTP: ~3.0
3000 fTP: ~9.225
WSC: 60%STR 60%INT
No time to test 2000TP. I might sacrifice another 5min in the next run to get that last detail.
Great Axe/Disaster below - Thank you Ahlen:
Soul voice ARIA / attack cap no etudes
[20:58:39] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:58:39] Aita takes 96478 points of damage.
[20:58:46] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:58:46] Aita takes 68146 points of damage.
[20:58:50] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:58:50] Aita takes 57987 points of damage.
[20:58:51] Pherixa uses Mighty Strikes.
[20:58:55] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:58:55] Aita takes 44417 points of damage.
[20:59:01] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:59:01] Aita takes 83944 points of damage.
[20:59:07] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:59:07] Aita takes 80605 points of damage.
[20:59:11] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:59:11] Aita takes 81292 points of damage.
[20:59:16] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:59:16] Aita takes 39645 points of damage.
[20:59:20] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[20:59:20] Aita takes 36725 points of damage.
[21:03:15] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:03:15] The Demisang Deleterious takes 41783 points of damage.
[21:03:22] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:03:22] The Demisang Deleterious takes 52979 points of damage.
[21:04:43] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:04:43] The Demisang Warrior takes 52924 points of damage.
[21:04:52] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:04:52] The Demisang Warrior takes 49359 points of damage.
[21:05:23] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:05:23] The Demisang Monk takes 79796 points of damage.
[21:05:32] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:05:32] The Demisang Monk takes 50082 points of damage.
Soul voice songs down----------------
Normal Aria should be attack cap on bosses
[21:11:24] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:11:24] Degei takes 83772 points of damage.
[21:11:32] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:11:32] Degei takes 70374 points of damage.
[21:11:40] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:11:40] Degei takes 64215 points of damage.
[21:15:33] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:15:33] The Cachaemic Bhoot takes 20130 points of damage.
[21:15:38] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:15:38] The Cachaemic Bhoot takes 41875 points of damage.
[21:15:43] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:15:43] The Cachaemic Bhoot takes 40019 points of damage.
[21:15:53] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:15:53] The Cachaemic Ghoul takes 47974 points of damage.
[21:15:59] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:15:59] The Cachaemic Ghoul takes 61021 points of damage.
[21:20:16] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:20:16] Skomora takes 62032 points of damage.
[21:20:23] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:20:23] Skomora takes 65333 points of damage.
[21:20:29] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:20:29] Skomora takes 66072 points of damage.
[21:25:25] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:25:25] The Biune Porxie takes 74514 points of damage.
[21:27:37] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:27:37] The Abject Acuex takes 61529 points of damage.
[21:27:43] Pherixa uses Disaster.
[21:27:43] The Abject Acuex takes 41286 points of damage.
Sword/Imperator below - Thank you Ahlen: [00:57:19] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[00:57:19] The Demisang Red Mage takes 33412 points of damage.
[00:57:25] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[00:57:25] The Demisang Red Mage takes 29884 points of damage.
[00:57:44] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[00:57:44] The Demisang Black Mage takes 36862 points of damage.
[00:58:14] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[00:58:14] The Demisang White Mage takes 39503 points of damage.
[00:59:58] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[00:59:58] Degei takes 52362 points of damage.
[01:00:14] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:00:14] Degei takes 29823 points of damage.
[01:00:21] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:00:21] Degei takes 23455 points of damage.
[01:00:30] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:00:30] Degei takes 26174 points of damage.
[01:03:53] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:03:53] The Cachaemic Bhoot takes 17512 points of damage.
[01:04:01] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:04:01] The Cachaemic Bhoot takes 27286 points of damage.
[01:04:06] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:04:06] The Cachaemic Bhoot takes 20504 points of damage.
[01:05:53] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:05:53] The Cachaemic Ghoul takes 26726 points of damage.
[01:06:04] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:06:04] The Cachaemic Ghoul takes 21020 points of damage.
[01:06:13] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:06:13] The Cachaemic Ghoul takes 25941 points of damage.
[01:07:57] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:07:57] Skomora takes 28719 points of damage.
[01:08:05] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:08:05] Skomora takes 39113 points of damage.
[01:11:39] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:11:39] The Biune Umbril takes 18997 points of damage.
[01:11:46] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:11:46] The Biune Umbril takes 19441 points of damage.
[01:12:17] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:12:17] The Biune Umbril takes 15344 points of damage.
[01:12:53] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:12:53] The Biune Umbril takes 25645 points of damage.
[01:13:00] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:13:00] The Biune Umbril takes 17692 points of damage.
[01:13:45] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:13:45] The Biune Porxie takes 60692 points of damage.
[01:16:44] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:16:44] Leshonn takes 48007 points of damage.
[01:16:52] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:16:52] Leshonn takes 44558 points of damage.
[01:16:57] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:16:57] Leshonn takes 45901 points of damage.
[01:17:07] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:17:07] Leshonn takes 46926 points of damage.
[01:20:52] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:20:52] The Abject Acuex takes 30657 points of damage.
[01:20:57] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:20:57] The Abject Acuex takes 29826 points of damage.
[01:47:05] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:47:05] Gartell takes 40616 points of damage.
[01:47:15] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:47:15] Gartell takes 36731 points of damage.
[01:47:24] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:47:24] Gartell takes 31547 points of damage.
[01:47:32] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:47:32] Gartell takes 30207 points of damage.
[01:47:39] Ahlen uses Imperator.
[01:47:39] Gartell takes 27586 points of damage.
I was attack starved till ~leshonn and gartell I should have been close to attack cap (on gartell) unless the one chokehold I got hit by removed something like chaos roll (log doesnt show what he absorbs from you)
On gartell we had dia 3 + light shot + armor break + 5x box step SV honor march 3 minuet 1 madrigal
I was gearing imperator for dex it might be mind focused so maybe next run ill do gain mnd / use mind cape
Gun/Terminus below - Thank you Ahlen:
[23:13:07] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:07] Aita takes 39816 points of damage.
[23:13:12] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:12] Aita takes 39120 points of damage.
[23:13:18] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:18] Aita takes 36630 points of damage.
[23:13:23] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:23] Aita takes 30943 points of damage.
[23:13:29] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:29] Aita takes 32798 points of damage.
[23:13:35] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:35] Aita takes 32500 points of damage.
[23:13:40] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:13:40] Aita takes 42552 points of damage.
[23:15:07] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:15:07] The Haughty Ranger takes 21795 points of damage.
[23:15:12] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:15:12] The Haughty Ranger takes 18030 points of damage.
[23:15:22] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:15:22] The Haughty Ranger takes 35064 points of damage.
[23:15:30] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:15:30] The Haughty Ranger takes 31902 points of damage.
[23:15:38] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:15:38] The Haughty Samurai takes 47728 points of damage.
[23:22:19] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:22:19] The Demisang White Mage takes 30364 points of damage.
[23:22:33] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:22:33] The Demisang Warrior takes 16160 points of damage.
[23:26:55] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:26:55] The Demisang Thief takes 21060 points of damage.
[23:29:52] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:29:52] Degei takes 32515 points of damage.
[23:30:01] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:30:01] Degei takes 33536 points of damage.
[23:30:07] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:30:07] Degei takes 44401 points of damage.
[23:30:14] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:30:14] Degei takes 45784 points of damage.
[23:38:20] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:38:20] Skomora takes 48081 points of damage.
[23:38:26] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:38:26] Skomora takes 63822 points of damage.
[23:38:34] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:38:34] Skomora takes 49710 points of damage.
[23:38:37] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:38:37] Skomora takes 50425 points of damage.
[23:43:18] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:43:18] The Gyvewrapped Naraka takes 9508 points of damage.
[23:43:25] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:43:25] The Gyvewrapped Naraka takes 12192 points of damage.
[23:43:47] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:43:47] The Gyvewrapped Naraka takes 12424 points of damage.
[23:43:54] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:43:54] The Gyvewrapped Naraka takes 12211 points of damage.
[23:44:04] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:44:04] The Gyvewrapped Naraka takes 14556 points of damage.
[23:48:50] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:48:50] Triboulex takes 14374 points of damage.
[23:49:00] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:49:00] Triboulex takes 54036 points of damage.
[23:49:06] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:49:06] Triboulex takes 57689 points of damage.
[23:49:13] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:49:13] Triboulex takes 30624 points of damage.
[23:49:21] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:49:21] Triboulex takes 36019 points of damage.
[23:49:25] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:49:25] Triboulex takes 29703 points of damage.
[23:55:45] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:55:45] Ghatjot takes 72620 points of damage.
[23:55:52] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:55:52] Ghatjot takes 61073 points of damage.
[23:58:24] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[23:58:24] The Abject Obdella takes 30657 points of damage.
[00:02:53] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[00:02:53] Dhartok takes 56774 points of damage.
[00:03:00] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[00:03:00] Dhartok takes 44960 points of damage.
[00:03:06] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[00:03:06] Dhartok takes 38756 points of damage.
[00:03:12] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[00:03:12] Dhartok takes 44838 points of damage.
[00:03:18] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[00:03:18] Dhartok takes 50007 points of damage.
[00:03:25] Kiratal uses Terminus.
[00:03:25] Dhartok takes 55305 points of damage.
For aita I had a potent frost on me nearly the whole time so it seems to have some agi scaling for sure because I had max buffs / debuffs for him (for terminus)
Another note for those WS assume every boss I had tp bonus 700 from warcry 190 from body 200 from ear and didnt hold TP (except ghatjot where I did a 3k)
I was likely attack capped on all bosses.
Only Aita /trib / ghatjot /dhartok I had soulvoice aria.
A lot of the trash mobs I wasn't attack cap and didn't use warcry.
Great Sword/Fimbulvetr below - Thank you Velner:
So we didn't do proper testing tonight because we're focused on full clearing the zone. But here are some numbers from the bosses that are kind of crazy. These bosses all are 2 hour songs (Aita is 2x Minuet, 2x March, 1x Madrgal; others are 3x Minuet, 1x Madrigal, 1x Honor March) with Chaos/Sam roll. Aita has Dia III and Box Step and the others have Armor Break/Dia III/Box Step. We don't use GEO so no Fury/Frailty.
For reference, I never hit 70k+ with Torcleaver (66k is about the highest) and on Gartell I usually use Anguta where Cross Reaper tops out at around 55-60k (with occasional 70ks)
I know this isn't proper testing but my preliminary experience tells me these Weapons/Weaponskills absolutely clap.
Got Fimbulvetr up to 97k on Aita with no GEO. Not sure if that's any good, but it felt ok. Also had a couple 95ks in there on the same encounter.
Horn/Aria of Passion - Thanks to many for calling out whether or not it was on for their numbers, and Ravael/SimonSes for testing:
Song PDL
+2 = ~+15%
+3 = ~+16%
+5 = ~+19%
+6 = ~+20%
PDL is doubled under SV.
- Aria on savage blade, thank you Samuraiking: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion/9/#3668236
Dagger/Ruthless Stroke below - Thank you Skald & SimonSes:
This is super buffed to the teeth, DNC/drg. Actual useful info and math things from Simon be here soon.
It is ultra front loaded like savage blade.
Ok so the data we gathered suggest very low WSC and very high fTP at 3000. Im talking about something like 20% DEX/AGI/CHR and 20+ http://fTP.
3000TP Ruthless first hit only were avg 24559 spread here was only 3%, so it could be slightly less in reality
3000TP with 4 additional hits (3main hand and one with Cento) were 28223
This means 4.0 fTP from 3 additional hits were around 4k damage total. If you take away base damage of the weapon and unfortunately ignore fSTR (because we dont know specific value here, but it was low or neutral probably. Either way it wouldnt change the conclusion by much anyway), then we would need only ~203 base damage from WSC (and thats assuming PDL aftermath is only 5%), which is very low and based on your stats would only require 20% DEX/AGI/CHR. This also mean 1.0fTP with main hand is like ~1200, which puts first hit fTP at 3000TP at 20.
Polearm/Diarmuid below - Thank you Jabrolout:
Bismarck.Jabrolout said: »Not the best testing, but here are some numbers with Gae Buide in sortie. Focused a bit more on keeping TP closer to 3k on Leshonn. Aita fell off the rails a little quick on this run.
Degei SV marchx2, minuet x2, Aria
Non SV on the rest HM,minuet, madrigal, aria
Dia III, angon, box step on all enemies
[Jabrolout] ¨ Degei: Diarmuid 76099
---------------- TP 346 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Degei: Diarmuid 57619
---------------- TP 274 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Degei: Diarmuid 65749
---------------- TP 310 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Degei: Diarmuid 70173
---------------- TP 377 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Leshonn: Diarmuid 90305
---------------- TP 308 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Leshonn: Diarmuid 93838
---------------- TP 292 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Leshonn: Diarmuid 73120
---------------- TP 276 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Leshonn: Diarmuid 56797
---------------- TP 340 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Aita: Diarmuid 54276
---------------- TP 292 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Aita: Diarmuid 46156
---------------- TP 353 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Aita: Diarmuid 42609
---------------- TP 464 ----------------
Set used:
ItemSet 391844
Bismarck.Jabrolout said: »Yeah, massive difference when gearing for straight wsd on Diarmuid at least. Was aiming to ws between 2000-2500 tp after putting up am3. Full buffs for all of these fights.
[Jabrolout] ¨ Aita: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 264 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Triboulex: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 387 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Triboulex: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 218 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Triboulex: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 202 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Triboulex: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 233 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Triboulex: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 341 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Gartell: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 245 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Gartell: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 230 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Gartell: Diarmuid 87532
---------------- TP 283 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Gartell: Diarmuid 99999
---------------- TP 275 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Gartell: Diarmuid 92619
---------------- TP 257 ----------------
[Jabrolout] ¨ Gartell: Diarmuid 86734
---------------- TP 225 ----------------
Bow/Sarv below - Thank you Demhar:
Pinaka:
Sarv>Sarv>Sarv = Darkness
Recorded the entire Sortie run, but unfortunately the file ended up corrupted with missing frames. I was able to save some screenshots from it. There was a lot more data that got lost, including Sarv dmg against Acuex mobs at 3k 2k 1k, Savage Blade with & without AM3 respectively. I am going to post only the data I can back up with screenshots and memory.
On Ghatjot:
RNG ML31/NIN - With max buffs: SV/Bolster/Crooked Chaos/Dia2/Boost STR
Rattk. Cap:
Velocity Shot: YES
Hover Shot: 4
True Shot: YES
TP:3000
Note: Would have most likely hit 99k without Hover Shot
Velocity Shot: YES
Hover Shot: 25
True Shot: YES
TP:1200~
I did use other WS’s at HS25+TS to see if they beat Sarv with AM3 boost and from memory the numbers roughly:
Jishnu's Radiance = ~40k
Refulgent Arrow = ~70k
Empyreal Arrow= ~80k
Sarv True Shot Set:
Note: No TP Bonus pieces for testing reasons & Nyame R25
We moved on to Demisang monsters which in this case I was using Ternion Dagger +1R15+KC and spamming Sarv from melee distance. After spamming so many of them at 1k 2k 3k with regular buffs the numbers seemed consistent. Although Demisang mobs do get bunch of buffs on them.
Velocity Shot: NO
Hover Shot: 0
True Shot: NO
1k TP was in 30ks
2k TP was in 50ks
3k TP (no screenshot on this one but highest I got was ~70k)
Note: AM3 PDL+ was applied to Savage Blades. At 3k TP it went from 65-70k to 75-80k+ on Demisang monsters with regular songs+chaos+furry/frailty. I wish the recordings were working to go over it with more accurate data.
In conclusion: From this short 1hr experience, Sarv is very strong. The weapon is still at stage 3 which means it has much room to get better. The ability to hit cap dmg by just utilizing True Shot and not needing Hover Shot opens back up the “classic” spam ranger stance. With Hover Shot and True Shot combined hitting cap damage under 1.5k tp (with max buffs) with the self-darkness skillchain opens alternative strong options. Hopefully, there will be another go at this coming soon with actual video. Sarv Video from Demhar: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion/16/#3670064
Katana/Zesho Meppo below - Thank you Prothescar:
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Katana sucks and I want my Galli back
-ML18 NIN/DNC (to prevent trait interference from subjob)
-Capped attack (Fury, Frailty, Chaos, Dia III, Box Step 5, Red Curry Bun)
-Abject Acuex used for every test, stat down and drown removed before every WS
3000TP w/ TP Bonus -> WSD swaps and Kunimitsu offhand:
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[47148]]
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[49575]]
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[47483]]
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[47370]]
>>> Current TP = 2843 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[41935]]
ItemSet 391927
*Was set to swap Mpaca head to Nyame helm and Moonshade Earring to Ishvara earring @ 3000TP; Hattori earring would be better than Ishvara in this case.
**Kentarch would be better than Chiner but I don't have that and wasn't gonna drop 10m on it just for this. Regal Ring probably comparable to or better than Epa but it is what it is.
***Andartia is 30STR/20ACC/20ATK/10WSD. Don't have a WSD DEX back for NIN.
****All of the odyssey gear is R25 besides Coiste which is R30.
1000~2000TP w/ TP Bonus Offhand:
>>> Current TP = 3000 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[40212]]
>>> Current TP = 1401 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[40651]]
>>> Current TP = 1092 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[33766]]
>>> Current TP = 1475 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[36714]]
>>> Current TP = 2249 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[40702]]
>>> Current TP = 1373 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[42439]]
>>> Current TP = 1560 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[40964]]
>>> Current TP = 1711 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[40912]]
>>> Current TP = 1593 <<<
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo <Abject・Acuex>
[Prothescar] Zesho Meppo on <Abject・Acuex> [[37196]]
ItemSet 391927
*Just sub in TP Bonus OH and this is what was used. WSD gear swaps weren't in play here. Would have benefited a couple of these.
Probably have enough test set data to get a general idea of fTP but not enough to get a 100% number.
Numbers w/ test set (no Fotia):
19646 3000
19777 3000
19884 3000
19902 3000
19975 3000
19994 3000
20048 3000
20052 3000
20061 3000
20221 3000
20595 3000
20599 3000
Numbers w/ test set (Fotia):
19732 3000
19945 3000
20120 3000
20151 3000
20204 3000
20295 3000
20433 3000
ItemSet 391928
*Designed to minimize variables. 0% Multiattack, 0% WSD, 0% additional PDL.
**Rawhide Gloves +10DEX +7STR +7INT
***Andartia Mantle 20DEX/30ACC/20ATK/10STP
****Fotia Gorget in place of Caro Necklace for Fotia tests
I'll run these after I'm done with my nightly duties if no one else does it first.
Fists/Maru Kala below - Thank you Badstreak:
Bahamut.Badstreak said: »After today's run I'd say Maru Kala (H2H) is pretty much identical to the Katana post above. 1000-2000 TP was around 40k, while 3000 TP was pretty consistent 60k with very similar set that I posted a page back.
Overall Maru Kala appears to be worse than Victory Smite, except that the weapon is pretty good at boosting the damage of Victory Smite thanks to the Crit Rate and PDL aftermath.
I don't think its base stats put it ahead of Verethragna, but maybe at higher stages???
On the plus adding a strong distortion option really did open up monk skill chains. An easy 4 step: Maru Kala > Shijin Spiral > Smite > Smite is actually better than previous options we had. Using Maru Kala as a skill chain option or to put up AM felt like the right way to use it, it's not designed to replace anything we had before. Spamming it is probably not the right way to use it.
Bahamut.Badstreak said: »Had my first test run with Varga Purnikawa and using Maru Kala.
Seeing all these big numbers made me excited, so far only one person posted an underbuffed sample of Maru Kala damage which looked very low...
Turns out that's not coincidence. Unless I'm missing something, which is hopefully the case, it is extremely weak.
Was a full melee run (ABCGE) with chaos roll, minuets (SV for G), indi fury, berserk, impetus, etc. Average damage for Maru was 25k. The highest spike was 42-45k. In the same conditions with Verethragna R15, victory smite is in the 55k-80k range.
Capped impetus hits were ~2600 while for Vere's it's around ~2300, not including AM3 hits which can spike to 7700.
Aftermath Info - Thank you Prothescar:
1-hander (tested with axe) Valefor.Prothescar said: »Aftermath information:
Tests done by shooting with capped attack as outlined earlier in the thread.
1000tp: 2% PDL for 60s
2000tp: 5% PDL for 120s
3000tp: 8% PDL for 180s
Scales between each breakpoint like Mythic AM. E.x.: 1611tp produced a 3% PDL aftermath.
Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-06-09 14:20:29
Bahamut.Unagihito said: »Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »So does the prime Axe pet Level + affect offhand?
It does.
That was the only other piece I saw from the other thread that was on topic for this thread. And I didn't see any proof to verify it, which I'm totally not asking for at this point. I can believe it for now and it will get verified later on other 1h weapons.
The Dagger video is a great example why knowing how to test is important. It really only showed off that you could make light with the dagger at low tp. No values for mid or high tp.
I *assume* all the face stats will work in the offhand if this is true. ASSUMPTION.
[+]
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By Bahamut.Unagihito 2023-06-09 15:42:42
I was chatting with Falkirk in DMs about the axe until I had a chance to actually test the WS but here's some excepts:
Quote: I'm only ML40 but with the Dire Jug slug:
+1
acc 1306 atk 794
eva 904 def 1514
+2
acc 1344 atk 816
eva 934 def 1558
+3
acc 1356 atk 840
eva 965 def 1608
relic gloves/sortie earring/empy feet equipped.
Swapped out the earring/feet for the axe and the numbers stayed the same.
The axe gives +1 level while in the offhand.
Yeah, the STR/DEX added to the character sheet while it was added in the offhand.
I lost 5 acc swapping hands with Spalirisos/Ikenga's Axe R30 because the Spalrisos has 5 more axe skill, but everything else stayed the same.
So I'd guess Crit would work in the offhand too.
I'll probably report in when I get a chance to test the WS a little.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-09 16:12:59
In the interest of hopefully getting usable data from people who might be unaware because this is your first time doing anything like this, going to quote myself with the guidelines on how to harvest basic information
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Was a discussion in discord about monster VIT which triggered me to go find the VIT of a couple Sortie mobs, which will be useful info whenever we get the Stage3 weapons to test for their stat values.
I tested Abject Leeches (good for piercing) and Abject Hecteye (good for slashing+piercing). Nothing for blunt/h2h, might get something for those another time. Would have to be something like fomors or pixies. Have data on slugs too but I need to check something else before I commit to those. I'll list them for now though.
Lv119 Abject Leech - 184VIT
228STR, Fomalhaut (unaugmented) 167D, Chrono Bullet 300D
1718 Damage
1718/3.5 - 467 = 24
24 * 2 = 48
48 - 4 = 44
228 - 44 = 184
Abject Leech has around 184VIT
229STR, Fomalhaut (unaugmented) 167D, Chrono Bullet 300D
1722 Damage
1722/3.5 - 467 = 25
25 * 2 = 50
50 - 4 = 46
229 - 46 = 183
Abject Leech has 183VIT
Lv119 Abject Hecteye - 189VIT
228STR, Fomalhaut (unaugmented) 167D, Chrono Bullet 300D
1708 Damage
1708/3.5 - 467 = 21
21 * 2 = 42
42 - 4 = 38
228 - 38 = 190
Abject Hecteye has around 190VIT
229STR, Fomalhaut (unaugmented) 167D, Chrono Bullet 300D
1711 Damage
1711/3.5 - 467 = 22
22 * 2 = 44
44 - 4 = 40
229 - 40 = 189
Abject Hecteye has 189VIT
Lv134 Esurient Slug - 311VIT
349STR, Fomalhaut (unaugmented) 167D, Chrono Bullet 300D
1708 Damage
1708/3.5 - 467 = 21
21 * 2 = 42
42 - 4 = 38
349 - 38 = 311
Esurient Slug has around 311 VIT
350STR also hit for 1708, no increase in fSTR.
351STR, Fomalhaut (unaugmented) 167D, Chrono Bullet 300D
1711 Damage
1711/3.5 - 467 = 22
22 * 2 = 44
44 - 4 = 40
351 - 40 = 311
Esurient Slug has around 311VIT
Things to consider for aspiring testers:
-Sortie is a generally unfriendly test environment due to the time limit.
-There is no easy way to test for fTP replication in Sortie. We can fudge it by manipulating ACC so that the first hit often misses but getting something to happen like only 1 of the last 3 hits landing would be hard. Much easier when you can go hit a NIN mob.
-Multihit weaponskill testing will be complicated because of the last point. We can't say whether fTP replicates or not, therefor we can't know specific fTP of each hit without spending a lot of plates. Getting the first hit fTP and full WS fTP would be 'easier' but still a pain in the ***.
-What Sortie will be good for is getting general data such as WS mods (unlikely to get exact WSC but will know what affects which WS at least) and a general idea of http://fTP. For ranged and single hit melee WS we can get much closer to an accurate set of values assuming the people testing are properly documenting all of the necessary information so that we can pool results into bigger sample sets.
What you'll need as a tester if you want precise numbers:
-Ruspix Plates to spare.
-Patience, and a lot of it.
-The ability to, without uncertainty, cap attack on your target mob for your job. For most jobs on ground floor enemies this means having a GEO to go with you for Frailty+Fury. For higher PDL jobs you likely need a bit more than that, and for basement mobs you'd need more support such as a BLU, and/or COR, and/or BRD, etc. especially for high PDL jobs.
-Stat flexibility. You want to be able to adjust your stats by a bit at a time to determine and pinpoint WSC values. Pieces of gear that adjust more than 1 stat can potentially be unreliable because you're affecting more than 1 component of WSC at a time on WSs that have more than 1 stat that affects its WSC. Accessories are usually the easiest pieces to use for this, but a lot of them can be tough to source.
-Good work ethic. Your data is meaningless if you can't document everything properly. Keeping track of your stats, buffs, debuffs, etc. can be important to getting a clear idea of what's happening with a WS. Keeping accurate accounting of your damage numbers, TP values, etc. is also very important. If your data can't be confidently tracked and mathed out then it is useless. These weaponskills could also be potentially complicated by other things such as ratio bonuses and the PDL aftermath, making healthy data even more important.
The slug stats ended up being fine btw.
For a general idea on how things work a large sample size isn't going to be necessary. For the exact mechanics of every ws, however, it will take a relatively significant investment of time and due to people likely not wanting to waste plates on this, I personally don't expect to see that kind of data until stage 4.
[+]
By Veydal1 2023-06-09 16:23:16
...
The Dagger video is a great example why knowing how to test is important. It really only showed off that you could make light with the dagger at low tp. No values for mid or high tp.
I *assume* all the face stats will work in the offhand if this is true. ASSUMPTION.
Would you mind sharing the link to the video for dagger please?
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-09 16:26:19
https://twitter.com/ff11377/status/1666790406963757057
Since it needs to be stated: please don't use this video as an indication of the power of the weaponskill under normal circumstances. You're looking at someone throwing out a few weaponskills as they're about to be kicked out of the zone at the end of their run, not a serious attempt at showcasing the weapon.
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By Asura.Melliny 2023-06-09 16:33:17
I posted this in the other thread but it bears mentioning here as well. A few things I noticed from watching that video.
His pDIF ratio is very low. His melee hits range from 40-110, with the average sitting around 80. For comparison, at capped pDIF Twashtar does around 550-650 damage per hit.
His accuracy is too low for the mob he's fighting. You can see the misses in the chat log. His TP returns from the four weaponskills were 235, 145, 217, and 199, so he's missing swings, and in most cases more than one.
He's only showing us weaponskill numbers from the 1250-1350 range. We know that merciless strike scales with TP, so there's a good chance the damage could scale harder at the 2k and 3k anchor tier
Under those conditions the damage numbers in that video are actually quite high, and we never saw what numbers a 2k or 3k weaponskill would have produced. Merciless strike appears to have a lot of potential.
By RadialArcana 2023-06-09 18:54:20
Are the weapon skills visually identical to relic?
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-09 19:07:28
That part you can see in the video. Yes they are
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2023-06-09 21:50:59
I have the horn, but it may be several days before my group gets around to doing an actual testing run. For those who are more in the know than I am, are there any specific conditions you would like to see tested for the Aria of Passion song?
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By Asura.Volteczero 2023-06-09 22:30:53
One thing that I would like to see tested is if any of the prime WS has a static enmity generation like namas arrow or coronach. I should get my weapon tomorrow, if no one tested it by then.
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By Asura.Melliny 2023-06-09 23:07:32
That was something I wanted to see tested with the gun and bow as well. If the weaponskills attached to them are as powerful as they seem like they're going to be, then spamming them in tandem is a really quick way to get yourself killed. There is a reason rangers are hesitant to switch from annihalator to gandiva too early against arrebati. If they DO come with some form of enmity suppression mechanics though... well. I think I know which weapons I'm most interest in building first. Pinga is the one that interests me most because you can fire it off from true shot range, but I'd take an enmity control weaponskill on Earp too.
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By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-10 00:20:59
One thing that I would like to see tested is if any of the prime WS has a static enmity generation like namas arrow or coronach. I should get my weapon tomorrow, if no one tested it by then.
I've been thinking this too. I am leaning towards the gun, but would love to see bow back in good shape outside am3 dmg. Excited to see your results!
[+]
Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-10 00:46:59
I have the horn, but it may be several days before my group gets around to doing an actual testing run. For those who are more in the know than I am, are there any specific conditions you would like to see tested for the Aria of Passion song?
Grats! And thanks for offering this info.
Something like Coronach or Namas arrow is usually my go to for testing PDL (just be careful with distance for true shot, and rng attack AM on anni). I was planning on swapping around regal ring with ephramad to bench mark the value of 10 PDL, then test aria, with marcato, with SV etc. You want to make sure you are attack capped enough to fully benefit from aria, which is likely best tested up to your max PDL (jse neck, ear, emp etc) then removing it from sets when you start aria testing. Good thing about coro and namas is they will be so static that it wont take many ws to work out aria PDL values. But I realize this is asking a lot inside sortie...
By SimonSes 2023-06-10 00:51:56
Not enough data obviously, but it looks like Oshala has a very steep increase from 1000 to 2000TP, then much lower for 2000 to 3000.
My guess from experience and provided data (based on calculations) would be:
WSC:
50%INT
50%MND
fTP:
1000 2.4
2000 8.25
3000 11.5
But it can also be 60%INT 60%MND with slightly lowers fTP
[+]
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-10 02:00:26
I have the horn, but it may be several days before my group gets around to doing an actual testing run. For those who are more in the know than I am, are there any specific conditions you would like to see tested for the Aria of Passion song?
Grats! And thanks for offering this info.
Something like Coronach or Namas arrow is usually my go to for testing PDL (just be careful with distance for true shot, and rng attack AM on anni). I was planning on swapping around regal ring with ephramad to bench mark the value of 10 PDL, then test aria, with marcato, with SV etc. You want to make sure you are attack capped enough to fully benefit from aria, which is likely best tested up to your max PDL (jse neck, ear, emp etc) then removing it from sets when you start aria testing. Good thing about coro and namas is they will be so static that it wont take many ws to work out aria PDL values. But I realize this is asking a lot inside sortie...
Any ranged attack would work, doesn't need to be either relic WS. Cap attack w/ geo and have your COR shoot at one of the mobs that I listed stats for. Do it once without the song, then again with. Can easily tell how much PDL it has on it that way, especially since at most COR will only have PDL I naturally from /NIN sub, can lock slots or something to ensure they don't shoot in extra PDL gear (for COR this basically means just avoid Malignance and Ikenga in midshot). Frailty+Fury w/ Chaos will cap attack since those are normal mobs and thus unaffected by geomancy nerfs.
[+]
By SimonSes 2023-06-10 04:11:43
Valefor.Prothescar said: »-There is no easy way to test for fTP replication in Sortie. We can fudge it by manipulating ACC so that the first hit often misses but getting something to happen like only 1 of the last 3 hits landing would be hard. Much easier when you can go hit a NIN mob.
-Multihit weaponskill testing will be complicated because of the last point. We can't say whether fTP replicates or not, therefor we can't know specific fTP of each hit without spending a lot of plates. Getting the first hit fTP and full WS fTP would be 'easier' but still a pain in the ***.
-What Sortie will be good for is getting general data such as WS mods (unlikely to get exact WSC but will know what affects which WS at least) and a general idea of http://fTP. For ranged and single hit melee WS we can get much closer to an accurate set of values assuming the people testing are properly documenting all of the necessary information so that we can pool results into bigger sample sets.
Afaik that trick on NIN doesn't work anyway. First hit that connects after shadow is calculated as main hit.
You also makes it too complicated. You don't really need much plates. You can probably test everything in one run.
What you need is fotia gorget or belt.
Finding ftp for main hit
1. Go hit/ws acuex with capped attack until it's at low%
2. Killshot with prime WS
3. Repeat until you get distribution of damage when highest is 5% higher then lowest or at least close.
4. Repeat with fotia
Repeat for 1000, 2000, 3000TP
This will let you find exact fTP on main hit because you can calculate it from knowing the damage increase from +0.1 fTP
If you know exact fTP, you could technically calculate WSC mods too, but since those WSs has 2-3 mods and we can't be sure they are even one more test is required.
1. Do the same as in previous points 1. to 3. but add 30 base stats. Mods are almost for sure the ones featured on weapon and easiest way to do it is boost-stat from WHM. If you get new distribution with added 30 base stats and knowing fTP, it's easy to calculate exact WSC mod (you need to provide values for your stats, WSD and PDL)
Edit: For ranged WS this is ofc much easier, because there is no distribution. Its always same damage at capped attack, so whole test would take like few minutes top and there is no ftp replication to find, since it's one hit WSs.
By LightningHelix 2023-06-10 08:03:26
Afaik that trick on NIN doesn't work anyway. First hit that connects after shadow is calculated as main hit. ...doesn't that guarantee that you get main hit and then X more hits, reduced by shadows? so if there's two shadows and you launch a four-hitter then you're guaranteed to get exactly main + 1 of the followups (assuming 100% accuracy rate work with me here)
[+]
By SimonSes 2023-06-10 10:22:37
Afaik that trick on NIN doesn't work anyway. First hit that connects after shadow is calculated as main hit. ...doesn't that guarantee that you get main hit and then X more hits, reduced by shadows? so if there's two shadows and you launch a four-hitter then you're guaranteed to get exactly main + 1 of the followups (assuming 100% accuracy rate work with me here)
Yeah I guess you could check fTP replication this way. You can also check fTP replication without NIN or shadows simply checking your TP return. You will then know how many hits connected and can check if whole damage divided by number of hits is close to main hit damage. It's probably easier then waiting for miss on main hit.
I will test one weapon for sure, but I wont have it faster than in two weeks probably and I still haven't decided which I want the most.
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By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-10 14:13:08
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Any ranged attack would work
Agreed. Just need to handle any crits and associated pDIF change appropriately (or exclude from test), but yeah capping with x PDL from song on a crit should still be true on the regular upstairs mobs with a geo. Should be quite a simple test, can also try with and without moonbow whistle to test + all songs impact.
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By Asura.Volteczero 2023-06-11 20:37:59
I didn't get the chance to test enmity generation on prime WS, but after playing with prime staff for 1 sortie run, my first impression is that I'm not super impressed with it, the only redeeming quality that I notice so far is that the damage difference with aftermath effect seems to be significant.
However, IMO the duration of aftermath is incredibly short even at AM3, making using this weapon at full power very annoying. I hope this improves with further upgrade. After I finish playing around with this weapon, I'll probably switch back to Laevateinn for my daily sortie grind.
[+]
Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2023-06-11 22:13:15
I didn't get the chance to test enmity generation on prime WS, but after playing with prime staff for 1 sortie run, my first impression is that I'm not super impressed with it, the only redeeming quality that I notice so far is that the damage difference with aftermath effect seems to be significant.
However, IMO the duration of aftermath is incredibly short even at AM3, making using this weapon at full power very annoying. I hope this improves with further upgrade. After I finish playing around with this weapon, I'll probably switch back to Laevateinn for my daily sortie grind.
Which ranged prime did you go for (assuming on another char)? can you comment on damage?
By ashcrow 2023-06-12 07:15:45
I didn't get the chance to test enmity generation on prime WS, but after playing with prime staff for 1 sortie run, my first impression is that I'm not super impressed with it, the only redeeming quality that I notice so far is that the damage difference with aftermath effect seems to be significant.
However, IMO the duration of aftermath is incredibly short even at AM3, making using this weapon at full power very annoying. I hope this improves with further upgrade. After I finish playing around with this weapon, I'll probably switch back to Laevateinn for my daily sortie grind. Wait you already have Prime weapon with Aftermath level and its only good after the aftermath?
By zixxer 2023-06-12 07:38:23
Right now for me anyways, shield is a safe pick, being a main pld.
BUT... I do enjoy Sam and War. If someone has those primes, please share some insights, numbers, anything... Would help with a decision.
By SimonSes 2023-06-12 08:32:13
I didn't get the chance to test enmity generation on prime WS, but after playing with prime staff for 1 sortie run, my first impression is that I'm not super impressed with it, the only redeeming quality that I notice so far is that the damage difference with aftermath effect seems to be significant.
However, IMO the duration of aftermath is incredibly short even at AM3, making using this weapon at full power very annoying. I hope this improves with further upgrade. After I finish playing around with this weapon, I'll probably switch back to Laevateinn for my daily sortie grind. Wait you already have Prime weapon with Aftermath level and its only good after the aftermath?
Every rank from 3 to 5 has aftermath.
By SimonSes 2023-06-12 08:46:36
I didn't get the chance to test enmity generation on prime WS, but after playing with prime staff for 1 sortie run, my first impression is that I'm not super impressed with it, the only redeeming quality that I notice so far is that the damage difference with aftermath effect seems to be significant.
However, IMO the duration of aftermath is incredibly short even at AM3, making using this weapon at full power very annoying. I hope this improves with further upgrade. After I finish playing around with this weapon, I'll probably switch back to Laevateinn for my daily sortie grind.
Im not really sure what's surprising with it. Staff without aftermath is pretty transparent and you should know exactly what to expect from 25INT 60mab and 294mdmg.
It should be pretty obvious that without aftermath it wont be a competition for some top picks, but how is a 3min aftermath hard to use in Sortie? Everything beside mega boss should die within 3min, so it should fit perfectly.
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By Asura.Volteczero 2023-06-12 13:32:42
[+]
Let's keep this thread solely for sharing information on the new prime weaponskills; WS numbers/sceenshots, hypothetical discussions on WS properties, such as stat mods and fTP, gear sets and buffs/debuffs used etc.
No discussions/comments on how much people hate sortie, why weapon requirements suck etc.
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