Difficulty In FFXI - A Retrospective

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Difficulty in FFXI - a retrospective
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 19:38:20
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Thank you for this I dont dox your site btw so just a lucky guess.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:06:55
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Nariont said: »
limbus was just one of the examples i could remember, i wanna say there was a few key good pieces in there but yeah, wasn't incredible, i did forget about neo-nyzul which was what id call a true revamp compared to limbus/einherjar though i guess its easier to replace 1 zone with another vs multiple wings/zones.

also seconded on a true ilvl limbus, but fairly certain its long dead, we got our omega/ultima htb and later master trial, and that's probably enough, cause all limbus was is omega/ultima right?
Not gonna lie I been lowkey hoping for limbus to make a return that and sea but I just know it won't happen. Limbus would be cool as ***if done right. Imagine sea also going in the palace and killing jailers! Take me back.
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:10:53
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They already did that.. Escha.. The exact same NMs and mobs lol. They also already did Limbus.. It was kinda lame but it was there, and really they already replicated that content various times with different skin. Yall should want new expansions and new areas.. I'm kinda done with going back, although an ilevel version of stuff would be nice for Nyzul that also gave tokens or Einherjar to help with mythics
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By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:11:39
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unfortunately sea is also a never ever since they just moved all the jailers to escha-ruann, it's really a shame since id often just idle in that zone due to the bgm/general look of the place, now its just another empty zone.

Draylo said: »
Yall should want new expansions and new areas..

Sure, there's plenty of new stuff I want, I also know it won't happen with the games current state, also unfortunately aware they won't revisit/update older content cause, well, they already did at 99, and some again at 119 via unity and such. But its easier and more importantly cheaper to retool older content to move up to ilvl than it is to just make all new stuff.
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:13:55
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Draylo said: »

There are private servers that have even Dynamis D, but most are buggy mess. So they do go beyond the 75 era but poorly. I really disagree with you overall, I think private servers are a complete detriment to retail. Just look at the video I linked on the first page, READ those comments! Just read the lunacy dripping off them. You have people trying to actively recruit others to a *free* private server. People actively bashing retail, thinking we are still in Abyssea at the end when we had super powered atma. These people are ALL over the place, Reddit, Youtube you name it. I have debated with them endlessly and theres a lot of them. Hell, even previous LS members of mine are jaded by current retail and think 75 era was best. I just dont see private servers as a benefit whatsoever for retail.

Ultimately you're in an uphill losing fight against nostalgia because most of the people pining for a lvl75 experience are looking for that first time XI all of us fell in love with that simply cannot happen again. The coeurls out of the bag, most of us are nearly 20 years older, windower exists, social media exists where people can do more than consult allakhazam or killing ifrit or blue gartr.

Anyone who wants to talk about golden age XI better be ready to talk about how every pet job was ***, how WOTG cratered the game because Tanaka was busy wiring the greatest bomb in Final Fantasy history (RIP XIV 1.0), how content like Moblin Maze Mongers, Pankration and Chocobo Racing had little incentive to be completed, how SE straight up lied about AV, RMT were running rampant monopolizing lotto pop NMs or talk about why Newton Movalpolos was designed by a psychopath etc etc.

I look fondly back on classic XI (ROZ-WOTG) but without Abyssea this game would be shut down and the servers in a Japanese landfill.

Yep I agree, its a shame they cant see reason.


Dazusu said: »
Draylo said: »
Sadly those 75 era purists hate retail so much they want it to fail just so they can say "ha! I told you so"

I wouldn't call myself a 75 purist, but if the opportunity presented to play on an officially sanctioned 75 era server; I'd probably go waste several hours there. But, then I'm also balanced enough that I recognize the advances of retail and I wouldn't want any 75 era experience to be at the expense of retail or its continued advancement.

Some aspects of 75 era were fun, but a lot of what made that era was the people -- the community (at the time), the asinine contest over HNMs, and alliance content in abundance (which was only really alliance content because most people were mediocre at best and gear choices were limited), and that combination will never be recreated. It's definitely not for everyone.

Yep, I've been saying that a long time. It was the community, not the archaic content we did. Its something that was like magic in a bottle, its impossible to recreate 100%.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-01-04 20:14:52
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I really hope Valhalla is a cool zone if we get there.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:17:52
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Draylo said: »
They already did that.. Escha.. The exact same NMs and mobs lol. They also already did Limbus.. It was kinda lame but it was there, and really they already replicated that content various times with different skin. Yall should want new expansions and new areas.. I'm kinda done with going back, although an ilevel version of stuff would be nice for Nyzul that also gave tokens or Einherjar to help with mythics
I remember the second limbus and I did it but I still want it back stop trying to take my fun! Forreal though I know it won't happen nor should it tbh its been done already. Down with nyzul I would love new zones and content but im also being real SE aint planning no big *** new zone and with new ***at this point of the games life. Forget escha its not the same :( I want the looks of sea and the fear of a UFO touching me from above.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:20:02
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Nariont said: »
unfortunately sea is also a never ever since they just moved all the jailers to escha-ruann, it's really a shame since id often just idle in that zone due to the bgm/general look of the place, now its just another empty zone.

Draylo said: »
Yall should want new expansions and new areas..

Sure, there's plenty of new stuff I want, I also know it won't happen with the games current state, also unfortunately aware they won't revisit/update older content cause, well, they already did at 99, and some again at 119 via unity and such. But its easier and more importantly cheaper to retool older content to move up to ilvl than it is to just make all new stuff.
Thats where I am on it. I want this stuff but really just know it wont happen and better chance to just retool like you said. I miss all the old music sadly I haven't listen to game sound in like 10 years.
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By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:22:32
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I'll occasionally throw the ost up when im driving or just doing some misc thing, or its just eternally stuck in my head like lufaise meadows or sea/AU from idling there so many times
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:23:05
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lol Escha had that fear of UFO, and if you killed it you could pop the NM and he might kill you or charm you. They literally go out of their way to bring back nostalgia in almost all their content and each era... This is part of the whole problem, people are so engrossed in nostlgia they just dont see the efforts in front of their eyes. While it would be easier to ilevel and redo all the old stuff... just why. They should do literally anything new. I lived thru all that too, and I remember it very fondly. I just want a new expansion, I had so much fun with Adoulin as it progressed and seeing new things everywhere. I wouldn't write off an expansion fully, but its becoming too late soon because they dont treat XI as profitable even tho it is. That anniversary was the perfect time to announce something like that, they completely failed.
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By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:27:26
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Escha UFOs had the benefit of trusts and they were DC-EM at best. Sea UFOs were a legit threat if you couldnt CC them, but that was most things back at 75 that werent DC or under. It was kinda crap but also made exploring potentially threatening
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:29:21
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Yeah but they also had potential to pop the NM and I saw tons of people wipe to that thing or they were charmed and others killed them. If youre debating we need open world regular mobs that are harder, thats one thing. It seems like youre saying there was nothing similar to sea and thats not true.

They really just cant win either way, they add nostalgia crap and people complain. They make things too hard, people complain. They change something for the better, people complain.



Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them. Dont most of them complain the game is too easy? No need to buy gil when it falls from the trees, you get Gil from literally everything.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:32:59
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Draylo said: »
lol Escha had that fear of UFO, and if you killed it you could pop the NM and he might kill you or charm you. They literally go out of their way to bring back nostalgia in almost all their content and each era... This is part of the whole problem, people are so engrossed in nostlgia they just dont see the efforts in front of their eyes. While it would be easier to ilevel and redo all the old stuff... just why. They should do literally anything new. I lived thru all that too, and I remember it very fondly. I just want a new expansion, I had so much fun with Adoulin as it progressed and seeing new things everywhere. I wouldn't write off an expansion fully, but its becoming too late soon because they dont treat XI as profitable even tho it is. That anniversary was the perfect time to announce something like that, they completely failed.
No I think you miss the point people see that and just miss it is all the fear of escha ufo vs back in the day aint even close to the same you. The UFO in 75 cap days had a like 90% chance or more of killing you now its maybe 3# if you bad bad. I think thats what most miss is the fear idk man. I want new content like you and others but let me still have the old dreams! Don't be a dream killer!
Also I agree if they would've did something during the 20th it wouldve been perfect. I 100% get what you saying and agree just miss some of that stuff sometimes.
 Asura.Iamaman
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By Asura.Iamaman 2023-01-04 20:35:50
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What I think most of them want is the 1-75 grind that they never finished. They call the game too easy, then when you point out harder content, they say it's too difficult to get into. I don't necessarily disagree with the latter, but it's impossible to satisfy some of them.

As for Escha and UFOs, when I came back around 2 years ago I "oops I accidentally" Warder of Love right as DI was finishing, it rampaged through those left there and killed several of them. Oopsie!
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By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:49:49
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Whether they realize it or not it's ultimately the community people have nostalgia for, provided its not just simple "old good, new bad" anyway it's in large part what makes the content memorable, plus doable at all since nothing back then was getting done without at least 2-3 people. As far as ye old 1-75 times I just like the aesthetic of older areas, a lot of areas post CoP are C+P hallways, probably most blatant early example is nyzul, plus better (imo) music
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:56:07
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That is why part of me feels that that dumb nostalgic 75 era crowd held back the game a lot and still do. They quit, lower population, SE deems us not worthy an expansion. I really hate that my favorite game to play is constantly held back by people with nostalgia goggles who want to play the same crap over and over. I can't believe people would prefer that over an expansion and then just accept it wont happen because dummies all quit. They literally want to be in sky and sea, when we were in those damn zones for over a decade!! Goodness, and they want them recreated more than once, just makes no logical sense to me. Even before Abyssea, I remember farming diorite for like 6 hours once and getting no drop and wondering why the hell are we still doing this years later.
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By Dazusu 2023-01-05 05:04:21
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Draylo said: »
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.

To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.

Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.

Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.

This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist.
 Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2023-01-05 05:06:03
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It was a double edged sword I think, because yeah my millionth dynamis was as tedious and slow as the first. No variation, largely mapped out patterns, low drop rates and competition. It was no fun.

But it was nice that even though I joined in the ToAU era I was able to experience a lot of the endgame content from eras prior. That some of that gear was still relevant and I could see people in and around cities wearing it.

Unlocking Sky and Sea because it was relevant for endgame was also another good incentive to engage with those stories. Some of the cool fights were years old by the time I got there, Divine Might for instance.

But I loved Abyssea, because I think it really made the game feel markedly different. And they still were able to turn old events into something new, which was also nice.

As for the REMA thing, I never got one to 99, because I didn't GitGud or whatever, but I think anything beyond maybe Aeonics.. engaging with 75 era content ad-infinitum (EG Mythics) and huge gil sinks do not constitute difficulty.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 05:51:14
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Dazusu said: »
Draylo said: »
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.

To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.

Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.

Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.

This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist.
Yea the game had/has a toxic thing when it comes to this for sure like hell we still have to list bards and geos as idris or honor March to get people to look at you. I remember my 6 months of no group on geo because no idris. The game has gotten a bit better about that I feel now that nageling is in everyone's hands and geo taking indirect nerfs for some content.
 Bahamut.Galakar
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By Bahamut.Galakar 2023-01-05 06:23:00
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Dazusu said: »
Draylo said: »
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.

To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.

Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.

Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.

This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist.
Yea the game had/has a toxic thing when it comes to this for sure like hell we still have to list bards and geos as idris or honor March to get people to look at you. I remember my 6 months of no group on geo because no idris. The game has gotten a bit better about that I feel now that nageling is in everyone's hands and geo taking indirect nerfs for some content.

I wouldn't say that this is that bad. Yes, there are toxic players. Yes, there are elitist players who will ask for X REMAs just to join them in fighting Escha Zi'Tah GF. But it is not a rule.

The main difference is, that the groups that do not require players to have REMAs or some crazy gear, often is also not able to guarantee the win. The more casual the group, the higher chances for a wipe. There are people who don't want to try the same fight 20 or 30 fights before winning but want to do it on the first try (and on the highest difficulty, if the battlefield is scalable).
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 06:50:55
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Bahamut.Galakar said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Dazusu said: »
Draylo said: »
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.

To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.

Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.

Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.

This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist.
Yea the game had/has a toxic thing when it comes to this for sure like hell we still have to list bards and geos as idris or honor March to get people to look at you. I remember my 6 months of no group on geo because no idris. The game has gotten a bit better about that I feel now that nageling is in everyone's hands and geo taking indirect nerfs for some content.

I wouldn't say that this is that bad. Yes, there are toxic players. Yes, there are elitist players who will ask for X REMAs just to join them in fighting Escha Zi'Tah GF. But it is not a rule.

The main difference is, that the groups that do not require players to have REMAs or some crazy gear, often is also not able to guarantee the win. The more casual the group, the higher chances for a wipe. There are people who don't want to try the same fight 20 or 30 fights before winning but want to do it on the first try (and on the highest difficulty, if the battlefield is scalable).
Ya I was saying it was that bad before this was years its not like that much anymore outside maybe asura? It's not a matter of when more so that it exists in my eyes. Everything else I agree with. Tons of games are way worse about this than xi ever has been or will be. Wow destiny 2 xiv list goes on where one try wipe people leave ***kinda sad but I get it limited play time and don't wanna wipe.
 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-01-05 07:13:13
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The general sentiment around needing a REMA is if you haven't taken the time to do that, what else haven't you done for your jobs?

It's unfair but most people don't like letting strangers leech.
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By Mattelot 2023-01-05 07:25:20
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Phoenix.Iocus said: »
The general sentiment around needing a REMA is if you haven't taken the time to do that, what else haven't you done for your jobs?

It's unfair but most people don't like letting strangers leech.

A person can check another person's gear to see if they meet their personal, made-up criteria for content. Not really much else you can wonder about what they have or have not done.

And unless the person is literally standing there doing absolutely nothing at all, they're not really leeching. People love to call others leeches because they're not outputting the same numbers they are or people love claiming they carried someone when most of the time, they didn't. They just like to say so to try condescending others and project the illusion that they're elite or "better" than someone else. You can easily see what you're getting into before you enter something. If you join a PUG, you get whatever the dice roll.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 07:26:37
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Phoenix.Iocus said: »
The general sentiment around needing a REMA is if you haven't taken the time to do that, what else haven't you done for your jobs?

It's unfair but most people don't like letting strangers leech.
Well it depends because all remas aint good. So what if you made a mandau for your rdm can you enfeeble the boss? So many people have rema in this game and yet so many don't know how to use them or have useless ones trying to force them into being good. I get your point don't get me wrong but hundreds of million don't just drop into everyone's pockets. Also idris and epeo no matter how much money you got take 6 months.

Edit: Also im not posting as to have every answer btw just wanted to put that out there
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-05 08:17:39
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Dazusu said: »
people in our community can be toxic,
I was gonna say "lol thats only Asura", then I remembered that yesterday someone admitted to holding onto 12+ year old receipts of mine and then someone dropping my real name on these forums.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 09:30:23
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Dazusu said: »
people in our community can be toxic,
I was gonna say "lol thats only Asura", then I remembered that yesterday someone admitted to holding onto 12+ year old receipts of mine and then someone dropping my real name on these forums.
I mean its because you seem to be holding on to that 12 year old receipt lol let it go and move on or do you wanna call another woman a *** again?
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 Bahamut.Ninakira
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By Bahamut.Ninakira 2023-01-05 09:37:22
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Dazusu said: »
people in our community can be toxic,
I was gonna say "lol thats only Asura", then I remembered that yesterday someone admitted to holding onto 12+ year old receipts of mine and then someone dropping my real name on these forums.

Weren't you the one telling her to... move on? I see you're still stuck on it and it probably kept you up at night. Funny how a video game works, also, just so you know, a quick look un google: "Nynja ffxi" takes people to your Facebook profile. Maybe look into that.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-01-05 09:41:23
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There's a whole spreadsheet with gilgamesh irl names matching players

And links to sources, where you out yourselves

For what it's worth

(No I'm not going to link it, cause that's a no-no, but I reply to messages)
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 09:45:34
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
There's a whole spreadsheet with gilgamesh irl names matching players

For what it's worth
Which that's crazy to me hell didn't even it was his name I mean it is a common name but whatever let's move on.

I'm with draylo on wanting new content btw my only problem is I want them to put thought into it and make it fun and exciting which I know can't happen honestly with a 21 year old game at this point. They got better games to worry about. I really wish we had the excitement of exploring a new zone or fighting new mobs not reskins.
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By Mattelot 2023-01-05 09:57:08
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
There's a whole spreadsheet with gilgamesh irl names matching players

And links to sources, where you out yourselves

For what it's worth

(No I'm not going to link it, cause that's a no-no, but I reply to messages)

Why would someone need this?

I know the real names of a few people who play only because they've posted screen snips of their Facebook posts on Discord but to compile a spreadsheet for it? What's the purpose?

It's fine seeing pics of what players look like. Anyone remember that ffxi players website years ago where people posted their pics? It was pretty neat back then outside of 1 guy who was not but only looked islam and was getting harassed over it. I thought that was weird and crude.
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