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November 2022 Version Update
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2022-11-10 03:54:08
Atm stage 2 is easier and faster to get than Kaja Sword. I'm talking about people who would struggle doing Vol1 E.
People who only have a small bunch of JPs, uncapped merits, ML0, shitty gear that's barely 119.
They have no *** chance to solo Sortie.
Would take them probably weeks of work to get 10k Gallimaufry.
Unless someone kind enough (i.e. me) let them leech points.
It's not that it's "unreasonable", it's more that it's a pretty big increase in terms of what was previously "required" to complete main story quests.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of a single main story content/BC that "required" something this grindy to just even be able to access it.
And let's not talk about the BC fights difficulty because aside from a couple ones, they really are so easy they complete themselves on their own with you doing anything.
Simple "fix" to this? The first Prime Weapon stage 1 you get is free and you get it with the story.
All the other additional ones you want to get cost X gallimaufry and then whatever else.
There, FTFY.
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By Aerix 2022-11-10 03:56:31
I mean, these days REMA-tier weapons are usually considered a basic requirement for almost all content by most groups. So it kind of makes sense that SE has adopted that kind of mindset for their endgame story content as well, especially if one ends up with a complete or nearly complete Prime weapon by the end of it. Sorry but this doesn't make sense to me.
RMEA-tier weapons are wrongly considered "required" by a part of the community to be invited into end-game content activity.
We already discussed over these boards how, most of the time, this is a very un-inclusive and unjustified approach, but regardless it was the game community requiring that, not the game itself.
It's a big difference Aerix, a HUGE difference.
Story has always allowed ANYBODY to enjoy it. Even people who exclusively do the story and ignore everything else.
I'm not being like the fox & the grapes, this thing doesn't concern me at all. I have multiple RMEAs, I do all sort of end-game activity and you can bet I'm gonna get at least 1 Prime Weapon.
I'm talking about everybody else
People who don't have a RMEA, who never got one nor is interested in one. People who never did end game content, who plays vanilla, who logs in just for the community or for super casual activities. People who do Ambuscade vol1 on E with friends and they struggle even on that.
There's A LOT of people like that. You just don't hear from them because they don't post on FFXIAH and people like us usually don't hang around people like that, but trust me there's a lot.
Now they're gating the story, the motherfucking bloody main story, behind what would be a super intense and insane grind for them. It's like telling them "ok, watch this on youtube because you'll never manage to do it yourself".
I'm not saying I agree with their approach, but it's looking like this is how it's going to be going forward because they are catering to power gamers.
The entirety of Odyssey has been very exclusive from the start. SE doesn't care much for casual players these days because there's 20 years of existing content along with some catch-up stuff like Empy+2 or Ambu weapons.
Also, future TVR mission fights are also likely going to be impossible for players who struggle with Ambu Vol1 E.
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Asura.Essylt
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 256
By Asura.Essylt 2022-11-10 04:05:24
It's not that it's "unreasonable", it's more that it's a pretty big increase in terms of what was previously "required" to complete main story quests. Feel free to correct me, of course, but I'd say doing level capped promys in CoP back in the day was an order of magnitude higher requirement than solo grinding sortie for a week or 2.
By SimonSes 2022-11-10 04:07:07
Atm stage 2 is easier and faster to get than Kaja Sword. I'm talking about people who would struggle doing Vol1 E.
People who only have a small bunch of JPs, uncapped merits, ML0, shitty gear that's barely 119.
They have no *** chance to solo Sortie.
Would take them probably weeks of work to get 10k Gallimaufry.
Unless someone kind enough (i.e. me) let them leech points.
It's not that it's "unreasonable", it's more that it's a pretty big increase in terms of what was previously "required" to complete main story quests.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of a single main story content/BC that "required" something this grindy to just even be able to access it.
And let's not talk about the BC fights difficulty because aside from a couple ones, they really are so easy they complete themselves on their own with you doing anything.
What are you talking about.
Acuex in A are low level mobs. Doable but any ilvl 119 with Trusts. Lets say in a single Sortie run you will only
- kill 5 acuex and obdella - 860 galli with red chest
- get browns A1, A2, A5, B2, B5, C1, C5, D2 which require no fighting at all beside C1, C5 requires to kill one corse on device - 800 Galli
- get blue A1, A2, B2 - 300 Galli
Total: 2000 Galli. Trusts alone are enough to do all the killing here. 5 solo runs and you get stage 1. Probably 1-2 more to get stage 2. EASY. If you actually PUG for it, even with very fresh ilvl 119 players, it would take like maybe 3-4 Sortie top.
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-11-10 04:09:28
Our group cleared every v20 with mixed jobs between 10-30 10-30 is not 0 People legit think you can't but v20 nm's without ML? My ongo v20 clear was done with ML1 BLM same with most of sortie nms my blm is ML 3 now because of sortie. People putting way too much stock in ML.
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2022-11-10 04:15:22
It's not that it's "unreasonable", it's more that it's a pretty big increase in terms of what was previously "required" to complete main story quests. Feel free to correct me, of course, but I'd say doing level capped promys in CoP back in the day was an order of magnitude higher requirement than solo grinding sortie for a week or 2. level capped promys and the 4 pots fight at the end of CoP were definitely very difficult.
It's hard to make a 1:1 comparison with today's standards though. We're talking about a game where hardly anything could be done "solo", the game was all around the concept of grouping, to the point of forcing you to group.
It wasn't "grind" either, it was just "difficult".
Forcing players to use level 30 equipment (50 for Vahzl) wasn't a big requirement either, they were asking you to do "less" than what you likely had, not more. Made sense to be more "inclusive" towards new players. CoP was the launch of the game in Europe after all, which meant lots of new players starting at 1 to add with all the previous JP an US players who were already at 75 or close to that.
I dunno, it's hard to compare but I'll acknowlege promys were hard for sure. Just "hard" though, there were no "requirements" and no "grind" at all.
And honestly it's one of the few exceptions of "difficult" fights. You can count the "difficult" stuff in MSQ on the fingers of one hand though, truth be said.
Asura.Byrne
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Byrne 2022-11-10 04:18:09
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »well gravity II been nerfed doesn't even bind non-NMs now with composure and full potency.
Well, rather than being "nerfed" outright, it seems like an upper limit has been put on the potency of Gravity II at 94%.
Admittedly I haven't tested this extensively, but my -% movement speed values seem to be the same on ITG/NMs as they were before the update. (They were -70% movement (while moving) before and after the update).
I pulled off 10 Enfeebling effect and Grav 2 was -94% with or without that piece on non-ITG.
*all values based on speedchecker so this isn't necessarily the actual speed reduction amount, but rather the final movement speed.
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6191
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2022-11-10 04:19:05
The shield is size 6 (same as Ochain) with 140 defense and shield skill +118. Does that make it our best physical shield now against high level content? I can't really see what a level 90 Ochain has over it at this point.
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Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2022-11-10 04:20:34
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Our group cleared every v20 with mixed jobs between 10-30 10-30 is not 0 People legit think you can't but v20 nm's without ML? My ongo v20 clear was done with ML1 BLM same with most of sortie nms my blm is ML 3 now because of sortie. People putting way too much stock in ML. And everybody in your pt was ML1? Or were you the only one?
Aside from the fact that ML1 is not ML0, kudos to you if your group managed to do Ongo V20 with everyone at ML1.
By SimonSes 2022-11-10 04:25:44
The shield is size 6 with 140 defense and shield skill +118. Does that make it our best physical shield now against high level content?
That would be a huge lol :D
Overthrone (by far) Ochain with shield that you can get in 2 Sortie runs.
That amount of skill with size 6 will also easily cap block on almost anything right? Especially with ML40+?
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6191
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2022-11-10 04:33:21
The shield is size 6 with 140 defense and shield skill +118. Does that make it our best physical shield now against high level content?
That would be a huge lol :D
Overthrone (by far) Ochain with shield that you can get in 2 Sortie runs.
That amount of skill with size 6 will also easily cap block on almost anything right? Especially with ML40+?
I think so, also I believe that size 6 has a much higher base % reduction, so I bet it reduces more damage than Srivatsa.
Light the Martel signal! I must know!
By SimonSes 2022-11-10 04:43:18
Light the Martel signal! I must know!
By SimonSes 2022-11-10 04:48:34
I think so, also I believe that size 6 has a much higher base % reduction, so I bet it reduces more damage than Srivatsa.
It actually reduces less damage than Srivatsa, but it's still massive upgrade, because blocked hits with phalanx will be doing 0 damage anyway.
Fenrir.Svens
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 132
By Fenrir.Svens 2022-11-10 04:50:50
Is someone really complaining that the story that's been hammering the point that the bad guy can only be defeated by a certain class of weapons is now forcing players to forge said weapons to progress in the story? If you really wanted to complain about newer players being unable to progress, you should have done so with that NM fight that takes place after opening the Altepa Gate.
Besides, we all know most players who only want to do the story will trudge through Sortie, only open chests without any combat, and get all the +2 earrings they need at max augments.
By Vaerix 2022-11-10 04:56:42
I think so, also I believe that size 6 has a much higher base % reduction, so I bet it reduces more damage than Srivatsa.
It actually reduces less damage than Srivatsa, but it's still massive upgrade, because blocked hits with phalanx will be doing 0 damage anyway.
What does it take to cap block % with srivasta though? This shield with reprisal up will probably cap vs every mob in game AND IT'S NOT EVEN DONE YET.
Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2022-11-10 04:57:50
Is someone really complaining that the story that's been hammering the point that the bad guy can only be defeated by a certain class of weapons is now forcing players to forge said weapons to progress in the story? Aye, and I already posted what would've been a perfectly acceptable solution.
Make the first Prime Weapon you choose free up to stage 2.
Make it require Gallimaufry/whatever for the later stage and for additional weapons.
There, fixed it.
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2022-11-10 04:58:27
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Our group cleared every v20 with mixed jobs between 10-30 10-30 is not 0 People legit think you can't but v20 nm's without ML? My ongo v20 clear was done with ML1 BLM same with most of sortie nms my blm is ML 3 now because of sortie. People putting way too much stock in ML. And everybody in your pt was ML1? Or were you the only one?
Aside from the fact that ML1 is not ML0, kudos to you if your group managed to do Ongo V20 with everyone at ML1. Now I'm even more confused snd don't know if this is troll or not. Do you think from ml0 to ml1 they give you +600 to all stats? The gain from ml isn't that massive also I said ml1 because I assume it started you out as that I've not done much at all for ml. My blm is ml2 so from sortie I got it from 0-2. Also blm would be the key factor in that fight so being ml0 for it would be bigger than others.
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Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1608
By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-11-10 05:27:42
I have a few friends from 2003 who wanted to come back just to do the story together like we used to do back in the days, but they'll never manage to get Prime Weapons, not even stage 1/2. They don't have jobs/gear/progression/time/will to do end-game content.
This is a first time in the FFXI history, right? That they're binding main story content behind end-game/RMEA content.
I dunno, I think it's pretty stupid.
All the completely undergeared people my wife and I ran through CoP didn't have those things either. And those were strangers. Be a good friend and play a MMO with people.
Drag them through Kalunga 0 for Sakpata. They're probably all DRKs anyways if they're from 2003.
Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1608
By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-11-10 05:36:16
wonder what happened to the new synthesis recipes they mentioned?
I think that is what actually interests me more than whatever is going on with the Prime Weapons since it's just a pit stop for now.
I don't see any new items in the patch files funk put on on page 1 but we see at least 3 things that can be new mats to make new synths.
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6191
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2022-11-10 05:39:20
Brew wears off when you zone into the Wyrm God HTBF now. RIP
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By Seun 2022-11-10 05:46:07
Story progression has always required character progression in XI. "character progression" is not "a partially completed RMEA weapon".
I mean are you talking about something specifically? Please enlighten me.
I'm not being sarcastic, maybe I'm forgetting something right now.
FFXI has never been a game where clearing current story content was something you could do casually. The 'end' for casual players was always well before the actual end of the story.
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By SimonSes 2022-11-10 05:51:57
Story progression has always required character progression in XI. "character progression" is not "a partially completed RMEA weapon".
I mean are you talking about something specifically? Please enlighten me.
I'm not being sarcastic, maybe I'm forgetting something right now.
FFXI has never been a game where clearing current story content was something you could do casually. The 'end' for casual players was always well before the actual end of the story.
Exactly. All the major Zilart and CoP fights were really hard even in statics and some people were doing second job (usually RDM) to 60 to beat Snoll for example. New job to 60 at that time was months of grinding.
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By Racingjaw 2022-11-10 05:59:25
FFXI has never been a game where clearing current story content was something you could do casually. The 'end' for casual players was always well before the actual end of the story.
I agree with this. Not everyone had access to Sea back in the 75 era. In fact, when you EARNED access to sea, it felt like you were getting access to an elite gentleman's club that only a small amount of people have the pleasure of obtaining.
It would hamper the experience if everyone is put on a conveyer belt and lifted to the endgame like FFXIV does. At least keep it as it was originally intended. Don't like it? Then work for it like everyone else does. Quit your whining!
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By Mrxi 2022-11-10 06:00:52
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Our group cleared every v20 with mixed jobs between 10-30 10-30 is not 0 People legit think you can't but v20 nm's without ML? My ongo v20 clear was done with ML1 BLM same with most of sortie nms my blm is ML 3 now because of sortie. People putting way too much stock in ML. And everybody in your pt was ML1? Or were you the only one?
Aside from the fact that ML1 is not ML0, kudos to you if your group managed to do Ongo V20 with everyone at ML1. Now I'm even more confused snd don't know if this is troll or not. Do you think from ml0 to ml1 they give you +600 to all stats? The gain from ml isn't that massive also I said ml1 because I assume it started you out as that I've not done much at all for ml. My blm is ml2 so from sortie I got it from 0-2. Also blm would be the key factor in that fight so being ml0 for it would be bigger than others. Meta strat is just bad hes actually one of the easier ones, like 6 min kill once get strat down. I asume people still using Rayke only and steel cyclone with SCH and GEO nuking to get 1 lucky kill then just amp cheese the rest. 40 INT does like nothing when not getting nuke walled and casting in right order.
Fenrir.Svens
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 132
By Fenrir.Svens 2022-11-10 06:25:21
You can literally be a solo, naked 99 to collect the galli and new items for stage 1 and 2. Sorry it'll take a few more days compared to an active endgame player, but that time can be spent actually getting gear for the eventually difficult final fight. If the story actually required say, the new megaboss to be defeated, then you might've had a good point.
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Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2022-11-10 06:29:18
You can literally be a solo, naked 99 to collect the galli and new items for stage 1 and 2. Sorry it'll take a few more days compared to an active endgame player, but that time can be spent actually getting gear for the eventually difficult final fight. If the story actually required say, the new megaboss to be defeated, then you might've had a good point. Regardless of the fact that will never happen (at least not with the people I know, but someone else maybe?) it's still the first time in over 20 years of FFXI that this is happening.
Now if the game always had intense grind/gear requirements since day one I would have nothing to say honestly.
But this is the first time in a loooong history of this game and yes, I'm quite puzzled why they decided to do that, giving a big kick in the balls to those players who are exclusively interested in the story.
Which might seem like a strange thing for a MMO (and with good reason) but definitely not a strange thing for a "Final Fantasy" fan.
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