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What's good about FFXI.
By Chaplin 2021-12-01 08:39:35
It’s too bad the only ones who care about streamers are 12 year olds.
Not sure if serious...if only "12 years olds" care about it, why would game companies pay tons of money to influencers to market their games?
It's obvious that influencers plays a big part when it comes to making money. This relevant to the point in this discussion.
Seriously, why even bring that up as a point?
I wasn't the one who brought up XIV population discussion. Someone else did. I simply just supported some points with data on the internet.
Let me rephrase. Only 12 year olds or adults with problems. Sounds rude but it’s true.
And whoever brought it up. That’s nothing to even be proud of.
By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 08:45:30
What do you mean by “archaic mechanics” exactly? The mechanics in FFXI exist in every single Final Fantasy game
None of the single player FF mechanics are nearly as complicated and unintuitive as FF11. Single player FF is known to have simple and easy to understood combat system IMO. I'd say FFXI is the outlier in the series.
When we need a spreadsheet, or python, to calculate optimal gear sets and write Lua to handle swapping 100s of gear sets in battles. It's hard to say such mechanic is not archaic mechanics tbh.
I don't ever recall having to use spreadsheets or python to build sets in any single player FF.
YES. They are. You navigate Menus in all Final Fantasy games for Spells and Abilities.
The addition of the concept of Formulas for WSD is obviously a NEW welcome concept to Final Fantasy. There’s more complexity to the game due to such. All while FFXIV absolutely gutted ALL the complexity out of the game.
FFXIV is nothing but an Arcade button masher via Timers.
There’s no Haste. There’s no Slow. There’s no Para. There’s no Stun. There’s nothing but Damage & Healing in 14.
It’s not Final Fantasy. The game doesn’t even deserve the Title of Final Fantasy when it’s blatantly obvious a World of Warcraft clone w/ generic no frills gameplay + Run Away from Red Line elements replacing Final Fantasy.
“Archaic” must mean “Sophisticated” since WoW is just as Old but w/ way less Depth just like 14 itself.
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By kinkanat 2021-12-01 08:45:57
Sorry but I have never used a spreadsheet and I don't use LUA either, in fact LUA is a cheat, an illegal tool, so don't claim that you need things like LUA to enjoy FFXI because it's a lie.
By kinkanat 2021-12-01 08:49:28
With FFXIV SE has achieved what I was looking for years ago, a game that you add a paid story every so often, with extremely simple mechanics so the developers don't have to work hard.
With FFXIV SE has achieved the MCDonalds of the genre, that's fine because there is an audience for it and that's fine, what bothers me is to call that the best or say that because many people go to MCDonalds means that there is no audience for other types of restaurants.
That's the real problem with FFXIV and the audience that consumes it.
Another similar is girls who listen to Justin Bieber and say he's the best singer of all time, saying the Beatles are worse....
By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 08:55:24
Not that I want to get into this topic again but there is Paralyze, Slow, and Stun in the game for players to use. They just aren't called that outright.
I will say however that I am a bit sad that there is no elemental weaknesses on mobs. I don't enjoy playing BLM because of it.
What Abilities in 14 do such exactly? I don’t see any of such in 14. All combat looks identical tbh. If you seen one fight vs End Game content. You have seen them all.
I can upload a FFXIV vid of RDM soloing Odin which plays exactly like the last upload I shared. It’s nothing but running away from taking Damage nonstop while casting outside of Red Lines or Attacking from outside of such areas.
Just as I would HATE playing RDM in FFXIV since it’s NOT actually a RDM that exists in any other FF game. It’s a Job Title w/ Zero substance.
Might as just call RDM as Thaumaturge. That’s not Final Fantasy neither.
By Afania 2021-12-01 08:57:53
It’s too bad the only ones who care about streamers are 12 year olds.
Not sure if serious...if only "12 years olds" care about it, why would game companies pay tons of money to influencers to market their games?
It's obvious that influencers plays a big part when it comes to making money. This relevant to the point in this discussion.
Seriously, why even bring that up as a point?
I wasn't the one who brought up XIV population discussion. Someone else did. I simply just supported some points with data on the internet.
Let me rephrase. Only 12 year olds or adults with problems. Sounds rude but it’s true.
Personal opinion, lol. Game industry still revolves around influencers no matter how you hate it.
Sorry but I have never used a spreadsheet and I don't use LUA either, in fact LUA is a cheat, an illegal tool, so don't claim that you need things like LUA to enjoy FFXI because it's a lie.
If you don't use spreadsheets/python to calculate optimal sets, then you either have to calculate by hand and waste a lot of time, or copy others set on forums who probably calculated optimal sets with math anyways.
Unless you are some kind of math genius that can see the correct optimal set with 0 calculation.
Either way FFXI mechanic is needlessly complicated no matter how you look at it.
Diminishing values, wtf is that? Haste caps? Pdif caps for different weapons? It's confusing as ***. Single player FF didn't have any of these overcomplicated rules.
I didn't say you need Lua to "enjoy" the game. I only say FFXI has way too many sets that needs to be handled if playing optimally, which makes gameplay not intuitive. You can still enjoy the game for any reason, you can even tell me you enjoy FFXI because you like to see tarus dancing.
Doesn't change how the mechanic is needlessly complicated. Certainly worse than any single player FF.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 09:02:50
Stun: Brutal Swing
Leg Sweep
Shield Bash
Shoulder Tackle
Spineshatter Dive
Suppressive Fire
Booming Bellow
Firecracker Shower
Overcharge
Ravensbeak
Shriek
Slipstream
Slow:
Feint
Haymaker
Lethargy
Rancid Belch
Sticky Web
Bad Breath
Paralyze:
Cold Glare
High Voltage
Paralyze Potion
Bad Breath
Those ain’t even Spells is why? Those are just Added Effects of Attacks that do Damage?
By Jetackuu 2021-12-01 09:04:41
Let me rephrase. Only 12 year olds or adults with problems. Sounds rude but it’s true.
See, normally I don't give a rats ***, but it's nice to not be alone sometimes.
By Chaplin 2021-12-01 09:05:45
It’s too bad the only ones who care about streamers are 12 year olds.
Not sure if serious...if only "12 years olds" care about it, why would game companies pay tons of money to influencers to market their games?
It's obvious that influencers plays a big part when it comes to making money. This relevant to the point in this discussion.
Seriously, why even bring that up as a point?
I wasn't the one who brought up XIV population discussion. Someone else did. I simply just supported some points with data on the internet.
Let me rephrase. Only 12 year olds or adults with problems. Sounds rude but it’s true.
Personal opinion, lol. Game industry still revolves around influencers no matter how you hate it.
No it doesn’t. It revolves around the players. Games did just fine without those guys. You’re welcome to believe that if you want. I’ve seen some naive people give streamers credit for all kinds of things they had nothing to do with, so nothing new.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 09:06:57
Sigh, moving goal posts again? You said they weren't in the game not that they had to be only spells. Does this not get tiring? I literally never say this but its just a game, man. Play it or don't. It doesn't matter either way.
I’m not moving the Goal Post. If I have Additional Effect of Paralyze on Kikoku using Metsu. Does that concept replace actual Mages whom are used to Enfeeble?
FFXIV is nothing but Damage + Healing but w/ the added twist of Damage Attacks doing what Mages are supposed to do
By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 09:16:10
Well…… one person claimed FFXI as Archaic
Then I myself later came to the realization that Archaic must translate as meaning RDM casting Enfeebling and not just using Kikoku Para as an Additional Effect of Blade: Metsu since apparently Final Fantasy elements due exist in 14 but only as Additional Effects of Damage dealing Timers.
By RadialArcana 2021-12-01 09:16:22
llAKs0nll did you make your account just to sht stir? Cause you're going all out.
Lets stop talking about XIV in an XI thread, if you like it cool, if you don't that's cool too but we don't need to argue about it here.
If you want, make a specific thread about it.
By Afania 2021-12-01 09:19:50
No it doesn’t. It revolves around the players. Games did just fine without those guys. You’re welcome to believe that if you want. I’ve seen some naive people give streamers credit for all kinds of things they had nothing to do with, so nothing new.
Yeah, 20 years ago. As if tech industry would never change in 20 years.
https://digitalmarketinginstitute.com/blog/20-influencer-marketing-statistics-that-will-surprise-you
https://influencermarketinghub.com/influencer-rates/amp/
You are free to believe only 12 years old cares, and all the game developers who spend 1/3 of their development costs on marketing are wasting their money like morons.
I only believe in data. Unless you can provide marketing data that shows marketing without influencer is as effective, I'd view it as one person opinion and nothing more.
By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 09:20:13
llAKs0nll did you make your account just to sht stir? Cause you're going all out.
Lets stop talking about XIV in an XI thread, if you like it cool, if you don't that's cool too but we don't need to argue about it here.
If you want, make a specific thread about it.
Based upon what other ‘Bleeding Edge’ Gameplay am I supposed to Judge FFXI by?
Remastered FFXI Edition on PS5 and XsX
The problem with remaster is simple. Too risky to make it with archaic mechanics that FFXI is based on. You tell me
“WoW is the Future of Sophisticated gameplay”
Meanwhile it’s just as old and archaic as FFXI itself is.
The rest is me trying to get to the bottom of what they even mean by “Archaic”
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Ragnarok.Jessikah
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3778
By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-12-01 09:25:38
Based upon what other ‘Bleeding Edge’ Gameplay am I supposed to Judge FFXI by? Compare it to the common formula, but do it subjectively. This isn't a thread where we're saying "FFXI is better than XIV because of (blank)", this is a thread where we're saying "I play FFXI because I appreciate that it does (blank), instead of (blank)".
You can say that you prefer the gameplay of XI over the gameplay of XIV. You can't say that XIV's gameplay is trash.
By RadialArcana 2021-12-01 09:27:22
llAKs0nll make your own thread please, then we can opt into your trolling.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19414
By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-12-01 09:28:52
llAKs0nll did you make your account just to sht stir? Cause you're going all out.
Glad we can agree on this. Him (and a couple others, but this dude in particular) are obvious socks made just to troll. I stopped replying to them quickly as a result.
The fact that they're the same guy who had to be told 5 times that they used the wrong link for their guildwork profile was pretty telling.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3113
By Asura.Aeonova 2021-12-01 09:34:28
By Mattelot 2021-12-01 09:36:17
By the looks of it, it's people who can't agree to disagree, trolls calling other people trolls then liking their post with their mule(s), and Arby's is apparently the best.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Odin.Creaucent 2021-12-01 09:36:39
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »I'm not even sure FFXI needs the story or other content updates so much as it could use a little bit of marketing.
Our free trial is only 14 days with almost nothing included, and concludes with the ultimatum: buy and subscribe or lose everything.
You can't even find XI on their own web site. Seriously, even looking for the free trial got me "Did you mean FFXIV Free Trial?"
Advertise that the game is better than it was 18 years ago. Advertise that the game is a very different experience than XIV. Maybe bring back the reduced subscription cost for having both active. Maybe allow players already involved in XIV to have a less-restrictive free trial.
I don't even think it would be that difficult or expensive. You've already won with both the Everquest and WoW formulas, so push the option onto players. I can only imagine how many people only play XIV because they just think it's their only option. I know a lot of people who just think XI is a "less good XIV", so educate them otherwise. In the survey asking why they're quitting, ask if they've ever tried XI, and explain what makes it such a different game.
That was the same page just nearer the top.
By Jetackuu 2021-12-01 09:37:35
Valefor.Prothescar said: »llAKs0nll did you make your account just to sht stir? Cause you're going all out.
Glad we can agree on this. Him (and a couple others, but this dude in particular) are obvious socks made just to troll. I stopped replying to them quickly as a result.
The fact that they're the same guy who had to be told 5 times that they used the wrong link for their guildwork profile was pretty telling.
I just read what this is referencing and now I feel my brain melting.
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By Mattelot 2021-12-01 09:39:37
Arby's is apparently the best. :D I'm glad you agree!
I love Arby's but too bad mine has this apparent problem with subbing buns. I love the melted cheddar but onions make me sick.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3113
By Asura.Aeonova 2021-12-01 09:44:28
Important; please open immediately:
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Things I think are good about FFXI, people tend to ask why are you still playing that game so I thought I would write some things down.
Basics: I like that I can play any job on one character, this instills a greater connection with your character and a greater feeling of community because people are always on that character, so you always see them on it. The gear swapping system is great for many different reasons, from the aspect of adding some complexity to play to just having so much gear to chase. I like the skillchain/MB system, that is still relevant today at near all levels of play. I like that the game has a massive wealth of different things to do and they are all deep enough to get involved in them, crafting, mog garden, pet rearing, monstrosity etc. It's so annoying to me when I find a game I really like and it's 90% just dungeon variation spamming.
1. No Cash shop (muh "optional" items), I know exactly how much I'm spending on FFXI and I can't spend anymore. The issue with playing an MMMORPG is that you spend large amounts of time in these games, and it's very easy to spend money on "optional items". You think you would not cause you're good with money, but you will and you can spend a lot. You get attached to your characters, you're feeling tired and mentally worn down after playing for 4-5 hours, it's 1am, you're bored and there is that fancy $30 mount you just saw someone run past you. Cash shops are predatory and the company manipulates you, you're not immune. On FFXI it's not "optional" at all, they don't have one.
1a. I like the subscription only model, not only for the reason above and because it creates a kind of unwritten contract where they make content regularly (I have another f2p game I enjoy but they very rarely add anything new at all, and it's infuriating because I do spend money on it) but also because paying a monthly sub encourages you to actually play the game. I have lots of f2p games installed that I can play any time I want to, I never play them because there is no mental imperative to do so.
2. I fit into the community in the game cause they are near all over 25+, I don't like playing games with a social foundation where I feel completely out of place. On games like Overwatch or whatever it doesn't matter, you're just shooting people but these games are community based. Not to say everyone on 11 acts like a civlized individual or anything but it's trolling, drama or jokes that gel with me and that I'm used to. Talking of which, you can actually tell jokes or be a troll/drama queen free from being banned for hurting somebodies feelings. The GMs ignore most reports about silly issues like this and just tell you to blist, cause the developers set these rules down long ago before current culture took over. Many modern MMORPGs are played by people who were brought up on social media, they think everything is toxic and many modern games are simply fake friendly because of fear of being banned.
2a) I like that due to the nature of the party building system, some of the most highly respected players of this game are the party builders. People who make groups and become admired for not only doing this but doing it well and being very knowledgeable. On modern games there would be no status in this, because it isn't needed.
2b) I like that the game still tries to force players to interact with others to a greater or lesser degree, there are still roadblocks like mission fights, gear unlocks or whatever where you have to reach out to others. Even new players can be totally lost in how to play and ask for help, and people can and do offer it. It's good that players are still the most important force in the game world, when you need help other players are there and not some UI button to insta match you with others. It actually does feel good to reach out for help and someone to send a tell and offer to help you with something you've been struggling with for hours or days, even if it's harder to get that help in the first place.
In my first year of playing I was on the verge of quitting, because I could not get my limit break 1 item in Eldieme. I played completely solo as a BST and so had nobody to ask for help, upto this point I could do everything alone so needed nobody. I struggled for 2 days and died over and over (I even had to go relevel and come back and keep trying), even if I did manage to down a Lich with my weak jug pets and reraise / dia the drop rate was so bad it seemed impossible. At the point of near just giving up a 75 BST checked me and sent me an invite, he spent an hour getting me my item and i remember feeling guilty he was wasting so much time on me. That simple action that really probably meant very little to him, changed my entire outlook on ffxi. I felt as if I was part of a community after that, the next day I carried on leveling WHM and would spend a lot of time helping other players (eventually on my main BST 75 too, wanting to do for others what he had done for me). I went from a complete solo player not caring about helping anyone to spending almost all of my time outside of a XP parties doing just that. Even today, FFXI still has this system in place for different things and most other games do not.
3. I like the way the auction house works, I like the economy where inflation and supply/demand are actually a thing and how everyone is interlinked more than on other games. I like that gil has real value for players and that to make gil you mostly have to get it from other players, farming items they want.
4. There is always something to do when you login. FFXI has so many long term goals and things to do that it's near impossible to have nothing to do when you login, on most modern mmorpgs you quickly run out of things to do becasue they are all aimed at casual players that complain about "grind" or "not respecting your time". As such they make the games now to appeal to non-mmorpgs players and I'm an mmorpg player.
5. I like that your server is your entire world and there is nothing outside of that. When I group up with some people, help some random person/get help or even just wandering around doing my own thing, I'll see the same names around all the time and I'll remember them from previous encounters. This promotes a heavy feeling of familiarity in your game world and world building, when I login and wander my home nation especially it feels good. It feels like "home" because I see the same people and have for years. When you play modern games you're mostly always playing with people off server, as such you're very aware you will never see this person ever again. So you have zero incentive to bother with them and they are instantly forgotten.
6. I like that the game does not tell you what to do at every moment, or that it's not completely linear (do this endgame, then this, then this in that order etc). Leveling is very open, endgame content has lots of routes to your goal (and those goals can be different).
7. I like that the game has long-term goals as standard. Whether it's getting +2 Ambuscade gear as a solo player, REMA or working on serious endgame gear with groups. Modern games are so afraid of people getting bored and quitting that everything is easy and short term. The problem with this is that gratification delayed is gratification magnified, so you will never get the immense feeling of gratification from anything on a modern mmorpg that you will get from achieving your goals on FFXI.
I remember none of the gear I obtained on most modern MMORPGS I've played, because it was easy to get and quickly replaced anyway. I remember every major piece of gear I've obtained on FFXI because I had to work hard to get them and there was emotion linked to that, from my Byakkos Haidate, Kirins Osode, getting my first Relic with the help of my linkshell, Dalmatica, my first Ambsucade +2 set after returning, completing malignance set etc.
8. I like that the game has more or less horizontal progression, there is always gear to go work for to improve but they don't wipe out your entire gear sets every 6-12 months. If you take a break for a year and come back, your gear is still good. Remember what they did with Abyssea with gear and how everyone was so mad? modern mmorpgs do that every major patch.
9. I like that they allow you to become really strong at endgame and that there is so much upgrade potential on your character (get to 99, get merits, get job points, get lots of gear etc), if you put a lot of work in it will show and you can become a beast. This is unlike most games where everyone is near enough the same and the cap is low to stop anyone feeling inferior. On FFXI the effort you put into your char/gear is significant and the game allows you to excel.
9a) I like that knowledge is important and you can't just overpower everything. For instance that Lillith can spike you to death and you need to turn, that a darkness skillchain heals her or how charm works etc. FFXI rewards hard work and knowledge, and that knowledge is figured out by the players and shared.
10. I like that FFXI does not have a single set of gear that you never take off, they have a macro system that lets you swap every piece of gear based on the situation or what you want to do. This means, you don't just work to get 6 pieces of BIS armor and a weapon and are done. You can get vast amounts of gear and swap between them. This builds into the "always something to do" system since there is so much gear to get.
11. I like the way the combat works, on most mmorpgs they have rotations of skills. So you're constantly pressing 1, 2, 3, 4 etc over and over forever. I hate this kind of busy work, because most of the time I'm doing casual stuff like farming or doing some daily activities while watching a movie. I feel like I'm wearing out my keys on most mmorpgs. Pressing 6 keys is no better than pressing 2 if the outcome is the same, it's just about fooling you into thinking you're doing something skilled when you're not. The combat also speeds up when it needs to (when you have buff jobs boosting you etc), and not always the same. Something else I'm really glad does not exist on XI is telegraphing, although this can be fun these games tend to overuse it and it becomes boring and very annoying. I don't want to endlessly move out of circles or red boxes while playing.
12. I like that the game has proper varied jobs that fill specific roles, for instance a healer is a proper healer and your job is -keep everyone alive- and that's it. There are pure buff jobs that exist just to buff the damage dealers, this is near unheard of in modern games. You can actually run out of MP if your gear is poor or you're playing poorly, the tank can lose aggro easily or a DD can miss a skill if you don't gear or play correctly. Modern mmorpgs make all jobs easy to play and very similar so no matter what job you're on, you're pretty much playing the same role and/or have to be really bad to fail to play it effectively.
13. I like that the jobs are allowed to be different and have strengths and weaknesses, I like that some jobs are far stronger than others for pure damage and that some jobs are situationally better than others. The jobs all actually feel really different and have different uses. Some jobs like BLU are incredibly fun and rewarding, you can change how the job plays or what spells it can use (blue can be pure DD, cure, crowd control, AOE murder etc) based on which spells you equip. Summoner on FFXI is fantastic, the avatars all look great and it's very powerful.
13a) I like that there is far more customization with your jobs on FFXI than on many other games, ultimately you do still end up fitting in with the meta but there is still a lot of customization possibility than you are allowed on other games. Subjobs, gear, weapon choices etc.
14. The endgame content is very unpredictable and can be very difficult (unless you're geared out the butt). I like that failing has consequences and doesn't just warp you back to the front of the boss to try again, when you have nothing to lose winning feels hollow. When I came back a few years ago, I struggled so hard with Zitah NMs. Beating my first one after failing many tries felt so good. To most others it's nothing, but to me it was a major victory and FFXI is full of things like this.
14a) I like how endgame isn't just directly linked to spamming different dungeons over and over, there are so many different things you can go do that have meaning. There is also far less stress put upon you to be doing specific things, when I play modern mmorpgs I very much do end up just spamming dungeons in group finder over and over all day. I very much do feel pressure to be doing that too.
15. I like that leveling isn't via stupid mini story quests that you never read anyway. I like that they just give you kill count quests and do away with the pretense that you care about "Fred Jones the hunter needs 10 rat tails or his house will be repossessed by captain crunch, can you help them brave adventurer?" "ok"
16. I like the crafting system, not only is it very difficult to cap out but it's very useful and linked to the economy. It also gives avenues of long progression if you choose to follow them. Sub-crafts, sheilds, knowledge of how to make profits etc
17. I like multiboxing, this is a niche enjoyment but I really like that I can not only multibox without having 4 computers but that the gameplay supports you doing it without automating everything, cause it does not have rotations etc. On other games I tend to make lots of alts and end up swapping between them for dailies, on FFXI I can have them all logged in at the same time and doing stuff. It does give an oldschool FF feel to me in some ways.
18. I like the customization via windower addons, the limitaitons of the UI was the mother of invention here and so we have all these things that a game with a more modern UI would never have.
19. I love the game world and how the developers encourage you to explore it and also to goto certain places to do content and not just let you warp into whatever form wherever (if you wanna do Amb you goto Mhuara, if you wanna do Ody you goto Rabao etc), I love how there is a nice mix or open/instanced/dungeon content, I love the deep lore where you can find things out years later that you never knew while doing the missions, I love the stories (even if many are bittersweet), I love the respect the developers have for the game world. Vana'diel feels like a real place to me in many ways, and this is not only for the things above but also because of the community aspects I mentioned earlier in the post too.
20. I personally like that near everything can be modded on FFXI, it's almost like a mini Skyrim in many ways. Not only from the perspective of making your own mods but using others mods.
21. I like how the game scales to the players and there are different paths, one person can be working on Ambu +2 gear as their long-term endgame goals when they login every day and another can be grinding out Gaol gear/upgrades. Everyone isn't just doing the same thing, and you can be a more casual player with less elite goals and be fine with that.
22. I like the music style, I like the overall aesthetic, character and monster designs. It's not stylized in a way that alienates people, it's not overly flashy and gaudy. A huge turnoff for me with 14 is the anime music style, art style, overly gaudy flashy OTT effects etc
23. I like that the game will not be replacing pictures of mithra with bowls of fruit or pandering to modern day SJW issues, the developers just want to make content and not push an agenda.
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