RadialArcana said: »
To people that lag in this, do you have the same lag in the base 3 sheol areas or is this specific to gaol?
Gaol: Unplayable Content Because Of Lag
Gaol: Unplayable content because of lag
Mostly normal packet loss in A B C. Depending on congestion.
Can you post this video on the official bug report forum? The devs wont believe the issue is on their end, as lag problems are usually related to your own ISP / router etc.
If they get video proof, they might finally do something about it.
If they get video proof, they might finally do something about it.
Ragnarok.Tylas said: »
I have tested normal Ody instances as well, they do lag but it is very much playable (1-2sec delay at most). Here a different packet 117 is spammed 30 times a second, which is documented as "unity instance start". I could not parse the packet either, so I assume they recycled that packet ID for some new mechanic in Ody, maybe related to mog segments or something. And I would bet I could observe the same in DynaD which has been lagging since they added the RP system a few years ago. I definitely remember running DynaD before RP without any lag whatsoever.
Seems Izzat is carried in that packet (no clue why)
Ragnarok.Tylas said: »
Edit: I have tested normal Ody instances as well, they do lag but it is very much playable (1-2sec delay at most). Here a different packet 117 is spammed 30 times a second, which is documented as "unity instance start". I could not parse the packet either, so I assume they recycled that packet ID for some new mechanic in Ody, maybe related to mog segments or something. And I would bet I could observe the same in DynaD which has been lagging since they added the RP system a few years ago. I definitely remember running DynaD before RP without any lag whatsoever.
This is extremely interesting and would seem a good start for the root cause analysis for SE. We have been living with this change since Dyna-D RP meters on screen, and because it wasn't hammered home to them it was ruining the game for us, they have kept using it for new events. Now they seem to have gone completely overboard. I'm hoping this does get fixed and as far back as Dyna-D.
[+]
It's important to keep in mind that Gaol is still minority content, the mass majority of players don't even have this unlocked or even do any odyssey content at all yet.
As such, the ones that have this issue need to be more vocal about it. You don't have the masses to kick up a stink for you, you aren't going to see threads about it on reddit etc.
As much a you may hate it, you have to keep on about this on the official forums as much as possible. Keep it a hot topic while it's new, once they move onto a new piece of content they are going to be far less willing to go back and address it.
Also need to be linked to the developers, that this is also in DynaD and is a long running issue.
As such, the ones that have this issue need to be more vocal about it. You don't have the masses to kick up a stink for you, you aren't going to see threads about it on reddit etc.
As much a you may hate it, you have to keep on about this on the official forums as much as possible. Keep it a hot topic while it's new, once they move onto a new piece of content they are going to be far less willing to go back and address it.
Also need to be linked to the developers, that this is also in DynaD and is a long running issue.
RadialArcana said: »
It's important to keep in mind that Gaol is still minority content, the mass majority of players don't even have this unlocked or even do any odyssey content at all yet.
As such, the ones that have this issue need to be more vocal about it. You don't have the masses to kick up a stink for you, you aren't going to see threads about it on reddit etc.
As much a you may hate it, you have to keep on about this on the official forums as much as possible. Keep it a hot topic while it's new, once they move onto a new piece of content they are going to be far less willing to go back and address it.
Also need to be linked to the developers, that this is also in DynaD and is a long running issue.
As such, the ones that have this issue need to be more vocal about it. You don't have the masses to kick up a stink for you, you aren't going to see threads about it on reddit etc.
As much a you may hate it, you have to keep on about this on the official forums as much as possible. Keep it a hot topic while it's new, once they move onto a new piece of content they are going to be far less willing to go back and address it.
Also need to be linked to the developers, that this is also in DynaD and is a long running issue.
RadialArcana said: »
It's important to keep in mind that Gaol is still minority content, the mass majority of players don't even have this unlocked or even do any odyssey content at all yet.
As such, the ones that have this issue need to be more vocal about it. You don't have the masses to kick up a stink for you, you aren't going to see threads about it on reddit etc.
As much a you may hate it, you have to keep on about this on the official forums as much as possible. Keep it a hot topic while it's new, once they move onto a new piece of content they are going to be far less willing to go back and address it.
Also need to be linked to the developers, that this is also in DynaD and is a long running issue.
As such, the ones that have this issue need to be more vocal about it. You don't have the masses to kick up a stink for you, you aren't going to see threads about it on reddit etc.
As much a you may hate it, you have to keep on about this on the official forums as much as possible. Keep it a hot topic while it's new, once they move onto a new piece of content they are going to be far less willing to go back and address it.
Also need to be linked to the developers, that this is also in DynaD and is a long running issue.
Asura.Wotasu said: »
Well it has been accepted as a Bug on their forums, so hopefully they are looking into to it. I just wish we could get a statement that they are informed about it and working on it c.c
If we want it fixed NOW we must pretty much flood the official channels with complaints. Just remember to stay civil, friendly and give useful information about your own experiences with this issue. And obviously don't link to this forum thread here or mention packet parsing, that might do more harm than good.
Odin.Sudra said: »
Wouldn’t a video be “using third party software” and only get SE to ban you?
SimonSes said: »
Question to Thorny, is it possible that if I get ping 350+, which would be more than time between packets, then SE server would try to send me twice as much data trying to keep up?
It really wouldn't be that hard to run some of the simpler tests like pinging server directly or logging incoming packet flow if you're interested in confirming or denying your idea that it's uniquely bad for your location.
Shiva.Thorny said: »
SimonSes said: »
Question to Thorny, is it possible that if I get ping 350+, which would be more than time between packets, then SE server would try to send me twice as much data trying to keep up?
It really wouldn't be that hard to run some of the simpler tests like pinging server directly or logging incoming packet flow if you're interested in confirming or denying your idea that it's uniquely bad for your location.
Not sure if using tracert is telling anything, but I did it too
What can you tell from that?
Tracert is just used to diagnose if one of the hops between you and your destination is having issues. It looks pretty normal, the biggest jump in latency is going through undersea cables(looks like your connection goes through US then through pacific cable to tokyo).
Pretty clearly rules out the ping as a direct cause, but to analyze whether something like you've suggested is at play you'd need to use an ingame packet logger and compare with someone else(ideally, both in same instance at same time). If the 3rd and 4th bytes are the same, but the time received is not, that's a resend. If you have significantly more resends than they do, it would lend credibility to the idea that SE is resending to you more frequently.
Pretty clearly rules out the ping as a direct cause, but to analyze whether something like you've suggested is at play you'd need to use an ingame packet logger and compare with someone else(ideally, both in same instance at same time). If the 3rd and 4th bytes are the same, but the time received is not, that's a resend. If you have significantly more resends than they do, it would lend credibility to the idea that SE is resending to you more frequently.
[+]
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Tracert is just used to diagnose if one of the hops between you and your destination is having issues. It looks pretty normal, the biggest jump in latency is going through undersea cables(looks like your connection goes through US then through pacific cable to tokyo).
Pretty clearly rules out the ping as a direct cause, but to analyze whether something like you've suggested is at play you'd need to use an ingame packet logger and compare with someone else(ideally, both in same instance at same time). If the 3rd and 4th bytes are the same, but the time received is not, that's a resend. If you have significantly more resends than they do, it would lend credibility to the idea that SE is resending to you more frequently.
Pretty clearly rules out the ping as a direct cause, but to analyze whether something like you've suggested is at play you'd need to use an ingame packet logger and compare with someone else(ideally, both in same instance at same time). If the 3rd and 4th bytes are the same, but the time received is not, that's a resend. If you have significantly more resends than they do, it would lend credibility to the idea that SE is resending to you more frequently.
I would need to find someone with no or small lag in Gaol first lol. I was there only 2 times and afaik everyone has giant lag.
Maybe it's just randomness but I've always had absolutely insufferable lag in sheol Goal with my main character (which has almost all available trusts) everytime i went there.
I tried today solo with my alt who has a lot less trusts (25), and it was almost lag free.
So I feel like as it was said before, trusts might be one of the issues.
I tried today solo with my alt who has a lot less trusts (25), and it was almost lag free.
So I feel like as it was said before, trusts might be one of the issues.
SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Tracert is just used to diagnose if one of the hops between you and your destination is having issues. It looks pretty normal, the biggest jump in latency is going through undersea cables(looks like your connection goes through US then through pacific cable to tokyo).
Pretty clearly rules out the ping as a direct cause, but to analyze whether something like you've suggested is at play you'd need to use an ingame packet logger and compare with someone else(ideally, both in same instance at same time). If the 3rd and 4th bytes are the same, but the time received is not, that's a resend. If you have significantly more resends than they do, it would lend credibility to the idea that SE is resending to you more frequently.
Pretty clearly rules out the ping as a direct cause, but to analyze whether something like you've suggested is at play you'd need to use an ingame packet logger and compare with someone else(ideally, both in same instance at same time). If the 3rd and 4th bytes are the same, but the time received is not, that's a resend. If you have significantly more resends than they do, it would lend credibility to the idea that SE is resending to you more frequently.
I would need to find someone with no or small lag in Gaol first lol. I was there only 2 times and afaik everyone has giant lag.
Hi Baniak, although I don't live in Japan, I experience zero lag in all Odyssey instances, and have almost half your latency to FF11 servers, I am willing to be a candidate for the test Thorny suggested, but you'd have to help guide me through it if possible. There are ofcourse much better candidates for this test like players based in Japan. A friend of mine based in Japan had between 1~3ms latency from his home connection to the FF11 servers. Also from the information I've gathered, I am speculating that users with 270~300ms latency are having similar issues, EU and some North American players fall into this category. I am in agreement with the OP's point that extra latency may exacerbate the lag in these instances, due to the potential packet re-send that Thorny mentioned.
My traceroute from Dubai to Japan FF11 (a month ago the route went via Singapore, but it is much shorter now and seems my ISP has direct connection routing with Japan.)
Code
Tracing route to ffxi00.pol.com [124.150.154.122] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.88.1 2 1 ms 2 ms 3 ms 92.98.10.2 3 8 ms 2 ms 4 ms 10.246.253.94 4 7 ms 4 ms 5 ms 195.229.4.108 5 119 ms 114 ms 115 ms 195.229.31.199 6 114 ms 120 ms 118 ms 195.229.31.199 7 162 ms 159 ms 163 ms 210.173.176.26 8 157 ms 159 ms 157 ms 219.117.144.66 9 157 ms 155 ms 155 ms 219.117.144.53 10 162 ms 163 ms 163 ms 219.117.146.141 11 159 ms 157 ms 157 ms 219.117.146.186 12 161 ms 157 ms 157 ms 124.150.154.122 Trace complete.
Hop 1 to 4 (United Arab Emirates)
Hop 5 to 12 (Japan)
some jobs seem ok on goal, just played GEO and the lag was real, average ping of 153ms from Middle of the US (ATT Fiber)
Ragnarok.Tylas said: »
I'm afraid you're right and us EU players need to be more vocal about this, as NA and JP players don't seem to have the problem and they make up the majority of the player base.
Remember as I posted before I have 2 paid accounts, and 1 char always gets the 6s delay, whereas the other one gets the 1-2s delay in Gaol. It is the same when running each account on its own on the same computer, virgin POL, no addons.
So something about the character must also contribute to the higher lag. Whether this is settings within FFXI menus, or gear they are holding, or some other factor that is character specific. I did try changing jobs to match each account but the lag stayed the same.
I'm happy to test things between these 2 accounts to try and narrow it down. On the surface they are very similar in terms of wardrobes, inv sizes and number of R15 gear from Dyna-D. I hadn't bought any Gaol gear until yesterday, and all my testing was before that.
So something about the character must also contribute to the higher lag. Whether this is settings within FFXI menus, or gear they are holding, or some other factor that is character specific. I did try changing jobs to match each account but the lag stayed the same.
I'm happy to test things between these 2 accounts to try and narrow it down. On the surface they are very similar in terms of wardrobes, inv sizes and number of R15 gear from Dyna-D. I hadn't bought any Gaol gear until yesterday, and all my testing was before that.
Phoenix.Amarok said: »
Remember as I posted before I have 2 paid accounts, and 1 char always gets the 6s delay, whereas the other one gets the 1-2s delay in Gaol. It is the same when running each account on its own on the same computer, virgin POL, no addons.
So something about the character must also contribute to the higher lag. Whether this is settings within FFXI menus, or gear they are holding, or some other factor that is character specific. I did try changing jobs to match each account but the lag stayed the same.
I'm happy to test things between these 2 accounts to try and narrow it down. On the surface they are very similar in terms of wardrobes, inv sizes and number of R15 gear from Dyna-D. I hadn't bought any Gaol gear until yesterday, and all my testing was before that.
So something about the character must also contribute to the higher lag. Whether this is settings within FFXI menus, or gear they are holding, or some other factor that is character specific. I did try changing jobs to match each account but the lag stayed the same.
I'm happy to test things between these 2 accounts to try and narrow it down. On the surface they are very similar in terms of wardrobes, inv sizes and number of R15 gear from Dyna-D. I hadn't bought any Gaol gear until yesterday, and all my testing was before that.
Asura.Wotasu said: »
Phoenix.Amarok said: »
Remember as I posted before I have 2 paid accounts, and 1 char always gets the 6s delay, whereas the other one gets the 1-2s delay in Gaol. It is the same when running each account on its own on the same computer, virgin POL, no addons.
So something about the character must also contribute to the higher lag. Whether this is settings within FFXI menus, or gear they are holding, or some other factor that is character specific. I did try changing jobs to match each account but the lag stayed the same.
I'm happy to test things between these 2 accounts to try and narrow it down. On the surface they are very similar in terms of wardrobes, inv sizes and number of R15 gear from Dyna-D. I hadn't bought any Gaol gear until yesterday, and all my testing was before that.
So something about the character must also contribute to the higher lag. Whether this is settings within FFXI menus, or gear they are holding, or some other factor that is character specific. I did try changing jobs to match each account but the lag stayed the same.
I'm happy to test things between these 2 accounts to try and narrow it down. On the surface they are very similar in terms of wardrobes, inv sizes and number of R15 gear from Dyna-D. I hadn't bought any Gaol gear until yesterday, and all my testing was before that.
I have the same amount of lag on both characters and on my alt i dont have wardrodes 3 or 4 i have 3/4 less trusts. Same settings on both chars.
It's possible that the packet avalanche is at the border of what the game can handle, and it's the total number of other packets that can push it over the edge. We might need to get someone who gets lots of lag and someone who gets less or no lag and have them compare total packets of all types over some period of time, then analyze the discrepancies.
I just entered on an alt solo and the load icons dissapered after 1 minute, had like 1 sec delay on actions, which is more than normal.
~44 trusts vs ~101 trust on Main. Same pc, both online, same setup. 24ppl in Sheol Gaol[2]
Alt 6 jobs lv99 vs main 20 jobs.
Entered on main, 4min in zone 2 load icons still loading. 5sec between action and effect.
7min in, 1 icon still loading
Unity (alt)Apu vs (main)Sylvie
Main have Ygnas.
Logging out just restarted the 2 load icons spinning for 4min+ again.
Entering the Conflux menu for a bit dropped R from 2800+ to 200 and latency dropped from 5+sec to 1~2sec. But upon exit R went to 2800+ again in a matter of seconds.
All have access to Monberoux
~44 trusts vs ~101 trust on Main. Same pc, both online, same setup. 24ppl in Sheol Gaol[2]
Alt 6 jobs lv99 vs main 20 jobs.
Entered on main, 4min in zone 2 load icons still loading. 5sec between action and effect.
7min in, 1 icon still loading
Unity (alt)Apu vs (main)Sylvie
Main have Ygnas.
Logging out just restarted the 2 load icons spinning for 4min+ again.
Entering the Conflux menu for a bit dropped R from 2800+ to 200 and latency dropped from 5+sec to 1~2sec. But upon exit R went to 2800+ again in a matter of seconds.
All have access to Monberoux
Asura.Wotasu said: »
Is the difference the numbers of availible trusts? or a Certain trust?
I don't have a list to hand (nor do I particularly want to make one, unless there is a script that can save them out to file), but I can say for sure that my main (1-2s lag in Gaol) has more trusts than my alt char (6s lag). My main is in Ayame unity and my alt is in Apururu so there is a difference there.
That would be kind of hilarious if the amount of lag was linked to how many people were in your unity.
[+]
Asura.Wotasu said: »
I just entered on an alt solo and the load icon dissapered after "normal" time, had like 1 sec delay on actions, which is more than normal.
~44 trusts vs ~101 trust on Main. Same pc, both online, same setup. 24ppl in Sheol Gaol[2]
Alt 6 jobs lv99 vs main 20 jobs.
Entered on main, 4min in zone 2 load icons still loading. 5sec between action and effect.
7min in, 1 icon still loading
Unity (alt)Apu vs (main)Sylvie
Main have Ygnas.
Logging out just restarted the 2 load icons spinning for 4min+ again.
Entering the Conflux menu for a bit dropped R from 2800+ to 200 and latency dropped from 5+sec to 1~2sec. But upon exit R went to 2800+ again in a matter of seconds.
~44 trusts vs ~101 trust on Main. Same pc, both online, same setup. 24ppl in Sheol Gaol[2]
Alt 6 jobs lv99 vs main 20 jobs.
Entered on main, 4min in zone 2 load icons still loading. 5sec between action and effect.
7min in, 1 icon still loading
Unity (alt)Apu vs (main)Sylvie
Main have Ygnas.
Logging out just restarted the 2 load icons spinning for 4min+ again.
Entering the Conflux menu for a bit dropped R from 2800+ to 200 and latency dropped from 5+sec to 1~2sec. But upon exit R went to 2800+ again in a matter of seconds.
Alt has 31 trusts it took wardrobe icon ~2mins and other invent 4mins which i think was the moglophone II which appeared once the bag icon stopped loading. R is going between 2.5k to 2.8k with a 4-6 sec lag for spells and some just appearing on the buff bar and no casting animation going off. Alt is on Yoran-Oran.
Edit: 7 people in zone
Of note is that when you're in Gaol and do an area search, you're also seeing people in the normal Sheols, so it can be very misleading as to how many people are doing Gaol.
I think amount of trusts is likely accurate and latency to server exacerbates it further.
just a hunch
just a hunch
Would be funny if they do a check on the trust you have, and it's monberux (sp) or that leafkin and they have a typo (I know it's probably not by name and a number on a table, but still) and it tells the server you have the trust but it can't find it so it goes into a loop of perma checking and failing to find the trust it says you have.
In theory it might start a new search each time and the previous one isn't properly ended so it just loops over and over. I guess not though or it would eventually grind to a halt.
Could also be something stupid like a . instead of an expected , after a trust name in the data table.
This might also explain why it mainly seems to be impacting ENG speaking players, the English txt data file is done by someone else (possibly a CM). Any bugs are almost always due to translation issues in that txt data file as opposed to the JP one.
In theory it might start a new search each time and the previous one isn't properly ended so it just loops over and over. I guess not though or it would eventually grind to a halt.
Could also be something stupid like a . instead of an expected , after a trust name in the data table.
This might also explain why it mainly seems to be impacting ENG speaking players, the English txt data file is done by someone else (possibly a CM). Any bugs are almost always due to translation issues in that txt data file as opposed to the JP one.
Asura.Geriond said: »
Of note is that when you're in Gaol and do an area search, you're also seeing people in the normal Sheols, so it can be very misleading as to how many people are doing Gaol.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2025 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.