I was doing some research about the Killer+ effects now that we have significantly useful armor with the effect on it. I came across this post https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/46182?p=573968&viewfull=1#post573968 .
It appears that Killer+ job trait only affects the probability for monsters to be intimidated, and nothing more. The jp wiki also seems to say the same thing.
Damage+/damage reduction- is mentioned on the bottom of the page, but says its only around 2% with a +10 bonus. That section references the Ferine Gausape +1 which says "Augments Killer Effects".
If anyone else has other testing about damage, please share. I don't know where the information on the BG page came from, so I added verification tags. It could have meant to read +5% damage max, and -5% damage taken max.
Killer+ Effects
Killer+ effects
Sneaky.
I thought that it was known (probably not widely known cause lolbst... right...) that you clearly don't get a 50% damage boost for a killer effect without using the instinct JA
If you go hit a level 1 rabbit naked and then do it again with a beast killer +50 it doesn't do more damage. (really easy test)
I thought that it was known (probably not widely known cause lolbst... right...) that you clearly don't get a 50% damage boost for a killer effect without using the instinct JA
If you go hit a level 1 rabbit naked and then do it again with a beast killer +50 it doesn't do more damage. (really easy test)
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Sneaky.
Yeah I figured a new thread would be nice for searching and future reference.
I'll ask here because it came up in some linkshell chatter. The BST JSE Axe seems to give killer effects even for families that BST doesn't have a killer effect for. Is that true of all Killer effect equipment?
All I've found is information about Arktoi, can't find anything else about it.
All I've found is information about Arktoi, can't find anything else about it.
Each +1 to Killer Effects gives 1% chance of intimidation against non-NMs, which is nerfed to 2/3s on NMs. Without Circles or Augments Killer Effects equipment, it doesn't affect damage at all.
The circle abilities (Arcane Circle, Warding Circle, etc) give a matching damage dealt+ and damage taken- (multiplicative with other sources) in addition to the intimidation rate. For example, base Arcane Circle gives 15/10% intimidation rate, +15/10% damage dealt, -15/10% damage taken non-NMs/NMs.
The Augments Killer Effects on Founder's Breastplate gives an additional 50% of the intimidation rate as damage dealt+ and damage taken-. The BST body you posted likely works the same, with a different multiplier if that page is to be believed.
As an example, a Dark Knight with non-enhanced Arcane Circle, +10 to killer effects, and Founder's Breastplate would have against Arcana:
35%/23.1% intimidation on non-NMs/NMs
32.5%/21.55% damage dealt+ and damage taken- on non-NMs/NMs if circles/Augments are additive, 35.125%/22.705% if they are multiplicative
I believe those 5% values listed on that page is specifically for monsters vs monsters, which has a slightly different system than players.
The circle abilities (Arcane Circle, Warding Circle, etc) give a matching damage dealt+ and damage taken- (multiplicative with other sources) in addition to the intimidation rate. For example, base Arcane Circle gives 15/10% intimidation rate, +15/10% damage dealt, -15/10% damage taken non-NMs/NMs.
The Augments Killer Effects on Founder's Breastplate gives an additional 50% of the intimidation rate as damage dealt+ and damage taken-. The BST body you posted likely works the same, with a different multiplier if that page is to be believed.
As an example, a Dark Knight with non-enhanced Arcane Circle, +10 to killer effects, and Founder's Breastplate would have against Arcana:
35%/23.1% intimidation on non-NMs/NMs
32.5%/21.55% damage dealt+ and damage taken- on non-NMs/NMs if circles/Augments are additive, 35.125%/22.705% if they are multiplicative
I believe those 5% values listed on that page is specifically for monsters vs monsters, which has a slightly different system than players.
[+]
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I'll ask here because it came up in some linkshell chatter. The BST JSE Axe seems to give killer effects even for families that BST doesn't have a killer effect for. Is that true of all Killer effect equipment?
All I've found is information about Arktoi, can't find anything else about it.
All I've found is information about Arktoi, can't find anything else about it.
[+]
Some stuff I did.
The Arktoi gives killer effects for all families. The annoying thing is the BST merits only apply to BST native traits.
The things that are annoying about trying to build for KE is the NM penalty and the lack of solid gear to use for it. A ring with nothing but +20 KE would be amazing. Instead we get crappy food with a +10 bonus...
The Arktoi gives killer effects for all families. The annoying thing is the BST merits only apply to BST native traits.
The things that are annoying about trying to build for KE is the NM penalty and the lack of solid gear to use for it. A ring with nothing but +20 KE would be amazing. Instead we get crappy food with a +10 bonus...
[+]
So SAM with Red curry+1, circle, 4/5 Mpaca and Founder's body would have ~41.5% intimidation rate, damage dealt and - damage taken against Demon NM yes? Sounds like Demon killing machine :D
SimonSes said: »
So SAM with Red curry+1, circle, 4/5 Mpaca and Founder's body would have ~41.5% intimidation rate, damage dealt and - damage taken against Demon NM yes? Sounds like Demon killing machine :D
You'd have 10 (trait) + 6 (food) + 11 (Mpaca) + 17 (circle) = 44%, but then reduced to 2/3s for 29.33% intimidation rate.
You'd have 17 * 2/3 (circle) + 29.33/2 (breastplate) = 25.99% damage dealt+ and damage taken- (or slightly higher if multiplicative with each other)
Asura.Geriond said: »
SimonSes said: »
So SAM with Red curry+1, circle, 4/5 Mpaca and Founder's body would have ~41.5% intimidation rate, damage dealt and - damage taken against Demon NM yes? Sounds like Demon killing machine :D
You'd have 10 (trait) + 6 (food) + 11 (Mpaca) + 17 (circle) = 44%, but then reduced to 2/3s for 29.33% intimidation rate.
You'd have 17 * 2/3 (circle) + 29.33/2 (breastplate) = 25.99% damage dealt+ and damage taken- (or slightly higher if multiplicative with each other)
I dont undertsand, why are you reducing circles by 1/3 twice?
I'm not? Base rate for circle 17 w/ enhancing gear, which gets multiplied by 2/3 for the intimidation rate calculation (to 11.33%), and multiplied separately by the same 2/3 for the damage calculation (also 11.33%).
I'm pretty sure that there is no 2/3rds reduction for circle damage. I just went out did spirits within with a basic 15% circle and did 2272 damage with 1976 hp which gives a multiplier of 1.15.
As a note, it is multiplicative. I have included my observations from my look into this for BST (see below).
What does this mean for SAM? Well 4/5 mpaca (11 KE) + founders + artifact hat bonus (presuming you can take it off after you do a circle 17 KE) + red curry + 1 (6 KE) + sam trait (10 KE).
1.17 (circle) * (1 + (6 + 11 + 10 + 17)/(2*100)) = 1.17 * 1.22 = 1.43 so around a 43% damage bonus and damage taken verse non-nm. Remember that this is beyond DT, so if you cap DT, you can sit at -71.5 DT while the circle is up and you are taking damage from a demon (non-nm).
Undead (Used Malevolence for +10 undead killer), Circle from PLD:
Crab:
As a note, it is multiplicative. I have included my observations from my look into this for BST (see below).
What does this mean for SAM? Well 4/5 mpaca (11 KE) + founders + artifact hat bonus (presuming you can take it off after you do a circle 17 KE) + red curry + 1 (6 KE) + sam trait (10 KE).
1.17 (circle) * (1 + (6 + 11 + 10 + 17)/(2*100)) = 1.17 * 1.22 = 1.43 so around a 43% damage bonus and damage taken verse non-nm. Remember that this is beyond DT, so if you cap DT, you can sit at -71.5 DT while the circle is up and you are taking damage from a demon (non-nm).
Undead (Used Malevolence for +10 undead killer), Circle from PLD:
Code
HP SW DMG Ratio WSD Nukumi Gausape +1 Holy Circle Expected Ratio Notes 2078 2285 1.10 1.10 1.00 1.00 1.10 +10 wsd 2076 2389 1.15 1.00 1.00 1.15 1.15 circle 2076 2554 1.23 1.00 1.07 1.15 1.23 circle + Nukumi 2087 2340 1.12 1.10 1.02 1.00 1.12 nukumi +5 killer +10 wsd 2087 3034 1.45 1.10 1.15 1.15 1.45 nukumi circle +15 killer +10 wsd 2087 2455 1.18 1.10 1.07 1.00 1.18 nukumi +15 killer +10 wsd 2067 2170 1.05 1.00 1.05 1.00 1.05 nukumi +10 killer 2007 2007 1.00 1.00 1.02 1.00 1.02 nukumi merits (looks like merits don't work) 2007 2107 1.05 1.00 1.05 1.00 1.05 nukumi merits + 10 killer 2027 2385 1.18 1.10 1.07 1.00 1.18 nukumi merits +15 killer +10 wsd 2027 2947 1.45 1.10 1.15 1.15 1.45 nukumi merits +15 killer + 10wsd
Crab:
Code
HP SW DMG Ratio WSD Nukumi Gausape +1 KI Expected Ratio Notes 1854 1983 1.07 1.00 1.07 1.00 1.07 merits 1845 2439 1.32 1.00 1.15 1.15 1.32 merits KI 1989 2088 1.05 1.00 1.05 1.00 1.05 KI (erased merits lol)
Asura.Geriond said: »
I'm not? Base rate for circle 17 w/ enhancing gear, which gets multiplied by 2/3 for the intimidation rate calculation (to 11.33%), and multiplied separately by the same 2/3 for the damage calculation (also 11.33%).
sorry it was late and I tho it was 2% per merit level. Too many calculations and stats yesterday XD
Asura.Epigram said: »
I'm pretty sure that there is no 2/3rds reduction for circle damage. I just went out did spirits within with a basic 15% circle and did 2272 damage with 1976 hp which gives a multiplier of 1.15.
The reduction to 2/3rds is on NMs only.
Without Arcane Circle: Weapon Bash did 227.
With Arcane Circle: Weapon Bash did 249.
Necro Bump Detected!
[547 days between previous and next post]Necro updating this, because of +2 BST body is out and I would like to makes everything clear.
So far I know:
Circle - only gives 15% damage/dt multiplier and add 15% killer effect, those values are not boosted by any other killer effects %. Killer Instinct is the same. It's reduced to 10% against NMs.
Nukumi/Founder - gives multiplier to DT and damage equal to 50% of killer effects % rounded down
Killer effect traits - 10% against normal and 6%(??) against NM
Merits - 5% against normal and ??? against NM
Food - normal % against trash and halved(?) against NM
So with Nukumi, Killer Instinct, merits, trait II we have
1 + (50% * (10%+???+6%(?)) * 1.10 = ???
I found this old test on blue gartr by Fwahm:
and we have test above too, but this line has probably wrong description.
It should be no KI and no merits.
So far I know:
Circle - only gives 15% damage/dt multiplier and add 15% killer effect, those values are not boosted by any other killer effects %. Killer Instinct is the same. It's reduced to 10% against NMs.
Nukumi/Founder - gives multiplier to DT and damage equal to 50% of killer effects % rounded down
Killer effect traits - 10% against normal and 6%(??) against NM
Merits - 5% against normal and ??? against NM
Food - normal % against trash and halved(?) against NM
So with Nukumi, Killer Instinct, merits, trait II we have
Code
1 + (50% * (15%+5%+10%)) * 1.15 = ~1.32 against trash
1 + (50% * (10%+???+6%(?)) * 1.10 = ???
I found this old test on blue gartr by Fwahm:
Quote:
Teekesselchen (NM)
364
374 (3% above base) Founder's
400 (10% above base) Circle
428 (7.00% above Arcane Circle) Circle and Founder's
404 (11% above base) Circle +1
436 (7.92% above enhanced Arcane Circle) Circle +1 and Founder's
364
374 (3% above base) Founder's
400 (10% above base) Circle
428 (7.00% above Arcane Circle) Circle and Founder's
404 (11% above base) Circle +1
436 (7.92% above enhanced Arcane Circle) Circle +1 and Founder's
and we have test above too, but this line has probably wrong description.
Asura.Epigram said: »
1989 2088 1.05 1.00 1.05 1.00 1.05 KI (erased merits lol)
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