Official BLM Epeen Vs SCH Epeen Thread!! Keep These Fights Clean!

So here isn't an assumption.



Amidoingitrite?

I lol'd, saw the butt hurt sch fanboy comments coming. You're fun, may we tango another time?

Internet went down entire iceday >.>; I'll try to get numbers tonight lol

Quote of the day.

Lets get this out now.

SCH can heal. SCH can enfeeble. SCH can nuke.

For a SCH to heal, they would need to be SCH/WHM (to heal at its maximum potential, thanks to the boost to MND, Auto-Regen, Divine Seal that /WHM gives, plus the ability to cast -na spells without using a charge)

For a SCH to enfeeble, they would need to be SCH/RDM (to use Gravity, to use Slow, to use Paralyze, to use Blind, to have all access to all enfeeble spells)

For a SCH to nuke, they would need to be SCH/BLM (for the boost in INT, for a better Magic Attack Bonus than /RDM, and for Elemental Seal because, lets face it, MAcc on SCH sucks anyway).

You cannot be all three at the same time. You have to have the specific subjobs to be good at any one particular subjob.

You can be "good" at one particular job, or you can be "medicore" at all (by subbing /RDM or /SMN) but you can't be the "best" at anything because thats what specialty jobs (i.e. WHM, RDM, BLM) are there for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjUfc0-Cx2g

anyone post this yet? i'm too lazy to check all the pages.

Edit: i knew someone would do it for me lol

8manning salvage? try 6 people and a thf mule and dont waste a slot or time farming ***for someone who wants to go sch

Yes, its something that SCHs can do by themselves, to justify their use.

I doubt that it will cause a need for people to level SCH, because the timing required to do it has to be down to a science (meaning you literally have to bot those characters to do it right).

While I gotta say SCH can push out a TON of damage (and yes, they sometimes can be better then BLM (SITUATIONAL!!!!!!!!) BLM (IF GEARED TO THE TEETH) will almost always come out on top, that is not to say that SCH is a gimp job (Hell, I have a friend with 75SCH, I've seen what they can do) I can't say my blm is geared good (actually it's not geared at all right now) but when I did have it geared I could hit upwards of 1.5-2k on puddings.

Once I get gil again I will gear blm again (and hopefully with some better gear this time)

Never said its a worthless job.

Said its 2nd or 3rd best at a particular part of what it does. Not the best as a certain SCH says that it is, but there ya go.

Honestly though, each person is best at their own job, SCH can be better then BLM, same the other way around, it just depends on how the person plays it.

Yes, but if you have two outstanding people, one as a BLM, one as a SCH, thats the debate.

BLM/SCH vs SCH/BLM, in the best possible gear.

Any/all possible bonuses that can be compared to each other.

Thats a fight I would like to be a part of.

They raise it to B+ which is a lower skill than BLM.

I like how this thread from 'post your epeen shots and discuss max damage builds' to 'epic BLM vs SCH thread mk CXIXVII'

Old arguements are old... more epeen shot (with buffs/gear/debuffs) please

I think you need to look up the definition of overdone. It means you have way way way way too much macc/skill. You can floor your resist rate on anything worth nuking with like 30-40 less macc/skill. So maybe switch some out for idk MAB since if I remember right you had 0 in your nuking set. Sure my blm could probably hit 360/120 with a good 10-20macc. Doesn't make it a good idea.

And here is how I call BS mostly just going to modify my old math using better numbers. Ok using backwards math if your interested I can post later but on my 1991 given my gear I got that the pudding must have had 75int seeing as I had burned...

Frankly it's just the backwards of what I'm about to do forward. I'm told that a taru sch only has 7 more base int then a hume sch and that there is only 2 int difference between blm and sch. So that being said a non meritted hume sch should have 14 less base int then me as a taru with int merits mine which is 85.

So with that Ent current set has him at 39int 21MAB with ugg active and another 24 MAB from /blm. Add on another 7 int from an assumed creme puff. He claims neutral day and we will assume ebullience for another 1.1 and 1.2. That would put him at 85-14+7+39int=117 and 21+24MAB= 45

So dmg forumala will look roughly like this:

D*Staff Bonus*Day | Weather Bonus*MAB / MDB *Target
Magic Damage Adjustment=dmg Well and 1.2 for ebullience

Where D= V (dINT * M)

V=541 for thunder4

M=2 for T4 spells

dint=(entint-mobint)

entint=117

mobint=75

dint=42

staffbonus=1.15

weatherbonus=1.1

MAB/MDB=1.45

magic adjustment for pudding=1.25 so

(541 +(42)*2)*1.15*1.1*1.45*1.25*1.2= 1719
Way way way shy of 1992.
Now to get to 1992 with the setup he calls out with just more int he could do it with another 48.5... yeah sure gl getting a brd to double soul voice etude you for that.
Could also get the same with another 23MAB. Which is more then any 1 job can add to another. Wizards roll is like 16 at most all 30 sec of momento mori is 20MAB and dream shroud is at most 10.

Or tl;dr that dmg is far from possible solo with his gear. In fact given he said on neutral day I don't think it would be possible solo with any gear.

Edit: Completely forgot medicine so int potion gives +10-50% int.... and 48 int is only 41% more int... that being said at some unknown inflection int becomes 1/2 effective and while you wont hit that on low amounts of dint you probably will with this much hell you might even cap dint with that much.

Simply not true.

I hit 330/120 (BLM/RDM) and get no where near floored resist rate on Sky gods. I challenge any one to provide a parse showing a floored resist resist rate against gods with less that 320/120.

I was exagerrating but look at that gear set again. He has like 322/120 AND over +20macc AND klimaform. That is overkill.

Edit: damn thing added up wrong he only has +8macc from gear... still thats effectively 330/120 and klimaform. How do you not floor with 330/120 anyways?

You can call BS anytime you want to, until you post a higher damage than 1992 on a tier IV nuke on a actual pudding feel free to drive yourself insane with math all you want.

And btw, it wasn't soul voice etude's... nice thought though should try that next and see how far it can be pushed.

Oh and also inb4: my AMII will do more argument.

I mean seriously ever since your 1991 got broken in 30 minutes of us being out there you've resorted to whining and crying over every little thing. Even going as far as to call my 320/120 build "too much", "overkill", or that it will "floor" when it actually doesn't.

Also there is no way you have every single math based formula down for magic damage, you may as well say you know how treasure hunter works as well. Sure quite a bit of it is common knowledge but all these numbers and attempted theories your prattling off is entertaining as you try to figure things out.

tl;dr you don't have anything down to a science, keep trying.

/endthread

Fine since were gunna take contextless dmg that was proven needs a bit of help to be accomplished here you go.




But sure later on I'll get a sch brd cor smn and blu up there with an int potion to see if I can break 3k thunder4

I think i love you in a totally non-homosexual way XD

rofl @ legendary with plasma pistol.

And thanks, being the fact i also have 75 BLM i wouldn't lie and say my AMII (only have burst II and freeze II though and not enough potency+) will of course do more...

Burst II is 287 MP... our Tier IV's are around 160~ with the 10% off from dark arts. At this point any BLM subbing SCH would say "oh sure i can do 50% cost stratagem too". But this is where the SCH would argue we get 4 charges at 1 minute each... and they get 2 at 2 minutes each.

The flat out point BLM don't want to admit (especially Dasva) is the fact that a SCH can compare in nuke damage and go longer thanks to sublimination. (And here we go again BLM's saying /SCH they can use sublimination but of course it won't be merited with AF+Relic that enhance it).

If you pitted a SCH/BLM against a BLM/SCH... i guarantee the SCH will do more damage before both are completely out of MP.

When me and Enternius were out at puddings some BLM's showed up and they rested 2 times in the time we did 1 resting period if that. Possibly even 3 times at some points.

And we will be sure to get a sch brd cor smn and blu up there as well.

Are you noticing a trend? Anything you can do we can do?

Jesus H Christ, it's as if you think we can't invite those same jobs and do what you do?

OH wait my SSs had the entire screen allowing you to see I didn't. Omg it's like I already thought of that or something!?! Weird

Then ask enternius to post it... did you ever think for a second that I'm the one who took the screen shot and that my buffs are not =/= to his buffs?

aka irrelevant?

It's because people dont know what a SCH is capable of...
I must get about 80 questions a day about sch 'can you raise' 'can you debuff' 'can you main heal'...

I always take SCH to nyzul and I would much rather take a sch over a whm, and I have both at 75. For those of you that said 'well Cure V is less hate', my -enm setup works just fine, I have never gotten hate from a rapture > Cure IV. Hell even did a rapture accession cure IV once, no hate.

I love SCH main healing.

As for Nuking both SCH and BLM can have their uses. I prefer SCH DoT kiting. But I am on BLM for nuking 90% of the time.

Honestly if people could drop this, it would be great. It really 'grinds my gears' when no one knows what they're talking about.


Oh yeah and quit the ***about SCH/WHM, it's not even close to being better than /rdm.

I thought it was obvious you took the SS? Which would imply he didn't take one right then. And it was much easier to rework the numbers a little. Either way the proof is in the numbers so theres no real need.

Aaroca is completely correct in every literal aspect she just mentioned. Completely unbiased, has all the jobs, and actually has experienced all of them first hand as I and Enternius have.

In Light Arts mode i have almost 900MP just as my WHM does. Can't forget about the merited emnity- stratagem on spells for both arts as well.

I have gone and much better enjoyed SCH/RDM than WHM/SCH in low man things and will continue to do so.

Nobody has even come close to the tip of the iceberg on SCH performance in every aspect... just flat out arguing over higher nuke damage numbers.

It's really rather sad.

I'm not sure how SCH can go longer than BLM thanks to Sublimation.

Any halfway decent BLM will be popping Sublimation and letting it tick up full, or as full as they can at least.

Now, back to the "2 stratagems" dealy.. To put out the same numbers as BLM (at half the MP), SCH uses 2 of their 4 charges, whereas BLM uses 1 of their 2.. Both being half your charges, both taking 2 minutes to regain.

Everything I've seen from a SCH that puts them remotely close to a BLM's damage uses Ebullience, which is fine, but using Ebullience and Parsimony to take full advantage of SCH's JA's means you have no advantage over a BLM using Parsimony.

Yes, your charges are restored 1/min, but you use 2 of those at a time to get high damage, low cost nukes.. Similarly with BLM/SCH, I use 1 charge, and wait 2 minutes to get it back, for high damage but low cost nukes.


If I'm missing some big secret about SCH, or simply overlooking something, please let me know.. but it's 1:30am and I'm going to bed >_> I'll check this when I wake up to see if any angry SCH's have eaten me.