Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better!: RDM Guide

I could be misremembering then, and its just that you wont get the haste effect but still apply the debuff for others, I just remember enspells/sambas, and things like auspice not interacting with each other well in regards to en-effects

Just depends really, with capped haste /dnc is generally better as you dont have to make many changes(dw cape, suppa, reiki and done) which then becomes do you want utility or shadows.

Below you still are basically weighing those 2 things but you also got some extra 10% delay reduction to work around that /nin can help pad. Personally i just prefer /dnc to have a "free" stun, and erase. Box step isnt too bad to have either, for a quick 5% down ontop of things like dia III and in your case you got 2/3 seperate def down sources

Also if you got a BRD then you dont need samba at all really except for maybe the war/sam, any march + HasteII will magic cap, so you're only 12% short, LR puts them way over so they could drop some gear haste, and SAM just needs any +hasso to cap them off. /sam with no LR means they're 2% short so still some use there

Does anyone have anything nice to say about the prime sword or dagger for RDM? I'm searching for motivation and doing something for my RDM is always super effective.

One of the nicest things I would imagine is RDM can use both Excal and Mandau in Gaol for weaponskill variance so either weapon would be a direct upgrade for that specific use for that specific content, no?

I think they meant 'prime' as in the Mpu Gandring and the Caliburnus weapons from Sortie.

Daggers better mandau isnt it? Swords main perk so far is PDL AM, and daggers got that too

Pretty sure he meant that RDM can use Mandau and Excal in Gaol for WS variance, so in extend, prime dagger and sword should be able to be used for the same reason, by they are direct upgrade (with quotation mark, so he wasn't sure).

Tbh I'm not sure if that's true. It kinda depends if you have TP bonus sources for that specific Gaol fight, since you can't dual wield, so you can't use TP bonus offhand.

I dont have time to make detailed math now, but Mecry Stroke with 68% damage bonus from R15 can be considered 8.4 fTP on first hit. Ruthless might only need like 1100TP and Moonshade earring to match that on first hit, but then there is still huge advantage of Mercy being 80% STR mod, while Ruthless is most likely 25%DEX/VIT, which is much lower.

Identical scenario for prime sword, which is probably 25~30% DEX/MND and KoR is 40%STR/MND.

Imo without some TP bonus (on top of Moonshade) like Warcry or at least Shiva's, Prime Dagger/Sword aren't really better than relics for Gaol, assuming you spam WS.

PDL AM is unusable by RDM in Gaol

Yeah I see it the same way as Simon. Which means I have to pretend I'm going to take BLU or DNC seriously to justify building either. DNC getting a real Light SC sounds pretty legit

Tbh for BLU Tizona is just unbeatable and Imperator doesn't really offer anything new. Now for DNC, dagger really fills the big hole in it's arsenal, by providing that powerful light option. I would definitely go for dagger if you consider the options for RDM+BLU and RDM+DNC.

So are the stat mods on the bgwiki page for Imperator completely off base?

We've been trying to calculate the sword numbers and it looks like the ftp values are probably higher but the stat mods are lower (more similar to the dagger values than currently listed for sword on bg)


also, primes really shine for their SC properties where you might overflow waiting on a SC partner or in the case you're TPing add > WS boss, because of their huge ftp growth you don't lose much by holding tp where the relics maximize damage spammed @1k

Sword does offer a 9 step skillchain full of winners for RDM.

Empy Arrow > Imperator x3> Savage > Imperator > Empy Arrow > Savage > CDC

If you miss a window, you can start up from anywhere to begin a new SC that is at least 5 steps long. No Requiescat to make it start bad, you only use CDC to double light where it will be worth throwing.

More realistically it's 5 step - Savage > Imp > Empy > Savage > CDC or 7 step - Imp x2 > Savage > Imp > Empy > Savage > CDC. Even Imp > Empy > Savage > CDC is an upgrade to current physical SCs.

The extra sword skill and 70 attack at max level might get some use with the PDL aftermath. Empy Arrow with tp bonus offhand and PDL aftermath is basically the ideal setup, shame the 70 attack isn't also 70 ranged attack. 10 DT makes your tp set 50 DT instead of 41 DT.

I don't think this would make it top of anyone's pile of weapons they'd want to work on, certainly not a BLU. The more I look at things like it has extra DEX/MND for accuracies/modifier stats, decent magic damage stat, and high damage/low delay; the more I think this was actually designed for RDM.

Sword can play nice with Prime H2H, Great Sword, and Great Katana as far as being able to go back to back. That's not a bad group to be part of tbh.

Dagger and Axe is somewhat smaller.

When making light, you are probably better off using CDC > Emp.A > SB (> CDC, for double light), with Naegling equipped. Trying to use Imperator in a light skillchain just sounds like a bad idea because you want to use Naegling to buff SB to make the light.

However, for RDM, a 3 step Darkness with a good WS can make sense. Imperator is competing with Req, CDC and Mercy Stroke. Mercy Stroke is the only actual competition here but is limited to a 2 step unless it is safe to use an AE (Evis > AE > MS > MS).

The prime dagger allows RDM to not have to rely on Archery and is 3 step, using a strong WS, to make a light. Dagger is also a good fit into SB (Frag spam) in sortie. Black Halo is generally better though.

If we are talking about light, without Naegling, Excalibur is another option as well (Req > SB > KoR > KoR).

The reality is that there isn't a situation where you'd be attack capped to use the PDL for a damage increase, self SCing, and the target has enough HP that it's significantly more efficient.

I have been doing some digging regarding Immunobreak mechanics and wanted to share some interesting information I've found.

Here is a dev post explicitly stating that enfeebling magic that can Immunobreak works off of a separate magic accuracy check apart from all other spells. This separate check is only applied to enemies. This should already be obvious to anyone that has compared their Frazzle duration and Sleep duration on an apex bat and found Frazzle always lasts for 1/2 duration while Sleep lasts for full duration.

This blog post is a test of trust behavior while varying their magic accuracy as some trusts won't cast certain spells if their magic accuracy is too low. In summary, they found that:

-Ninjutsu, Threnody, and Enspell II lowered magic evasion to their stated element but did not affect spells that could Immunobreak.

-Rayke was also found to have no effect on Immunobreak spells

This seems to support the information on jp wiki regarding enemy status effect resistances.

If anyone else has any more information/testing regarding Immunobreak mechanics to share, please do.

Did some testing a little while ago.

Went to Apex Draugar camp in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court with a Rune Fencer. Had RUN hit a skeleton with a 1 Tenebrae rune Rayke and then used Stymie Sleep immediately after. Found Sleep only lasted for half duration. This verifies that Rayke has no effect on Immunobreak enfeebling magic. If Rayke did have any effect on negative status effect ranks, Sleep resistance rank would have changed and would have lasted for full duration with Stymie.
EDIT: This is an invalid test to show Rayke's relationship with negative status ranks. See here for more info.


This blog post was pointed out to me some months ago. They found that Immunobreak can help land blue magic.

I decided to do some testing. Brought a BLU to Escha-Zi'Tah. I cast Sleep on a skeleton until one Immunobreak proced. BLU was then able to sleep the skeleton with Dream Flower (dark blased sleep). This verifies that Immunobreaks can help land blue magic spells as long as they are the same effect as the enfeebling magic used to trigger the Immunobreak.

Thanks to Offset and Shynoe for helping me out (^.^)

So I have to ask, for both of the scenarios you described for testing, did you only test each one once? It may take a bit of work, but to be sure I would imagine you would need a larger sample size for each of the two tests you did to be confident that it wasn't a one-off chance that it just happened to land, or that it would have landed anyways with half duration etc.

I can see why someone would think there is a need for a large sample size when dealing with resists. In this case it is not necessary due to how resist states work for the enemy type in question.

Skeletons have dark based sleep resistance rank of A+ (5%). Per BG:
This means that you are guaranteed to have your spell fully resisted when casting dark based sleep (with no Immunobreaks) on a skeleton no matter what.

For the first test this is where knowing how Stymie works comes in handy. Stymie basically bypasses the magic accuracy check of a level 4 resist by granting 100% magic accuracy, but the spell is still subjected to resist states. Therefore casting a Stymie powered sleep on a skeleton with no Immunobreaks will always result in a Sleep that lands for half duration (the lowest duration possible due to how many resist states the Sleep spell has).

Once you move up a rank:
There is no longer a guaranteed resist state level 4, and because there is no guaranteed half resist for Immunobreak enfeebling magic at or above rank C- (50%), any Stymie powered Sleep at rank A(10%) or below will land for full duration.

There is no need for a large sample size due to how Stymie interacts with the highest resistance ranks. As I stated before, if Rayke had any effect whatsoever the Stymie powered Sleep would have lasted for full duration.

For the Blue magic test the same applies. You will never land Dream Flower on a skeleton unless that Sleep resistance rank is changed.

Basically, it either works ot it doesn't.

Edit for technical clarity

Slight correction to be made with your guide, Gain spells do NOT cap at 500 skill. You can get more than +25 off them when your skill is over 600 so like Temper they have an even higher cap, at a skill of at least 626 you get an additional 29 to the stat when casting, which you should be able to get with skill of 600 however I cannot confirm if the minimum to hit that is 600, I can however confirm it is something above 555 as that still gets the +25 you mention.

I am not seeing that behavior. I casted Gain in a set that has 678 Skill, and got +25 stat. I then added the Viti. Gloves +3 back to get to 702 and hit +55 stat.

Could you post the gear you are using along with some other info like Mlvl, merits etc?

WRONG

25 + Gloves = Answer

the end

They DO cap at 500 Skill and +25 stat to the spell.

My RDM idle is at str+119 and with Gain-STR and Relic+3 hands im at str+174 which is +55. My RDM is at currently casting that Gain-STR with 662 skill in that set.

I'm not getting 30 though so there's something else there and I double checked that I was indeed not getting an extra 30. I am only getting 29. As far as the folks who are saying it's viti +3 I should get a 30 not 29...

Ah right I see what you are getting at. You are getting +54 with +3 hands? That would mean the set you are casting in isn't getting to 500 skill as I'm still getting +55 with 500 skill and +3 hands.

I'm casting with Enhancing of 623 so that can't be right. xD

Sounds like a gearswap malfunction. Casting in a different set than you think you are.

Did some more testing with negative status effect resistance ranks. I wanted to see if skillchains would change Sleep resistance ranks, so back to Ra'Kaznar Inner Court.

Test: Perform a Darkness skillchain on an Apex Draugar and magic burst with a Stymie powered Sleep with no Immunobreaks.

This resulted in a curious outcome. When Sleep landed there was no magic burst message in the log, just the normal message when landing a spell, and it lasted for half duration as would be expected from no change in resistance rank. Attempted the same with a Compression skillchain and also with an Umbra skillchain. Each time the Stymie powered Sleep landed with just the normal message log for half duration despite very clearly being cast within the magic burst window. Next step I decided to trigger one Immunobreak (without Chironic Hose) and then do a Darkness skillchain and magic burst Sleep. The Stymie powered Sleep landed with a magic burst message and lasted for full duration as expected with one Immunobreak.

In conclusion, it appears that skillchains do not have any effect on negative status effect ranks. If they did, Sleep would have lasted for full duration as it does with just one Immunobreak.
EDIT: This is an invalid test to show a skillchain's relationship with negative status ranks. See here for more info.

As for the message log discrepancy, it's either a bug or the game may be coded in a way at the highest resistance rank to full resist any magic burst attempt first, then do a check for Stymie, then the Stymie powered spell will land resulting in a normal message log. Could be anyone's guess really.