BGWiki - Issue Reporting Thread & FAQ |
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BGWiki - Issue Reporting Thread & FAQ
RadialArcana said: » These are not acceptable on fan site dedicated to this game: Private servers, Botting, RMT. the admins of these sites do not agree with you as evidenced by their actions, move on and move along. make your own ffxiah and bg wiki with blackjack and hookers GetHelpNerd said: » RadialArcana said: » These are not acceptable on fan site dedicated to this game: Private servers, Botting, RMT. the admins of these sites do not agree with you as evidenced by their actions, move on and move along. make your own ffxiah and bg wiki with blackjack and hookers I'm aware, but they should.
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Private servers are a complete detriment to retail, any way you look at it. It's obvious the guy got burned by SE, like many, and took it out on retail as a personal vendetta. Like you said earlier, he stopped caring about anything retail related just like most of those private server people.
They are completely delusional, they literally think that one server is like FFXI Reborn, its the "true FFXI". Even though the actual people who had hands in creating this masterpiece, sanction the REAL game. They poured their hearts and souls into creating a work of art that these absolute losers just want to see crumble and die. They actively cheer on the death of retail and think some dinky private server is the future of the actual game. I still get recommendations on youtube for all XI related things, and the actual crazy comments these people make is insane. The same push for ads for that one server, people are literally making videos showing themselves playing retail and it takes only seconds for them to come in and say "BRO, you should be playing this private server instead!" Actively steering people away from the real game. Imagine playing an online game for years, decades for some, and pouring countless hours of your life into it and making all kinds of connections and friends, only to later shill for a backwards engineered mess that a handful of people put together to replicate an era of the game where they felt some kind of power and control. You could write a whole book on the topic. It is pretty obvious that as the game gets older and people become more jaded due to SEs lack of care, we will find ourselves in situations like this where the community doesn't care about certain issues. Another reason against private servers, but Radials arguments seem very on point. It should be kept far away from retail XI related things, they have the resources to create and maintain their own thing.
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Yeah, remove those things off the wiki because private servers to some retail players is like the sun to vampires. I SAID some.
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Apparently BGWiki wishes to "provide a space for quality private server pages while also maintaining the utmost integrity of the wiki for retail", according to their own page.
While that page is still up and text above intact, that is presumably the stance of BGWiki. The entire page was made by dumbass, so theres no telling if thats the stance of BGWiki or dumbass. We have no way of knowing what discussions were made behind the scenes.
I think y'all need to be a bit more realistic about the devotion gap that exists between maintainers of these resources and you, the most engaged users. AFAIK, Scragg, Rooks, Sonomaa, Ragns, etc. haven't played FFXI seriously in a decade+, don't make significant income off the sites they operate, and work normal jobs. Keeping the lights on dealing with the admin overhead of the sites is probably the extent that they can bother with for FFXI and us. My honest guess is that they don't really have strong feelings about private servers one way or the other. I mean, BG is basically a social club where almost everyone played FFXI at some point in the past at this point. When FFXI shuts down, it'll keep going.
If you're an admin who feels generally responsible to keep the interest group you built alive, but you also don't feel very strongly about the topic anymore, outsourcing the more active admin stuff to people who are hyper-engaged and letting them drive it just makes sense. The amount of effort and attention that Spicy put into bgwiki over the years was insane. Even if he was a bit batty and maybe 50% of his effort was wasted, 10% was actively counterproductive, and he negated another 5% when he deleted the guides, the community still benefitted a huge amount from his time there and Ragns was correct to make him an admin. TBF, when he was made an admin at first I thought he'd last for like 2 months, delete the whole wiki, and we'd have to restore from backup. So about the general ask to remove private server stuff from bgwiki... you're asking Ragns to undertake a large administrative task to eliminate content that doesn't really hurt anyone for the sake of ideological purity. Now that it doesn't have a hyper-engaged admin setting the policy that it's okay, there is space for the next hyper-engaged community member to change the policy. It could be any of you. Won't be me. I was annoyed when I noticed it for the first time, but I wasn't engaged enough in bgwiki at the time to notice the debate about whether to add it and they did a pretty good job keeping it separate from the rest of the stuff. I may not like it and would be grumpycat:good if it was removed, but I don't have enough time anymore to be a hyper-engaged community member. Plus, when retail shuts down, at least the private server info on bgwiki will still be relevant.
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well said!
Anyone that really thinks these sites will remain and able to pay their running costs if retail closes is huffing copium, they will live and die with retail. 6-12 months after that were to happen these sites will be gone, and that's just the way it is.
If the people running them barely care now, they surely won't care when the people coming are 90% less and the costs > adrev. Supporting or condoning PS hurts the game that sustains everything in the ecosystem, so not only does it hurt the game and potentially lead to it closing sooner but it also would lead to the death of these sites too. If you say it's a big deal to remove those pages, then ok fine it's not going to happen cause they cba. Quote: Plus, when retail shuts down, at least the private server info on bgwiki will still be relevant. There are quite a few people who do care about this game still and are passionate about it, some of them are very skilled at the things they do. I would bet money on another server appearing if retail ever did close (and it not being based on the current open source one that has barely seen any work done on it for 6+ years, something far more advanced and closed source) so pandering to these ones that are seen as damaging our game (that are about 15 years out of date with retail anyway) right now ain't gonna be a good plan ahead either for their continued survival. Here is a site that will be around 20 years from now, and that isn't condoning PS. https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page RadialArcana said: » pay their running costs I can only speak for AH, but AH is, at this point, VERY highly optimized, performance wise, which means we run on pretty cheap hardware. The costs of running this place aren't nothing, but they're not onerous. As long as there's a community here, it'll be here. At least install a crypto mining bots in those boomers computers to fund FFXIAH!
Grass grows, sun shines, birds fly, and Radial & Draylo *** about private servers.
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RadialArcana said: » These are not acceptable on fan site dedicated to this game: Private servers, Botting, RMT. I find the idea of private servers vaguely interesting as a programmer, but I wouldn't put serious time into playing one. They're allowed as a discussion topic here because they are part of the overall game's community, for good or ill. Like RMT - which again, is part of the game and has been for some time, which is why certain users don't get yeeted into the sun - and tool use, there are restrictions around that discussion. None of this is new information, I've said all this more than a few times, but people seem to be forgetful so I'm here to lend a hand.
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Rooks said: » Anyway, get back on topic. Far be it from me to tell anyone how to make their rules but there is some inconsistency in the FFXIAH position w/r/t PS and botting.
PS: It's part of the community for good or ill, denying the truth of it is just preposterous Botting: it's part of the community, for good or ill, denying the truth of it is just preposterous. Also you can't talk about it here though. I don't care either way and like I said, I'll be the last person to suggest that the rules change or tell people how to run their site. Just pointing out that these two are both part of the reality of modern FFXI, but one is moderated and the other isn't. It's a decision that was made to treat two very similar (and harmful IMO) things differently. By both BG Wiki & FFXIAH, to be clear. I also don't particularly care that there are PS pages on ffxiah or bg wiki. I don't ever interact with them and they never show up for me, so they don't bother me in the least bit. If the people running those sites don't think the extra 2% of their bandwidth/storage going to some ***for PS people to use, then who am I to tell them otherwise? Not a bug or issue, it's a decision. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Far be it from me to tell anyone how to make their rules but there is some inconsistency in the FFXIAH position w/r/t PS and botting. PS: It's part of the community for good or ill, denying the truth of it is just preposterous Botting: it's part of the community, for good or ill, denying the truth of it is just preposterous. Also you can't talk about it here though. I don't care either way and like I said, I'll be the last person to suggest that the rules change or tell people how to run their site. Just pointing out that these two are both part of the reality of modern FFXI, but one is moderated and the other isn't. It's a decision that was made to treat two very similar (and harmful IMO) things differently. By both BG Wiki & FFXIAH, to be clear. I also don't particularly care that there are PS pages on ffxiah or bg wiki. I don't ever interact with them and they never show up for me, so they don't bother me in the least bit. If the people running those sites don't think the extra 2% of their bandwidth/storage going to some ***for PS people to use, then who am I to tell them otherwise? Not a bug or issue, it's a decision. botting is talked about ALL THE TIME here, yet botting tools are not allowed to be posted. private servers are talked about ALL THE TIME(by retail players being mad, 2% of the discuission is actual private server players), yet they are not being promoted. if you're saying talking about the private servers is promoting them then that still holds true for botting and is still consistent. find something else to be butthurt about you silly little retail shills Rooks said: » As long as there's a community here, it'll be here. Once the glue that keeps them together is gone, they will scatter to the winds. Seen it over and over again, and even though people say otherwise all up and down the mountain beforehand, it always goes the same way in the end.
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Suggesting topics on botting isnt moderated is just wrong. Bots exist and are part of the FFXI landscape, as you said. If the discussion devolves on how to bot or where to get bots, its no longer acceptable. This isnt a grey line, its very black and white. Even people asking how to use gearswap to perform automation that went beyond the intended gearswap use has been nixed.
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Sorry, I think I missed the botting section on this site. Is it the Japanese one?
 Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Sorry, I think I missed the botting section on this site. Is it the Japanese one? |
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