Election 2020 The Horse Race (Not Misspelled)

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Election 2020 the horse race (Not misspelled)
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-08-29 22:56:16
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Prong said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Vigilante, volunteer, terrorist: how the US media covers Kyle Rittenhouse

The teen has been charged with shooting and killing two protesters in Kenosha, but it hasn’t stopped some pundits from trying to humanize him

The Guardian

Or victimizing his kills.

I searched "kyle rittenhouse victims fact check" and it seems that there is nothing about the sex offender claim.

I did find this: Did Kyle Rittenhouse break the law by carrying an assault-style rifle in Kenosha?
Politifact

Searching "Joseph Rosenbaum fact check" I found no fact checks but two posts, both over a day old, with the sex offender claim, one of those refuting it.


At first honestly, I was ALL IN on just blaming this kid for being dumb, militant and shooting a couple people over an argument. Then, I started digging last night and didn't just take what was being presented to me by the TV press at face value.

1) All 3 who he shot were either pursuing or attacking the shooter with the apparent intent to do harm.

Now, the first one he shot based on video/first hand witness accounts seemed to be a mix of him violently pursuing the boy along with the fact SOMEONE (the journalist who was right behind Rosembaum"The Pursuer" stated) fired a gunshot. He could not tell if it was just shot into the air or at Rittenhouse "The Shooter," but he stated it was at that exact moment Rittenhouse stopped fleeing Rosembaum, turned to face Rosembaum, Rosembaum lunged at (apparently attempted to grab) Rittenhouse's weapon, so the boy dodged the attempt, then fired 4 shots, one hitting Rosembaum in the head. The journalist stopped to help Rosembaum and he said Rittenhouse circled around a car, then came back, pulled a phone from his pocket and called 911, then fled due to more attackers pursuing him.

2) From multiple videos, some clearer and more up close than others, it appears Huber "Man with the Skateboard" after Rittenhouse was struck in the head by a protester and fell, Huber came up from behind Rittenhouse with his skateboard in both hands. It appeared at least he was trying to swoop in to knock the weapon away from Rittenhouse or grab it, but at the last second, a black male swung by from the opposite direction and kicked Rittenhouse in the neck/shoulder area, then basically tripped up Huber as he ran away. Huber then seemed to actually stumble over the back of Rittenhouse, then Rittenhouse shot him as he stumbled over him. I assume he'd thought Huber had been the one who struck him in the head and watching the video, it would be quite understandable why he'd think that.

3) Then finally, Gaige Grosskreutz. the man Rittenhouse shot in the right bicep, the close up video clearly shows Grosskreutz pulling out a pistol and starting to aim it at Rittenhouses head as he sat on the street after being kicked in the head. Rittenhouse then raises his weapon and shoots Grosskreutz in the arm. Grosskreutz is later heard stating to his friend at the hospital, "The only regret I have is I wasn't able to pull the trigger and kill him." So, the boy had every right to defend himself in that case.

Rittenhouse was not in WI because he was "shipped in from Illinois" as some of the media is claiming. He was there as a volunteer local pool lifeguard that day while being part of a volunteer group who had come to help clean up grafitti that was created by the protests. Also, he did not bring the gun with him across state lines, a gentleman who owned a gas station a couple auto "shops" had put out a call (how it was not clear) that he needed help to stop protesters from vandalizing what was left of his property, so Rittenhouse and his friend attained weapons and went to help the business owner protect his shops, while offering first aid to anyone who needed it. Where he got the guns from, it did not say.

Now, I don't know what the laws on guns are in WI and honestly, I'm still pretty meh on the idea of some random 17 year old heading towards a potentially dangerous situation with heightened emotions, while carrying a loaded automatic weapon, but the facts I found clearly would get him off from, "first degree murder with intent" charges, which is what the DA filed on two of the counts.

The third attack is an obvious case of self defense, the other two it kinda depends. The first sounds like someone was actively chasing / hitting the guy, that's gonna be hella hard to prosecute as murder, maybe negligent homicide but not murder. The second attack, if there is video footage of the assailant chasing Rittenhouse with an object held in his hands then murder is going to be impossible to prove.

Yes the DA is over-prosecuting in the hopes of making the riots go away, the guy is not going to be convicted of murder 1 or even murder 2. Best they could do is negligent homicide but even that's gonna be super freaking hard if there is video evidence of people chasing / attacking him as it practically makes the case for self defense. As much as the liberals on here would like the USA to be a fascist state where they can convict and imprison anyone they don't like, we aren't and the requirement for unanimous jury verdicts makes conviction unlikely in scenarios such as these.

Remember they said the exact same thing about George Zimmerman when he killed the thug that was beating him.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-08-29 23:03:39
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Yes the DA is over-prosecuting in the hopes of making the riots go away,
And that will never appease them.

Even if the guy was convicted on both counts of murder 1, the mob will still riot, because the goal of the rioters is not change, but destruction.

Destruction of society, destruction of norms, destruction of civility.
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By Prong 2020-08-29 23:22:09
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Yes the DA is over-prosecuting in the hopes of making the riots go away,
And that will never appease them.

Even if the guy was convicted on both counts of murder 1, the mob will still riot, because the goal of the rioters is not change, but destruction.

Destruction of society, destruction of norms, destruction of civility.

100% and THIS is exactly the biggest issue I have with these, "protests." Nothing will sate their lust for carnage, nothing. You could give every black person a $1 million check for reparations and some would still say it's not enough. You could give this kid the death penalty and it won't matter.

This is why I tend to conflict with life-long, "activists." They never know when to lift their head from beating that same drum they've been beating for decades to see when they've won. If they were to dare admit things have even improved, let alone full circle basically, they'd be "out of business," so to speak. It's not in the nature of an activist to be agreeable. So they will spit in the face of any facts that prove they are no longer of any use.
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By volkom 2020-08-29 23:28:13
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when the dems start talking about crossing state lines with a gun ~ now they are concerned about borders
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By Viciouss 2020-08-29 23:39:44
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I missed this armchair detective work when you guys acquit murderers based on feels. I really liked the "make the riots go away" claim, no one in Kenosha has been rioting since this kid murdered those people. The Democrat governor called the National Guard in on Day 2 and that was pretty much it for the riots. Now if the DA comes out and clears the cop that shot Blake 7 times in the back at point blank range, I'm sure the riots will intensify. But no one was out there protesting because of Rittenhouse in the first place.
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By Prong 2020-08-29 23:41:02
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Viciouss said: »
I missed this armchair detective work when you guys acquit murderers based on feels. I really liked the "make the riots go away" claim, no one in Kenosha has been rioting since this kid murdered those people. The Democrat governor called the National Guard in on Day 2 and that was pretty much it for the riots. Now if the DA comes out and clears the cop that shot Blake 7 times in the back at point blank range, I'm sure the riots will intensify. But no one was out there protesting because of Rittenhouse in the first place.

So you want me to link the sources to you can just discredit them or ignore them anyhow? You're not worth it, do your own research.
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By Prong 2020-08-29 23:43:21
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And since you didn't ask, I completely agree the cop had no reason to shoot the dude in the back simply because he wasn't following orders.

Sure would be nice if they WOULD just follow orders but, I guess that's what makes them the criminals. I have no idea why the other handful of cops didn't just help the one guy out and all tackle the dude (even though people would *** about that, too)...at least maybe the guy would still be able to walk.
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By Prong 2020-08-29 23:45:55
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Viciouss said: »
I really liked the "make the riots go away" claim, no one in Kenosha has been rioting since this kid murdered those people.

Are you stating that shooting a couple protester works when it comes to deterring protests?
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By volkom 2020-08-29 23:59:41
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Prong said: »
Viciouss said: »
I missed this armchair detective work when you guys acquit murderers based on feels. I really liked the "make the riots go away" claim, no one in Kenosha has been rioting since this kid murdered those people. The Democrat governor called the National Guard in on Day 2 and that was pretty much it for the riots. Now if the DA comes out and clears the cop that shot Blake 7 times in the back at point blank range, I'm sure the riots will intensify. But no one was out there protesting because of Rittenhouse in the first place.

So you want me to link the sources to you can just discredit them or ignore them anyhow? You're not worth it, do your own research.

Quote:
no one in Kenosha has been rioting since this kid murdered those people.

Quote:
no one in Kenosha has been rioting

Quote:
no one in Kenosha

wat

the kid wouldn't be there if there weren't riots in the first place
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By Viciouss 2020-08-30 00:45:16
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Prong said: »
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Viciouss said: »
I missed this armchair detective work when you guys acquit murderers based on feels.

I don't need your "sources." The kid was in illegal possession of a firearm, then he committed major crimes with said firearm. He killed people with a gun that he was not allowed to have. He is all kinds of doomed.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-08-30 00:58:51
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Viciouss said: »
I missed this armchair detective work when you guys acquit murderers based on feels.

You must still be missing it, because that’s not what’s happening. There’s a huge difference between “this dude should be acquitted” and “this dude didn’t commit first degree murder with intent”. Not everything is a binary argument between two extremes.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-08-30 07:54:35
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Not everything is a binary argument between two extremes.
Except to a hyper-partisan like Vic.
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By Viciouss 2020-08-30 08:28:19
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Not everything is a binary argument between two extremes.
Except to a hyper-partisan like Vic.

Lol, is this your new buzzword? Let me guess, you are pretending you aren't a "hyper partisan?" That's pretty funny.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-08-30 08:35:38
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Viciouss said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Not everything is a binary argument between two extremes.
Except to a hyper-partisan like Vic.

Lol, is this your new buzzword? Let me guess, you are pretending you aren't a "hyper partisan?" That's pretty funny.
I face reality.

You do not.

That is the biggest difference between each other.

Yes, I'm partisan. But I'm not so blinded by my party that it becomes a religion, like you.
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By Viciouss 2020-08-30 08:40:54
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Like I said, funny.
 Ragnarok.Ozment
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2020-08-30 09:13:03
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Under any other president the kid would be seen as a monster, raised by delinquent parents. Not in Trump's America. His actions are attempting to be justified by the kooky alt-right for either (A) the people he murdered were criminals or (B) he was acting in self defense, the latter of which is preposterous. He chose to travel to a city he doesn't live in, and brandish an assault rifle at people. He's a demented killer whose real punishment will come after he is incarcerated and bunking with Bubba.
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By Rooks 2020-08-30 09:44:38
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I've mostly stayed out of this section lately, because things were basically calm (relatively speaking) and I was busy.

So imagine my surprise looking at things this morning and seeing ***like this:

volkom said: »
the kid wouldn't be there if there weren't riots in the first place

So, we're at defending dudes going out to murder people exercising first amendment rights now? That's where we're at?

I have locked the P+R section. I do not know when, or if, I will unlock it.

I am genuinely, truly, disgusted at this. The idea behind keeping this section open was that there could be something resembling debate and discussion, in a civilized manner. The progression from "maybe we should tax people less/maybe we should tax people more" to "hey if they didn't want to be murdered they shouldn't have protested injustice" really shouldn't have taken me by surprise, but that's on me, I guess.

If you have an issue with this, take it up with Scragg. Badgering me about it will lead to extremely predictable results. Taking any of this into the non P+R forums, even in jest, will result in your summary removal.
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