SAM Subjobs In 2020

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SAM Subjobs in 2020
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By Zhaoyan 2020-06-25 18:04:07
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I tried to do some head to head testing on the three main subjobs for samurai that most people debate about. This is by no means definitive or trying to end the debate but rather open the discussion. I did 3 one hour sessions, one with each subjob in my most common TP set on Apex Efts spamming Fudo. I used Yoran, Qultada, Ulmia, and Koru trusts. ACC/ATK/DEF numbers are in TP set with 0 buffs.

main={ name="Masamune", augments={'Path: A',}},
sub="Utu Grip",
ammo="Ginsen",
head="Flam. Zucchetto +2",
body="Ken. Samue +1",
hands="Wakido Kote +3",
legs="Ken. Hakama +1",
feet={ name="Ryuo Sune-Ate +1", augments={'HP+65','"Store TP"+5','"Subtle Blow"+8',}},
neck="Moonlight Nodowa",
waist="Ioskeha Belt +1",
left_ear="Dedition Earring",
right_ear="Brutal Earring",
left_ring="Flamma Ring",
right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
back={ name="Smertrios's Mantle", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','Accuracy+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10','Damage taken-5%',}},

SAM/DRK ACC: 1179 ATK: 1420 DEF: 1236
10,515,794 total damage, 18362 WS avg
3404 dps, 1546 scdps, 95.12% melee acc
Buffs: Last Resort, Meditate

SAM/DRG ACC: 1188 ATK: 1342 DEF: 1236
9,334,017 total damage, 16487 WS avg
2950 dps, 1329 scdps, 94.24% melee acc
Buffs: Meditate

SAM/WAR ACC: 1179 ATK: 1344 DEF: 1255
9,943,409 total damage, 17520 WS avg
3172 dps, 1450 scdps, 94.91% melee acc
Buffs: Berserk, Warcry, Meditate
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By Pantafernando 2020-06-25 19:15:10
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Ive started to try farming lilith i guess i could try /DRG. Maybe that extra 7% WSD can make easier to finish the fight.

As my set isnt the BiS neither im a masa owner, most fight i always need to resort to an extra WS after 4-steps. Maybe this extra WSD can help ensuring her first form dies in a 4-steps and gives more room while on yeagasumi on second form.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-06-25 19:42:19
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I use /DRG
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 Cpu
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By Cpu 2020-06-25 20:30:29
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If you're not attack capped then whichever subjob gives you the most attack is going to win. If you didn't use trusts then maybe even /WHM could win out since you'd have access to dia2. You need to compare fully buffed parses for the output to matter at all in relation to end-game content.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-25 20:42:53
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Everyone knows that /GEO is the way to go.
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 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2020-06-25 21:06:09
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Cpu said: »
If you're not attack capped then whichever subjob gives you the most attack is going to win. If you didn't use trusts then maybe even /WHM could win out since you'd have access to dia2. You need to compare fully buffed parses for the output to matter at all in relation to end-game content.

There were times in my linkshell where I topped parse charts as SAM/WHM because I forgot to swap subjob lmao best flex ever. Hard carry by bard corsair and geo tho.
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By Zhaoyan 2020-06-26 00:32:59
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Cpu said: »
If you're not attack capped then whichever subjob gives you the most attack is going to win. If you didn't use trusts then maybe even /WHM could win out since you'd have access to dia2. You need to compare fully buffed parses for the output to matter at all in relation to end-game content.

For the average player, "not attack capped" is the majority of the time they're playing. Like I said, the point of the post wasn't to give an answer but start the discussion on which subjobs you use and why, and what your results have been. Something a little more in depth than "I /war cause the guide says so."
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-06-26 01:07:05
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Here it goes. I'm not even going to get involved, I just want to say one thing.

If you think anyone on this entire forum (except for me and maybe two other people) thinks "uncapped attack" even exists as a possibility, forget about it.

Every single person here is buff capped even while in their moghouse
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By Prong 2020-06-26 01:23:01
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Sub DRG in Dyna D so you can use Jump to shed hate when Fudo #2 inevitably misses.

Other than that, sub BLM for Warp.
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-06-26 02:00:27
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My rules of thumb:
If limited buffs, WAR sub. Berserk and Tachi: Ageha will go a long way to helping get a better edge on pDIF values and the DA also helps with TP generation even if only slightly.

If solid/near-max buffs, DRG sub. With High Buffs, your pDIF woes will more or less be handled, especially if you open with Ageha leaving the +7% Total WSD to really drill into the mob. Also the added benefit of High-Jump if you pull hate and the thing isn't dead yet. (SAM is Squishy)

I cannot endorse the use of DRK sub however unless you are trying to lean on Seigan and Third Eye for whatever odds and ends or you really need that bash-stun. Last Resort gives JA-Haste +15% but as long as you have AF Gloves +2/3 you'll have 13/14%. And with Magic Haste cap, you are actually over-capped on Delay. (Magic Haste is very easily capped and I dare say mandatory for any group play) So for SAM in particular it's effectively WAR sub but without the DA?
Possibly useful if you have no haste at all? *shrugs*
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-26 02:06:35
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Prong said: »
Fudo #2 inevitably misses.

The single most inaccurate WS in the game, bar none.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-06-26 02:20:15
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Prong said: »
Fudo #2 inevitably misses.

The single most inaccurate WS in the game, bar none.

1 in every 20 Fudos will wiff and there is nothing you can do to stop it.. I can imagine some SE nerd snickering behind a desk at that built-in limitation...
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 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-06-26 05:05:57
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Just use your forced miss on your auto attack instead so your WS lands, bro.
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By Aerison 2020-06-26 09:07:05
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Odin.Llewelyn said: »
Just use your forced miss on your auto attack instead so your WS lands, bro.

200iq
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-26 09:35:17
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It's more like 1/10 fudo
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By Pantafernando 2020-06-26 09:36:59
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Higher chance to miss in the last step of your combo.
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By Zhaoyan 2020-06-26 14:02:11
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I guess a more appropriate title for this post should have been SAM subjobs in 2020 for people who don't play on Asura. Having spent years on Asura I understand it's expected, and mostly demanded, that in any group setting, even content as easy as SR, that every DD be given capped attack delay and capped pDIF at all times, regardless of mob debuffs. However, on smaller servers this isn't the case at all. A lot of players on smaller servers don't even know what the term pDIF refers to. On Bahamut it's difficult to even find a GEO and the few Idris GEO's on the server mostly belong to the merc groups, and there are even fewer BRD's than GEO's.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2020-06-26 14:08:38
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Zhaoyan said: »
I guess a more appropriate title for this post should have been SAM subjobs in 2020 for people who don't play on Asura. Having spent years on Asura I understand it's expected, and mostly demanded, that in any group setting, even content as easy as SR, that every DD be given capped attack delay and capped pDIF at all times, regardless of mob debuffs. However, on smaller servers this isn't the case at all. A lot of players on smaller servers don't even know what the term pDIF refers to. On Bahamut it's difficult to even find a GEO and the few Idris GEO's on the server mostly belong to the merc groups, and there are even fewer BRD's than GEO's.

If attack is capped or enmity may be an issue /drg
if not attack cap or need provoke /war

What server you are on has no input on when you are attack capped or not. I don't play with you or know what support you get hence simple answer above. Tons of people play on servers that are not Asura and cap attack.
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 Bahamut.Belkin
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By Bahamut.Belkin 2020-06-26 14:16:43
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Last Resort already on the macro bar, no takesies-backsies.
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By Zhaoyan 2020-06-26 14:47:57
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Asura.Bippin said: »
Zhaoyan said: »
I guess a more appropriate title for this post should have been SAM subjobs in 2020 for people who don't play on Asura. Having spent years on Asura I understand it's expected, and mostly demanded, that in any group setting, even content as easy as SR, that every DD be given capped attack delay and capped pDIF at all times, regardless of mob debuffs. However, on smaller servers this isn't the case at all. A lot of players on smaller servers don't even know what the term pDIF refers to. On Bahamut it's difficult to even find a GEO and the few Idris GEO's on the server mostly belong to the merc groups, and there are even fewer BRD's than GEO's.

If attack is capped or enmity may be an issue /drg
if not attack cap or need provoke /war


What server you are on has no input on when you are attack capped or not. I don't play with you or know what support you get hence simple answer above. Tons of people play on servers that are not Asura and cap attack.

It doesn't have any affect on WHEN you're attack capped but it definitely has an effect on IF you're attack capped. I've been on Bahamut for about 6 months now and I can definitely tell you, when I'm in Dyna yes, haste and attack are non-issues but MOST players on the server in MOST content are lucky if they have Haste II from a RDM. My hope is that more casual players who ask these questions a lot will read yours and others comments and understand that there is a difference based on what buffs you have. That's why I wanted to get a baseline with minimal buffs before doing further testing with real party buffs.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-06-26 16:37:37
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Zhaoyan said: »
I guess a more appropriate title for this post should have been SAM subjobs in 2020 for people who don't play on Asura.

Idk about that one, I've been on Asura for about 4 years now? Before that I was on Valefor and thats about as small as it gets and even there we all understand that capping Acc and Haste are the most important things to do and that was about the only thing that was always always done. Regular Dunna GEO, WHM, Basic BRD (like no Gjallarhorn - basic) or MG BLU, doesnt matter, you're getting that damn haste capped or we ain't doin' nothing lol.

Like seriously, if you aren't getting that, you gotta draw the line in the sand cuz if you cant at least get your Haste up, it might not even be worth it to use a DD method. Maybe consider changing to Magic Burst or RNGs instead or something, it's THAT basic and too much of a boost to do without. Educate your group, try to work with them or something.

Capping or at least denting pDIF is another easy one with lots and lots of options but I can see that one being less available which is why WAR Sub is always an option that should be kept in the back pocket. If you can't get a decent GEO and COR and all that good stuff, Berserk and Ageha help so much its not even funny.
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By malakef 2020-06-26 18:12:19
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Zhaoyan said: »
On Bahamut it's difficult to even find a GEO and the few Idris GEO's on the server mostly belong to the merc groups, and there are even fewer BRD's than GEO's.

Dumbest thing I read here in a while. And that’s saying something. My LS don’t merc and last count we had 9 Idris in shell. Brd shortage maybe but everybody got GEO’s...
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By Zhaoyan 2020-06-26 19:31:57
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malakef said: »
Zhaoyan said: »
On Bahamut it's difficult to even find a GEO and the few Idris GEO's on the server mostly belong to the merc groups, and there are even fewer BRD's than GEO's.

Dumbest thing I read here in a while. And that’s saying something. My LS don’t merc and last count we had 9 Idris in shell. Brd shortage maybe but everybody got GEO’s...

Maybe that's why there's no GEO's on the server, you're hoarding them all in your LS. lol What LS btw?
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By Zhaoyan 2020-06-26 19:43:33
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I did some further testing on the same mobs with the same self buffs only with capped haste and I'm assuming capped attack or close to it with regal cor and dunna geo buffs. Long story short.

SAM/DRK 4846 dps 2067 scdps
SAM/DRG 4960 dps 2086 scdps
SAM/WAR 4806 dps 2034 scdps
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