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Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)
 Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:03:53
Myrien said: The biggest problem with it is you cannot rest while an avatar is out. That means in 99% of the time it is entirely unfeasible and undesirable to have an avatar out for longer than 5 min+, because you'll likely be out of mp and unable to do anything except provide a 4-5 mp/tick refresh. The refresh would apply to the SMN as well, surely?[/quote] well carby can be out for free and still have native auto refresh working so can spam healing ruby II. right now my garudas down to like 4 mp a tick and i still need 2 more - prep pieces. if memory servers fenrir is less then others sept carby. diabolos has the most expensive but with the refresh it might negate that along with reduced prep cost . Also remember with/sch smner can be refilling there mp for around 250 every so many mins.
 Fenrir.Razushu
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Fenrir.Razushu 2009-10-21 07:03:55
Arroon said:
Although i agree Smn are not full time buffers, i do have to say that any Smn worth his/her salt can perminantly keep 2-3 buffs up at a time. not just restricted to 1. This gets alot easier at high levels when alot of Smn Magic skill+ gear becomes available
Agreed i kept Ecliptical howl and ecliptical growl and hastega on a bird party pretty much full time once with no summoning magic skill over cap with little trouble
 Fairy.Myrien
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Fairy.Myrien 2009-10-21 07:04:43
Wooooodum said: The refresh would apply to the SMN as well, surely? If SE gives enough refresh/-perp to regenerate MP faster than resting then they'll have finally broken this game. Without it giving an accuracy or haste bonus, I just don't see it being worthwhile to keep out for long enough to establish a big boost. You're missing out on way too much hMP.
Kujata.Segaia
Serveur: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Kujata.Segaia 2009-10-21 07:05:13
Blindphleb said: :/ Hastega for 128mp sounds ok to me...
Costs my Rdm 200mp to put it on only 5 people.
I agree that smn isn't a buffer in the Brd or Cor sense, but to deny that smn has unique buffing abilities that were obviously enhanced in this update is shortsighted. It's not like SE suddenly pulled the idea that smn should be a buffing job out of thin air. Never had any critique about their buffs, because i very much welcome them at any time. It is the MP-cost that at first look might be ok, but adding the perp. cost for the duration and the execution of the buff with the actually mp-cost for the summon you get numbers that are too high to call them "efficient". Since the introduction of SCH this even became more the truth. Sure, SMNs have a lot mp to support theese abilities, but still it is unfair in comparison to other jobs. That's why i said that it is a good update for SMN. Theese buffs actually are awesome in terms of MP-effiency in comparison to BP:W-abilities if they work how SE explains them.
Serveur: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-10-21 07:05:59
Razushu said: Agreed i kept Ecliptical howl and ecliptical growl and hastega on a bird party pretty much full time once with no summoning magic skill over cap with little trouble Segaia was referring to the bonuses from having the avatar out, since those are the ones being compared to Corsair. You can only have one avatar out at a time, so therefore, you can only have one of these new buffs active at a time. Whereas, Corsair's can have two rolls active at once.
 Siren.IhmVIP
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 688
By Siren.Ihm 2009-10-21 07:08:10
I'm pretty sure they will effect the SMN due to the fact, Ifrit is out and the SMN is engaged, makes me thinks the SMN is doing it due to Ifrits buff, maybe thats just me though?
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:09:29
Nightmare gloves + sleep potions + tp collar + spirit taker lol
or hope staff with spirit taker spam
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Valefor.Shadowgabriel 2009-10-21 07:09:42
Um just a small point but corsairs "lucky" refresh roll without a smn is only 3mp/tic as it's an 11 roll which gives 4. Still nice to see that smns get an upgrade at last though ^.^
Bahamut.Branwen
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 377
By Bahamut.Branwen 2009-10-21 07:11:25
Theyve managed to update the job to make it even less of a DD job and even more support... woo go SE!
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1488
By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2009-10-21 07:11:58
Wooooodum said: Blindphleb said: but to deny that smn has unique buffing abilities that were obviously enhanced in this update is shortsighted. It's not like SE suddenly pulled the idea that smn should be a buffing job out of thin air. Nobody was doing that. Then I must have misunderstood your stance, my apologies.
Fenrir.Razushu
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Fenrir.Razushu 2009-10-21 07:12:02
Wooooodum said: Razushu said: Agreed i kept Ecliptical howl and ecliptical growl and hastega on a bird party pretty much full time once with no summoning magic skill over cap with little trouble Segaia was referring to the bonuses from having the avatar out, since those are the ones being compared to Corsair. You can only have one avatar out at a time, so therefore, you can only have one of these new buffs active at a time. Whereas, Corsair's can have two rolls active at once. Sorry I was referring to Arroon's reply to Segaia that we can have 2-3 buff going at once without anything special needed
Fairy.Myrien
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Fairy.Myrien 2009-10-21 07:16:27
Rowland said: So basically, I can start going smn to dynamis now and have a free diabolos (most likely in the blm party)? You don't want BST or SMN pets active because they can interfere with sleeping and get people killed.
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:19:24
just a thought, with being able control what tp move your pet does like having it do breath moves as shown with the fungar would Saurian Helm increase that move since bst can wear it?
Bahamut.Branwen
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 377
By Bahamut.Branwen 2009-10-21 07:19:57
It doesnt say how much the - perp will be. It's either going to be a massive amount of - perp, which will mean smn can use their avatars without burning through all their mp, BUT I would think if this happens the energy "channeled" from your avatar will make it usless at doing anything vaguely DD orientated.
Or, its going to only have a small effect on the - perp, and less of a dent in the energy "channeled" from them.
I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like we gimp our avatar in exchange for buffs.
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:21:47
Myrien said: Rowland said: So basically, I can start going smn to dynamis now and have a free diabolos (most likely in the blm party)? You don't want BST or SMN pets active because they can interfere with sleeping and get people killed. naa gone smner several time and been no probs, bst might be more cus would take to long to engage then hit the jas to be effective assuming yor group kills mobs fast.
Bahamut.Branwen
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 377
By Bahamut.Branwen 2009-10-21 07:23:17
Myrien said: Rowland said: So basically, I can start going smn to dynamis now and have a free diabolos (most likely in the blm party)? You don't want BST or SMN pets active because they can interfere with sleeping and get people killed. What would be awesome is the ability to turn your avatars/pets auto attack off. Would mean that SMN and BST are less likely to wipe a pt due to their pets need to hit anything that their master has hate on.
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:24:45
Branwen said: It doesnt say how much the - perp will be. It's either going to be a massive amount of - perp, which will mean smn can use their avatars without burning through all their mp, BUT I would think if this happens the energy "channeled" from your avatar will make it usless at doing anything vaguely DD orientated.
Or, its going to only have a small effect on the - perp, and less of a dent in the energy "channeled" from them.
I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like we gimp our avatar in exchange for buffs. if u /sch u can use subligation for bps mp + dark arts aspir if mob has mp and if u can get away with dding (no resting means able use acc food instead cookies) can do spirit taker.
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:26:20
Branwen said: Myrien said: Rowland said: So basically, I can start going smn to dynamis now and have a free diabolos (most likely in the blm party)? You don't want BST or SMN pets active because they can interfere with sleeping and get people killed. What would be awesome is the ability to turn your avatars/pets auto attack off. Would mean that SMN and BST are less likely to wipe a pt due to their pets need to hit anything that their master has hate on. need that in sea , died couple time cus forgot to get rid avatar when running and those goldfish started following me ; ;
Remora.Ninian
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1667
By Remora.Ninian 2009-10-21 07:29:45
I can see me being SMN in BLM parties now during Dynamis. That's probably it, though. *** awesome still, I love SMN.
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-10-21 07:29:52
Branwen said: It doesnt say how much the - perp will be. It's either going to be a massive amount of - perp, which will mean smn can use their avatars without burning through all their mp, BUT I would think if this happens the energy "channeled" from your avatar will make it usless at doing anything vaguely DD orientated.
Or, its going to only have a small effect on the - perp, and less of a dent in the energy "channeled" from them.
I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like we gimp our avatar in exchange for buffs. Hell, even if its only perp-2, I will still get free Gaurda and +1 perp Carby (most everyone will get +1 Carby, those with YYR will get +2 Carby)...... ....now that I think about it, this ability just made YYR usable. And I don't think it will weaken the avatar at all to be honest. This is just a boost to get SMNs into parties more often and not be a bad WHM.
Bahamut.Branwen
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 377
By Bahamut.Branwen 2009-10-21 07:31:23
Heimdall said: Branwen said: It doesnt say how much the - perp will be. It's either going to be a massive amount of - perp, which will mean smn can use their avatars without burning through all their mp, BUT I would think if this happens the energy "channeled" from your avatar will make it usless at doing anything vaguely DD orientated.
Or, its going to only have a small effect on the - perp, and less of a dent in the energy "channeled" from them.
I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like we gimp our avatar in exchange for buffs. if u /sch u can use subligation for bps mp + dark arts aspir if mob has mp and if u can get away with dding (no resting means able use acc food instead cookies) can do spirit taker. All well and good for solo, but can you see an imp party letting smn melee? Even if they did its not a good idea with amnesia *** blocking your ja's.
Bahamut.Branwen
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 377
By Bahamut.Branwen 2009-10-21 07:33:59
Korpg said:
And I don't think it will weaken the avatar at all to be honest. This is just a boost to get SMNs into parties more often and not be a bad WHM.
There has to be a downside..... if theres not ill eat my evoker's horn.
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:35:55
Korpg said: Branwen said: It doesnt say how much the - perp will be. It's either going to be a massive amount of - perp, which will mean smn can use their avatars without burning through all their mp, BUT I would think if this happens the energy "channeled" from your avatar will make it usless at doing anything vaguely DD orientated.
Or, its going to only have a small effect on the - perp, and less of a dent in the energy "channeled" from them.
I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like we gimp our avatar in exchange for buffs. Hell, even if its only perp-2, I will still get free Gaurda and +1 perp Carby (most everyone will get +1 Carby, those with YYR will get +2 Carby)...... ....now that I think about it, this ability just made YYR usable. And I don't think it will weaken the avatar at all to be honest. This is just a boost to get SMNs into parties more often and not be a bad WHM. what have u been using instead of yyr then? i'm already getting auto refrsh on carby to only question is in what order with the - prep effect be counted with the auto refreshs..
Remora.Ninian
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1667
By Remora.Ninian 2009-10-21 07:42:13
Heimdall said: Korpg said: Branwen said: It doesnt say how much the - perp will be. It's either going to be a massive amount of - perp, which will mean smn can use their avatars without burning through all their mp, BUT I would think if this happens the energy "channeled" from your avatar will make it usless at doing anything vaguely DD orientated.
Or, its going to only have a small effect on the - perp, and less of a dent in the energy "channeled" from them.
I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like we gimp our avatar in exchange for buffs. Hell, even if its only perp-2, I will still get free Gaurda and +1 perp Carby (most everyone will get +1 Carby, those with YYR will get +2 Carby)...... ....now that I think about it, this ability just made YYR usable. And I don't think it will weaken the avatar at all to be honest. This is just a boost to get SMNs into parties more often and not be a bad WHM. what have u been using instead of yyr then? i'm already getting auto refrsh on carby to only question is in what order with the - prep effect be counted with the auto refreshs.. Even with YYR and -perp stuff you'll only get a 1/tick Carby.
Caitsith.Heimdall
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1318
By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-10-21 07:44:46
umm 1 tick + or - and u mean now or after update?
Serveur: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-10-21 07:47:05
Chaussette said: WHO SAYS REFRESH 3/tick , you guy dreaming its more likely 1/tick Square Enix? <_< Quote: The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll. Without SMN lucky roll is 3 MP Refresh, with Commodore Tricorne Bonus / SMN that's 4 MP Refresh.
Remora.Ninian
Serveur: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1667
By Remora.Ninian 2009-10-21 07:47:51
Heimdall said: umm 1 tick + or - and u mean now or after update? Oh sorry, you refresh one tick with Carby out with nearly full perp- gear (at least enough to cover Carby) and YYR, and this is now. After update it'll probably be the same, I think smn's auto refresh is negated with a summon out. I have an Apollo's staff, YYR, occasionally SMNs horn for -3, Carby mitts, Evoker's ring/Conjurer's Ring, AF+1 Feets and still can't break 1/tic refresh soooo :s
Quote: Part II of our job adjustments and additions preview invites to center stage beastmasters and summoners, Vana'diel's wielders of animalistic and avatarial might! Summoner A new ability will be added for summoners, and with it, a brand new way for these masters of forbidden magic to lend their powers to party battles. Avatar's Favor (Lv.55 Recast Time: 5 minutes Duration: 2 hours) Channels the avatar's power towards a beneficial status effect for party members within range. Reduces perpetuation cost while active.  By summoning an avatar while this ability is active, a corresponding beneficial effect from above table will be granted to all party members within range of the avatar. The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll. While multiple favors of the same variety will not be stackable, a single party can benefit from as many types as there are summoners. Furthermore, enhancements received through this ability can be used in conjunction with those received via magic spells, songs, the Phantom Roll ability, and so forth. Beastmaster Adjustments and additions have been scheduled that will greatly enhance the effectiveness of pets called forth via the "Call Beast" ability. - New Pet Command: "Ready" When in control of a pet called forth via the "Call Beast" ability, the pet command "Sic" will be replaced with "Ready." By fulfilling the following conditions, "Ready" will allow you to select a specific ability for the pet to use from its arsenal. * The pet's TP is at 100% or more. * Sufficient charges have accumulated for the ability you wish to use. - Charges Regardless of the beastmaster's level, one charge will accumulate for every two minutes after a pet has been called, up to a maximum of three. The amount of charges required will vary depending on ability. Example: Funguar Familiar  We will continue to observe the beastmaster job following the release of the November version update, and as necessary, make adjustments to special abilities and calling items for each pet. - no new summons for SMN, but tbh i would love to experience the new buffs from them, it sounds pretty good and especially the refresh part (because everyone is a crybaby for MP) - for BST... well not something big but finally a lot more control over their called pets and this is not to underestimate. You can finally be very valueable in dyna, since you can now select AoE-debuffs from your pets or single target damage - Seems they are not done with BST yet. SE seems to keep their rights to nerf anything after the update they haven't taken into account so far >.>
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