Nqftw Posted On The OF

The fatal flaw in your reasoning is you believe people to be necessarily altruistic. Everything in this thread (and the world at large) shows that to be the complete opposite of reality. To answer your question: If everything became unlimited and the prices reduced to the point that it may as well be free, I would lose my motivation to produce anything at all and would have no interest in anything outside of my immediate surroundings. Why do anything if there is no incentive or reward, and what's the point of a society if everyone can just poof things in to reality at will? I'm no biologist, but I'm fairly sure the whole "reward for effort and doing a good" thing is what solely drives motivation. It would also kill innovation as well. No point improving the quality of things if you can just poof out infinite shitty things to replace them. That's why places like Walmart exist.

You're absolutely right, an example would be Freemium games you can Pay2Win but when you have the best items you immediately lose interest in the game, its goals, everything.

Idk, im pretty sure everyone that bought a gameshark was quite happy with their purchase and had a more long term enjoyment out of said games.

This isnt true. Countries that have a UBI high enough to cover all essential costs of living and needs, as well as a small bit of wants, still have a healthy work force.

You cant really kill motivation or innovation. It just shifts to something else. If everything was done and made and you didnt have to work a day in your life, youd still be playing videogames, listening to music, creating said things for enjoyment, or because you want something.

It just changes from "i NEED to do this shitty job i hate to survive" to "I am going to do this/make this because *I* want to"

I think about this, but then I think how if things were the way they were supposed to be then everybody would only be able to gear 1 job because everything would be so overpriced. Can you imagine how few stikini rings/necks/SU5s there would be if this dupe/HQ/whatever wasn't going on for so many months/years? And how highly priced they would be?

To Eiryl; maybe that's why SE has kept sparks around for so long, because if the game was function properly everything would cost 500M gil.

You mean the way it was in 2017? HQ adhemar was 200-250mil a piece. Having HQ gear meant you were a god lol. Mercing wasn't as popular as it is now so if we managed then, i'm sure we'd manage now lol.

Top end gear never really meant you were a god, it meant you were either an LS leader, sleeping with one, or an RMT. Empyrean weapons on release and aeonic weapons are pretty much the only two endgame obtainable things that showed any real sign of the person probably put work in to earn it, as the resources werent artificially limited.

Or maybe people would care to lit a fire under SE's *** to balance things out, doubtful though considering how far gone they are in caring about this game.

It's a little sad sometimes, I just look around and see everyone 6 boxing and doing whatever it takes to get thru things fast and get all the everythings and then they just end up quitting. Now at the point nobody really cares and they even upload videos using addons to get around mechanics in fights.

There could be some philosophical debate we could have but aside from the addons making people multi-box more and more anti-social, the exploits are for sure gone too far. I still laugh at the joke that Thorny was like mr smith and he converted everyone into himself.

I can only imagine they are doing the exploits to RMT. Gil is not hard to get these days, so destroying the integrity of the game seems crazy just to get it. A while back during Abyssea, one of the biggest issues I had was people getting things too fast. The end result was people quitting because they were bored. If the goals are easily attainable, it doesn't create longevity. Idk if long-term goals are even possible these days considering everyone seems to have the instant gratification itch.

I've personally just stopped caring, because it really seems SE has. Maybe they are counting on whatever they have planned in 2022, or maybe the mobile port.

Have you seen Asura? REMA ONLY. That is kinda what I mean. HQ gear back then was the equivalent of like 2 -3 REMA now.

We've tried and tried and tried. This is the result of them not listening/caring.

FFXI never had good long term content. It was made in the era of "grind for 10000 years and you might finish your one thing". It really wasnt good design. Abyssea was the start of fixing the poor design choices FFXI had.

While this may be true, the need for a healthy work force and a universal basic income are not separate from each other. Without a healthy work force, the moneys available for the UBI evaporate and you are right back to, as you say, doing the shitty job to survive. I don't mean to sound antagonistic here. You have a good point, it just doesn't work outside of its own feedback loop. UBIs depend on a society's GDP, not the other way around.

I must also refute your claim that everyone would just listen to music and create things just for the enjoyment of it (paraphrasing). That is a very subjective statement and cannot be taken as truth (it is also in complete defiance of nature). If we are to go down this speculative route, I absolutely wouldn't create things just out of enjoyment because I would have no incentive or motivation to do so. Why would I want to expend labor (a form of capital, mind you) if I can just wait for someone else to do it for me and reap their rewards for little or no benefit to the creator? Take this statement and pass it to the guy to your right and chances are they would have the same opinion. Repeat until the passed buck is in front of you again. Good feelings and happy thoughts do not spend well, unfortunately.

I remember back in the day watching Italian linkshells botting kings unopposed for months, they would get every single HQ spawn and most of the NQ too. This went on for many months, then more shells started botting.

They didn't quit, they didn't hurt "the game". Most people don't care about this stuff.

People have always and will always do stupid stuff like this, they hurt their own enjoyment of the game but they still keep playing.

You have nothing else to do other than to do whatever it is that you want. Most would find something to do, even if its just enjoying what others create. If you can poof anything in that you want with unlimited resources, doing whatever it is that you want is perfectly fine. Its essentially just playing minecraft on creative instead of survival. Just because you have unlimited resources doesnt mean you suddenly do nothing, you just shift focus.

You really, really haven't. I don't know where you think you've tried even the minimum amount but you haven't.

While id argue it did hurt the game, it is only really because old HNMs were designed absolutely poorly. A day/week long respawn timer only a maximum of 18 people could partake in, with 1 set of drops, to supply an entire server of players is just not sustainable in any reality.

Most players would never even get to enjoy that content, let alone have a chance at getting the drops. And if you could monopolize the NM? Thats more for you.

Problem was solved to an extent once they became pop NMs... they just werent as easy to pop as they should have been.

I don't know where you got the altruism bit from as I'm not advocating for socialism, but positing a capitalist system that gets to its end point where innovation has peaked and things are essentially free, causing things to be extremely available. You addressed this just fine by answering my question directly so I'm a bit confused.

"I would lose my motivation to produce anything at all and would have no interest in anything outside of my immediate surroundings. Why do anything if there is no incentive or reward, and what's the point of a society if everyone can just poof things in to reality at will?"
This is exactly what I was trying to get as one of the answers so that people can ask themselves your follow up question, and why I'm making a parallel to IRL overall. To people who agree with this response, do you think we need to shoot ourselves in the foot when things are getting too easy in life then?

As an aside, I personally play this game to get a tl;dr view of EXACTLY this type of thing happen, so this is incredibly amusing to see play out. I don't care if this is "a game" -- you can't escape your nature and what happens in the game would happen IRL if the circumstances were the same, so it's an accurate representation.

What people don't even bring up which boggles my mind is the fact that materials are being printed out to no end.

How are so many Dark matters, Koh-I-Noor's, Tartarian Chains, Befouled Silvers, Macuil Plating, etc. being put onto the server? Ever see the 10 mules in Port Jeuno/Ru'Lude with 100's of Dark Matter in their bazaar?

~429 Dark Matters being sold on AH per day alone. Not including the bazaars or the people with stockpiles of them.

Who's doing that much Vagary? That many VNMs?

Bots, lots of bots (we've) been talking about it for about a year.

There's really nothing to say. Nothing to discuss, no point continually bringing it up. Still there? Yup. K see you next month.

Obviously I knew that. What I was saying is that even if you fixed crafting there's still other stuff going on and there always will be.

ppl always assume everything would be infinitely more scrace and pricy when RMT are gone, i argue currently the game is balanced around RMT,cheats and bots. without them we'd see several balance changes a lot earlier.
requirments for final stage shield would have been lowered long ago. maybe entry requirments for dyna D and Vagary lowered to increase supply of crafting materials and lower cost.

currently we only ever see those adjustments with 2,3 sometimes 5+ years delay because RMT screw with the market. without them we'd see those adjustments way earlier, sometimes as soon as they have new content in the pipeline.

All easy fixes, but I guess no point fixing anything as long as something is still broken. Fix everything or nothing - Sounds productive.

(Bots pay subs)

in a environment your basic needs were already taken care of you'd still do things but different ones for a different reason than befor.

when you previously created something with the motivation to earn money you'd make sure your creation builds cheap and efficiently. with unlimited resources the motivation changes from earning money to for example fight boredom. you'd no longer care if it builds cheap and quickly but rather want to spend extra time and effort to make it more detailed and pleasing to the eye.

ofc thats where the comparison between ingame and irl breaks appart as the time spent for a craft result is always the same and the outcome is predetermined.

So you sell gil, and you run multiple characters with zero bots?

No, you're also free to do other things that you might enjoy in the game, or even play something else you've been putting off because you feel compelled to put 50h in every week and attend every single event your shell posts in your discord. Just because people enjoy this game doesn't mean it's the only thing they WANT to enjoy.

The only thing that making this game easier is doing is easing the addiction to it because you don't need to put in as much work or pay as much attention to it to get the same result.

What does that have to do with anything? You know the answer.

Simple answer for the thing you're about to type is this;
I do what I want, because I can, and other people do. I would rather it got fixed, but I'm absolutely going to exploit it until they do. It would be stupid not to.

rules and so do I. A full commitment's what I'm thinking of. You wouldn't get this from any other guy. I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling. Gotta make you understand

"I gloat about how much money I make RMTing and running bots, but bots are ruining XI and need to be dealt with"

You'll have to understand my confusion on your stance.

Oh, you want all the bots out there to be dealt with, but your bots to be left alone, that way the value of gil will go up, and you make more money?

I mean I wouldn't say no to that scenario!

It was a lot more rewarding when there was risk, but since square stopped enforcing rules everyone bandwagonned up and made it less rewarding. There's no risk anymore it's just reward reward reward reward.

And just to clarify; Getting banned on a level 1 mule 3 years later while making tens of thousands of dollars isn't a punishment/risk.

IRS: "How did you buy your second house and boat?"

".... chocobo blinkers"