The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

Can safely engage and WS as well from that distance!

Some DNC may want to just create a special engaged set for Aminon that has their "idle" regain set and just stand there engaged to step and WS as needed. But if you're not using anchor......

Having to engage/turn for steps then disengage/WS for a job as busy as DNC is a non-starter.

Most people are just going to use Anchor
Those who don't use Anchor are going to use DistancePlus and slowly walk up to the exact distance they know they can stand at to do these actions.

I think it's possible if the PLD is sufficiently far away from Aminon some (many? most?) of his auto-attacks won't knock you back. This might also require the PLD to be wearing knockback resistance gear as well, because knockback is coded weirdly. I've never personally experienced it, but looking at Posi's video, he isn't being knocked back most of the time but also isn't using Anchor (he does get knocked back sometimes).

Not sure what wizardry is involved here, but my guess is a combination of PLD very far and PLD wearing knockback gear. In my runs, I ALWAYS get knocked back by all of her knockback-inducing autos, though my PLD doesn't wear knockback gear (he has his back to a wall) and he's also quite close to Aminon.

TBH though, we know that the vast, vast majority of people doing this content are just going to use third party tools to solve it all to make it easier on themselves.

Agree that most are going to use anchor/Gearswap. Having to step forward every few seconds back to the exact right spot for the duration of the fight is obnoxious and adds nothing “challenging” to the encounter at all.

I apologize in advance for this turning into a 5 page discussion, I genuinely don't want it to turn into a back-and-forth but I was baited and I take bait.

I have to strongly disagree to the concept of "challenging" here.

If you don't have GS/Anchor/JA0:
Would the fight be longer?
Would there be more opportunities for mistakes?
Would it reduce your DPS?

If the answer to all three of these questions is yes, how are these things not increasing the challenge of the fight?

Now, you can say it's obnoxious, I fully agree with that part. If they added a mechanic that required you to /fume at Aminon every 10 seconds to keep it from using Bane, that would be obnoxious. It would also make the fight more challenging.

It's best if we don't get into the whole "should you be able to remove parts of the game because you find them obnoxious" bit, but...they're definitely challenging. You can pretend they're not challenging because you haven't engaged with them in years, but trust me, they're quite challenging.

Just be glad you don't play FFXIV where positioning truly matters. I agree with Maletaru though, just because it is extremely annoying doesn't mean it isn't also somewhat challenging.

Evidently we XI players have very low tolerance for moving during combat. Knockback is a special case because the gear that prevents it doesn't work like we want it to, but you could technically make everyone wear Vocane rings etc. if you had to I guess.

It does work as intended, and all jobs but GEO in the common Aminon strat can wear Dashing Subligar + Repulse Mantle...but it would hurt your DPS so why wear it when you can just install Anchor and wear STP gear instead?

...doesn't add any challenge though...

Speaking of which, I might actually go pick up that gear and start to put it on while I'm idling on Aminon. Sick of her ***.

I don’t think it would even add more time to the fight though. You’re just pressing W until you’re at the right spot (again).

This discussion was beaten to death in the sortie thread a little while back so I’ll just reiterate what some said there - doing it without anchor for a while proves you can do it…sure. Doing it without anchor daily for a year+ is just mind numbing and not fun or engaging.

I don't like the idea of what someone else is or isn't wearing impacting my own gear choices. Should be up to each player to make the decision on their own.

I have also never quite figured out how it works. I do use Dashing Subligar + Repulse Mantle and I would say I resist about 90% of the knockbacks, but there does seem to be something more to it, as some fights I get knocked back significantly more than others. It would be nice to know exactly how it works but I haven't had the time or patience to test it over something that's pretty much a minor annoyance.

Edit: I will add that I found the knockback resist gear to improve my DPS over Store TP, since I was more likely to be able to WS right at 1000 TP instead of being in the middle of repositioning, plus I waste less TP using excess Box Steps to confirm my positioning.

I always assumed it was this:


https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/46865-Knockback-Mechanics?p=548329#post548329

Although now I'm not so sure, wiki says Vagary was in 2015.

This is still possible. All the enemies in Vagary (and Sortie) already existed in the Adoulin story missions in 2013 and were likely dropped in without modifying their behavior.

Oh I certainly think the knockback would increase DPS over other stuff if you're not using Anchor. I was referring to people preferring Anchor + STP gear over knockback resistance gear.

Thanks for sharing that you're wearing the knockback gear, I didn't think you were because I saw you being knocked back, but that makes sense.

Could be that you're not in the gear at the time? Could be in step set, RF set, WS set, etc?

I'd presume if it's checking your entire party's KB res then it would be WAY more prevalent than it appears.

I got pretty lucky with the stinky subligar so I'm going to try it out in the coming few days.


Yeah IDK, you could say the same thing about any other game and make it sound compelling.

"I've won a Fortnite match without aimbots before, doing it every night for a year is just mind numbing"

"I've lifted 100 pounds before, doing it every night for a year is just not fun or engaging, so now I use a forklift"

or, for more FFXI examples:

"I've done 9 boss Sortie before, but it's boring so now I use speed hacks because it's just mind numbing"

"I've done Lamia ambu before, now I use React to turn away because it's repetitive"

Proving that you can do something once doesn't mean you can bypass the difficulty scott-free on repeated attempts.

edit (again): I guess I should clarify. You can absolutely bypass the difficult if you want, IDGAF, but I take issue with pretending it's NOT bypassing the difficulty. It's your sub fee, play however you want. Don't pretend that skipping over mechanics to make the game easier isn't making it easier though.

Anchor on aminon is nowhere near the hardest part of aminon. I'd argue its not even hard at all and just annoying. Comparing it to aimbots and speedhacks is pretty over the top...

Maintaining absorb-TP rotation and tracking aminon's TP, upkeep steps/debuffs/songs/etc, keeping stoneskin up as the PLD and healing the party, WSing in sync with your party to break up WS wall, those are the meaningful mechanics of the fight.

OK...you can just apply the same logic to any of the other scenarios if you're allowed to just apply your personal opinions to what makes up the difficulty of a fight.

"Aiming isn't even hard in Fortnite, the hard part is reacting quickly enough and pressing the trigger, plus finding the right hiding spots and knowing which gun to use. I'd argue aiming isn't even hard and just annoying."

As soon as you allow yourself the grace of picking which mechanics are hard and which are annoying, and permission to disable anything you consider annoying and not hard, you can gain all kinds of advantages.

Something doesn't have to, in and of itself, be difficult to contribute to the difficulty of the game. Goombas aren't very difficult to avoid, they only walk in a straight line and don't even jump, but when combined with other enemies or situations they can add to the challenge. That doesn't mean they don't contribute to the overall difficulty of the game. The game would be easier if you deleted all the goombas from it. You could say they're not difficult and are just annoying. You could hold the opinion that pits aren't difficult (since they don't move) and are just annoying. Doesn't change the fact that if you removed them all, the game would be easier...


I mean, that's how debates/discussions work. If you accept that aimbots and speedhacks are removing part of the difficulty, but you claim that Anchor isn't...what's the difference? Is there a cutoff point where you consider any challenge below...5% of the overall difficulty of the game OK to cull? Is it 10%? Is it anything, no matter how much it contributes to the difficulty of the battle, so long as you find it annoying?

I prefer not to engage with this because it's not for me, but if you allow yourself this license to delete any mechanics you don't like, I think it's a slippery slope and I think those decisions about what's "annoying" vs "difficult" are very abitrary.

I'm pretty sure Martell posted something about if the tank is wearing knockback gear then the party is less/not affected by it. His thrown together RUN tank set involved an admantite mail and people were getting silly about it being, 'thrown together'.

___
I don't use Anchor as the RDM but I think I'm capable of consistently performing all my tasks without worrying about messing up the run for the other people I play with. I would almost say I enjoy the knockback because the fight would almost be too boring without it. Fun compared to say Lilith's BS. Now I want to mess with my idle set to see the difference, I definitely have the pants and cape.

I haven't done any kind of serious analysis of whether it happens more often when I'm in another set or not, though it can definitely happen even when I'm sitting idle in the knockback reduction gear.

A couple hypotheses, if it's true that the party's knockback resistance factors in:
1. Velner was in a different set, e.g. to cast Cure/Stoneskin
2. The other 4 members of the party normally stand against the wall but occasionally move away from it for one reason or another -- maybe the distance actually able to be knocked back somehow factors in and not just the distance the knockback would've been in free space.

For the record, this is the set I use with weapons drawn against Aminon:
ItemSet 397010

Yes, the Roller's Ring is on regardless of whether I have an 11. I am not really comfortable automating that and making separate sets/macros depending on roll values (and tracking those roll values) is a pain, so I don't bother.

And before you ask why not Maculele Earring +2: I don't have one, or even a maxed +1. I still only have 7 earrings +2 after 2 years of doing Sortie almost daily. And I don't know why I even bother.

I lock the Dashing Subligar and Phildor Mantle in once I take position away from the wall. I don't change those out during the fight at all for anything. I'll randomly get knocked back every few runs. And sometimes it's a far enough knockback that Aminon will move. I don't know how any of it works.