Chango VS Ukonvasara !!!

/bravo sir

Lol, was reading this thread about Chango and Ukon, and what I got out of 6 pages of posts... was people who have BOTH weapons/tested it saying R15 Chango is BIS, and people who dont even have War built, let alone have the weapons arguing over math and theories..

For those who took time out of their day and tested it, Thank you. For those who want to push theories onto others, I suggest you make the builds, test it, then report back if your so adamant about it. "Did you hold 2000tp and do blah blah blah.." >.>

I realize this is a ukon vs chango discussion... but I've been eyeballing r15 bravura lately and I'm wondering if anyone else has taken that path and given it a 2nd look lately.

It's really good. It's the weapon that overall gains the most from augments, in my opinion.

Unaugmented Bravura already lets you keep 100% DA rate and gain a substantial chunk to DT (AM + Defending Ring is already 30%). The Double Attack damage +10% augment then translates to a flat 10% boost to white damage - which is not incredible but it's also not bad at all.

Metatron Torment is far from our best WS but it's also far from bad, and goes up a tier with the +20% damage from the augments. The defense down is really nice.

It's also our highest accuracy weapon, by quite a fair bit above any other option. Paired with the Evasion Down effect on hit, you can generally forego accuracy food in favor of attack/store tp food.

Overall it is at least one tier below Chango, but it will let you win parses easily by virtue of pulling less hate and staying alive longer. I really like my R15 Bravura, tho I don't use it nearly as much as I'd like to.

It's good, and has utility AM is nice. Chango will still out damage it by a good bit. It would be better it Metatron scaled with TP.

The failure of all relics. No scaling. When they're rank 100 though with wsd plus 200...

Rank 25 will make relics pretty beastly if they continue to scale in the same fashion.

With the new body and head and this set with chango
ItemSet 367131


You can hit 99 DA 50 DT and 141-151 STP with just lucky rostam sam/fighter rolls . meaning in a hybrid DT/TP set you are just as durable as bravura while dealing way more damage. You also get the added benefit of not being able to be dispelled and not having to build TP for AM. Bravura kinda lost most of its utility benefits with the new items. NQ tempus works just as well.

Basically the only thing bravura does better is being a bit more durable DURING WS. We now have a much better hybrid set up for DPS while being slightly better for DT than bravura with chango.

Chango even has considerably better utility for the breaks since it has more macc to land the debuff while having TP bonus to increase the duration. not to mention the 10 STP for tp return on them.

Sadly bravura has no benefit that cant be done better with any other good GA. I think for bravura to have a BIS niche again, you need to make metatron do more damage than chango upheaval. That would take something absurd like metatron dmg +60% on top of what it already has. That might not even be enough. That is also assuming chango gets zero buff from rank 25 (assuming they ever even do that).

Bravura AM should be DTII at this point

Yeah, for the time being i think it has to be categorized as a worthless weapon. It is beat by so many things now. Making it DTII is would make it kinda okay. maybe makes it 20% chance to annul damage or something.

What are you smoking? The purpose of Bravura is to be in a 50% set with practically no modification to your TP set. You don't just use MT but also Upheaval / KJ / ect.. the same as Chango. The job of Bravura isn't do deal the absolute most damage but to deal high damage while also being protected.

Bravura 20% DT
D Ring 10% DT (double moonlight works too)
Sulv Hands+1 5% PDT
AF3 Legs 5% PDT
Back 10% PDT

That's 50% PDT with just switching a single ring. Shell V brings it beyond to 50% MDT also. If someone has the gil they can do double moonlight rings for the same effect as D. Ring though 3% QA is kinda nice.

Yeah you can have 50 PDT with bravura in a full TP set. or you can deal way more damage and still have 50 PDT with chango. seems like a no brainer. Not to mention no risk of dispel. THe money you save from not making an r15 bravura easily pays for the ring as well.

No.

To reach a full 50% PDT you need to swap out several more pieces which reduces your TP gain by a good amount. The last 20% DT is always the hardest to get because you've already exhausted the high yield slots.

The "free" slots are the -10% from cape, 5% from hands and 5% from legs (all PDT). You then need to find another 30% PDT and 21~23% MDT. This cause's you to start dropping MA ~or~ Store TP depending which way you go, both have the same effect of reducing your TP gain. Plus you lose all that when switching to WS sets.

Bravura on the other hand is about having full defense while wearing max TP gear and putting out high damage WS's and making SC's. Whenever your in WS gear you still have the AM effect from the weapon so your not caught entirely vulnerable during a WS at a bad moment. This weapon has saved my *** far too many times and is the reason I R15'd it after upgrading my Chango.

Bravura is a weapon that is situational and honestly if it's use needs to be explained then their not ready for that type of play yet.

did you not see the new gear?

And it does nothing for WAR sets.

Seriously it doesn't change anything.

Unless you plan on using a Tempus Belt....

For those not following, gear haste caps at 256/1024, or exactly 25%. Gear on the other hand doesn't have the actual value that's listed, Haste +3% is usually 30/1024 and so forth so we try to hit 26% in gear haste. The WAR standard set has 28% due to Ioska +1 being awesome. The near gear has 0% haste in both slots, slots that normally contribute 7% to that 28% leaving you with 21% with an additional 1% available from Cheer KI.

thought that was pretty obvious since it was posted in the set and mentioned in the post. post your sam/fighter roll bravura set plz. you must be assuming something very different.

That is ... dumb...

And here I thought you said


In the case of Fighters roll you switch out Body / Earrings for Store TP items or Something like Dagon Breastplate. From Brutal / Cessance + Valorous to Telos / Cessance + Dagon, or even legs to Odyssean legs, though that's kinda extreme. Lots of options available there that have nothing to do with a Hybrid set.

i am assuming this is your bravura fighters roll TP set.

ItemSet 367125

with fighters roll. 100 DA 50 PDT/MDT and 57 STP 5 ta from gear while using bravura. correct me if I am wrong.

THe set I am proposing is this. The hjarandi gear doesnt show up yet in ffxiah so I cant post it to the set yet.

ItemSet 367131

which with fighters is 100 DA 62 STP 50 PDT and 50 MDT (shell). and you get to use chango. You lose 5 TA which sucks. but as you say with high MA you lose a lot of value from it. Diminishing returns. Are you proposing a different set with bravura? if not, then you get he same DA, 5 more STP and 5 less TA with chango. better TP return on WS with 500 TP bonus.

Wrong.

D.Ring + Niq (cause 3% QA > 9% DA)

And swap out for Dagon Breastplate.

100% DA only gets you 2.0 Attacks per round, I have somewhere around 2.157 attacks per round. due to QA and TA going beyond 2.0.

1 % TA > 1% DA > 1 Store TP.

lol just post your set. with the changes you are proposing, my set still trounces that one. 26 less STP with 10 more TA and 3 more qa vs 26 more STP and 500 TP bonus + 10% more upheaval damage + better tp return.

edited, had your new sets TP values wrong.

No, it's not stored inside ffxiah and I already told you want it is.

Your just trying to find a use for something new on a thread that was started by someone who thought they *discovered* something new. When you get past 1K posts, or come back with your real account, then we'll take you seriously.

You failed, here is a cookie for your troubles.



Now DRG and DRK on the other hand are in a different situation as they both have ways of getting 25% JA haste and not having an Bravura option anyway. For those two jobs that gear is boss.

{ammo="Ginsen",
head="Flamma zucchetto +2",neck="War. Beads +2", ear1="Telos earring", ear2="Cessance earring",
body=DA_Body,hands="Sulevia's gauntlets +2",ring1="Niqmaddu ring",ring2="Defending ring",
back=DA_Back,waist="Ioskeha belt +1",legs="Pummeler's cuisses +3",feet="Pummeler's calligae +3"}


according to your lua. this is your bravura set. you dont have dagon in there. but ill add it cuz that seems to be what you prefer. that means 10 more TA and 3 more qa vs 26 more STP and 500 TP bonus + better tp return on WS. my set wins by a massive ammount. If you are going with a max STP val body in stead it is 5 ta 3 qa vs better tp retrun 15 more STP in tp phase and 500 TP bonus. My set still wins massively. and I dont have to dork around with AM and I dont have to swap weapons to go full TP mode for DPS.
Both have capped DA PDT and MDT. my set doesnt have to mess with AM.
This all assuming rostam sam/fighters because that is all i use these days.

And this is why I don't hand out the full lua and make you guys ask it one at a time. From the message log.





So you think you know what I'm wearing today because you got a copy of my newbie lua from March. And with this great insightful knowledge you think you can then expertly give advice after playing a few months.

so you are making an assumption not even know your own sets TP values? as soon as you post them, i would love to see it. Until then i guess we have no where to go. If you know the set just make one on the itemsets. takes like three minutes. As it is with the sets I assumed you are using, my set wins massively.I posted a set saying it was an assumption and asking for you to correct me if I am wrong, you then said i was wrong and made three corrections. Which i then changed and got the TP values for. Guess you should have made more corrections lol. If you have a better set I would love to see it. Let us know once you know what set you use .

btw your last post doesnt really make sense. Because I didnt know how your lua was set up, you assume i havnt been playing for years? you know what they say about assuming.

Huh... where the f*ck did you get this idea from? I told you the sets, you just didn't read them. Hell I even gave you the average attacks per round to illustrate how that stuff is related.


You have less then 200 posts on an old site part of an old game. So either your newish or a sock for someone else.

or the more obvious answer. I just didnt do posts. my account is from the first month the game came out.

Since you are admitting you know your own sets TP values. How much DA TA QA STP does your bravura fighters roll set have? All i need to know.

apparently you refused to read that part.

Your presence in this thread says otherwise.

Wait ... you trying to use one of those outdated non-functional spreed-sheets or Austars non-existent (has hasn't finished it) simulator? Your plugging in the values or actually doing the math by hand, cause that takes awhile to do right.