Quetzalcoatl.Senaki said: »
So what is the final consensus on job layouts this month for Ambuscade V1?
Tank
COR
COR or RNG
GEO
SMN
Healer of some variety
Have sufficient gear and you win.
August Ambuscade Volume One
August Ambuscade Volume One
Tank
COR
COR or RNG
GEO
SMN
Healer of some variety
Have sufficient gear and you win.
[+]
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Afania said: »
why change a strategy when people already been reporting RUN COR COR SMN (or RNG) BRD GEO working very well in VD? :p
Something about 10,000 people playing a melee job and since ranger has been out of the meta for 4 years, no one has their rangers up to date... EVERYONE has a melee cor. NO ONE(*) has a shootie cor.
The last time I used Ranger/Shooting cor was.... Delve2/HTB AA's that's how out of date mine are.
Perfect for me, I've been gone for 2 years and still have a shooty cor!
Asura.Suteru said: »
Perfect for me, I've been gone for 2 years and still have a shooty cor!
A lot has changed gear-wise in those two years! In fact, a lot has changed just within the last year (Dynamis D and Relic +3, which is really good for ranged COR).
Cerberus.Boogs said: »
Asura.Suteru said: »
Perfect for me, I've been gone for 2 years and still have a shooty cor!
A lot has changed gear-wise in those two years! In fact, a lot has changed just within the last year (Dynamis D and Relic +3, which is really good for ranged COR).
You don't really need absolute bis gears to shoot you know. Megh +2 set + fomalhaut + some triple shot gears like empy body are good enough for VD.
In the video that I linked the guy shoot in megh +2 4/5 + empy body and there's another DD who parsed 2/3 of him, still 3.5 min to kill all imp + boss. So I don't understand where "everyone has melee but none can shoot" came from, besides Eiryl just being cynical as usual.
You can shoot naked. Nothing stopping you from doing it.
If you don't mind doing less total damage than the other party member does in one ws.
In the dozen I did day one, less than half the rangers/cors had a snapshot set at all. all but one did less damage than me, and I last stand in 5/5 meg+2. with a homestead gun. and hepaspara as my main hand lul.
That's sad. Gotta love asuran shout.
If you don't mind doing less total damage than the other party member does in one ws.
In the dozen I did day one, less than half the rangers/cors had a snapshot set at all. all but one did less damage than me, and I last stand in 5/5 meg+2. with a homestead gun. and hepaspara as my main hand lul.
That's sad. Gotta love asuran shout.
Afania said: »
Cerberus.Boogs said: »
Asura.Suteru said: »
Perfect for me, I've been gone for 2 years and still have a shooty cor!
A lot has changed gear-wise in those two years! In fact, a lot has changed just within the last year (Dynamis D and Relic +3, which is really good for ranged COR).
You don't really need absolute bis gears to shoot you know. Megh +2 set + fomalhaut + some triple shot gears like empy body are good enough for VD.
Umm, I don't know if Aeonic is best in slot for Cor or not. But I'm not sure it is fair to talk about it like the gear is whatever, "good enough". I know it seems odd, but those who actually have aeonics are still a minority of players on ffxi. :x
Quetzalcoatl.Senaki said: »
Afania said: »
Cerberus.Boogs said: »
Asura.Suteru said: »
Perfect for me, I've been gone for 2 years and still have a shooty cor!
A lot has changed gear-wise in those two years! In fact, a lot has changed just within the last year (Dynamis D and Relic +3, which is really good for ranged COR).
You don't really need absolute bis gears to shoot you know. Megh +2 set + fomalhaut + some triple shot gears like empy body are good enough for VD.
Umm, I don't know if Aeonic is best in slot for Cor or not. But I'm not sure it is fair to talk about it like the gear is whatever, "good enough". I know it seems odd, but those who actually have aeonics are still a minority of players on ffxi. :x
I said VD. If you don't have aeonic just do lower difficulty....
Shiva.Arislan said: »
Afania said: »
For 1) Watching another group doing ambu VD, hate doesn't seem like an issue at all. Not one single imp went to backline in entire run, which took 2 min to buff + 3.5 min to kill all.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/294809496?t=01h23m50s
From what I've seen, if there's an issue with hate, it's probably a different problem.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/294809496?t=01h23m50s
From what I've seen, if there's an issue with hate, it's probably a different problem.
Higher quality tank than what I've played with then. If you're lucky enough to have one of those HQ tanks (and people who can remove statuses quickly off them), then by all means, sub whatever you want.
After running into tons, and tons, and tons of tank with hate issues (/tears), here are some ideas that I think of to solve this...
1) RUN seems to be noticably better and easier to hold hate from imps. Make sure you give them march x2 so they spam foil/BLU hate spells faster. People seems to complain about the long recast from spells without haste made it harder to keep hate.
2) 2 songs that can be cast on tanks and DDs:
Foe Sirvente: Reduces target party member's enmity loss.
Adventurer's Dirge: Reduces target party member's enmity.
Use those as 3rd or 4th songs respectively.
3) Enmity -5 merit on COR, seriously the must have merit for this job especially in ranged mode. I kinda just keep enmity -5 full time these days and never switch back. Try to use some enmity- gear in last stand set on imps may help, but on soulflayer it's not necessary since they don't take increased ls/light damage.
Also since Adventurer's Dirge count towards enmity- cap, don't over gear it.
4) I would use /drg as very last resort due to recast on multiple targets. If hate is an issue on every imps, which happens often with 45k+ last stand + 55k + light, then it wouldn't help much. But by all means use it if 1) to 3) doesn't work.
This also kinda made BRD a so much better choice as 6th/healer slot in VD than other jobs IMO. I'm not sure if I'm missing other ways to reduce emnity besides using a SCH.
This may or may not be anecdotal, but uh, Decoy shot. lol.
I've not seen a single group, purposely set up for decoy and actually use decoy. They always just pile in the corner. Decoy makes a LARGE difference. (obviously not for cors)
You can still pile into the corner, but use the wall to keep them (mostly) in front, with your back out to the rangers.
and/or decoy the geo/brd (occasionally, don't over do it)
USE camouflage, and you can switch imps to let your enmity on that one cool down a bit.
I've not seen a single group, purposely set up for decoy and actually use decoy. They always just pile in the corner. Decoy makes a LARGE difference. (obviously not for cors)
You can still pile into the corner, but use the wall to keep them (mostly) in front, with your back out to the rangers.
and/or decoy the geo/brd (occasionally, don't over do it)
USE camouflage, and you can switch imps to let your enmity on that one cool down a bit.
[+]
I always roll with double cor for full time RD triple shot so that wasn't an option ;(
Been doing this ambu a bit more (110k pts)
with just 1 rng and 1 smn and coordinating multisteps like Jishnu->VoltStrike->Jishnu works best for my group with only 2 dps.
Originally i was just going ws spam and alittle effort to coordinate a 3step is worth it for my situation.
I've been messing around with my arma and gandiva sets a bunch doing this ambu I found unsupported ranged accuracy for VD to be äbout 1425 after food.
My geo just does fury+frail and theres no bard, so my latest tp set I was using tonight for gandiva is this.
ItemSet 360557
using /dnc sub
got arcadian+3 body and oshosi head for double shot but the point is to mainly show what you need to shoot stuff in VD without being buffed by others to hit stuff.
Theres a fair amount of -enmity gear in tp set, not sure how other people are pulling hate.
party setup
whm
geo(master w/dunna)
run(epeo)
smn(nirvana)
rng
ygnas trust (who does 99% of the healing of the run lol)
with just 1 rng and 1 smn and coordinating multisteps like Jishnu->VoltStrike->Jishnu works best for my group with only 2 dps.
Originally i was just going ws spam and alittle effort to coordinate a 3step is worth it for my situation.
I've been messing around with my arma and gandiva sets a bunch doing this ambu I found unsupported ranged accuracy for VD to be äbout 1425 after food.
My geo just does fury+frail and theres no bard, so my latest tp set I was using tonight for gandiva is this.
ItemSet 360557
using /dnc sub
got arcadian+3 body and oshosi head for double shot but the point is to mainly show what you need to shoot stuff in VD without being buffed by others to hit stuff.
Theres a fair amount of -enmity gear in tp set, not sure how other people are pulling hate.
party setup
whm
geo(master w/dunna)
run(epeo)
smn(nirvana)
rng
ygnas trust (who does 99% of the healing of the run lol)
Valefor.Sapphire said: »
Been doing this ambu a bit more (110k pts)
with just 1 rng and 1 smn and coordinating multisteps like Jishnu->VoltStrike->Jishnu works best for my group with only 2 dps.
Originally i was just going ws spam and alittle effort to coordinate a 3step is worth it for my situation.
with just 1 rng and 1 smn and coordinating multisteps like Jishnu->VoltStrike->Jishnu works best for my group with only 2 dps.
Originally i was just going ws spam and alittle effort to coordinate a 3step is worth it for my situation.
I personally never bother with multi step. BP recast is entirely way too long to worth it, nevermind the fact that Avatar could be killed or amnesiaed when they go in. On the other hand COR could back to back self SC light. Everytime when i see people multi step, COR always ended up holding TP at 3000 and waiting, just not worth it when they could WS 3 to 4 times for 45-46k last stand each + close with 55k-70k light.
There is one advantage with multi step though, having avatar close light probably solves most of the hate issue since avatar would be getting majority of hate, instead of COR getting 100k damage worth of hate per self SC.
im always going at 1k tp when i have it and self sc without issue when double shot is up most of the time. I've played around with holding tp more and it doesnt really help.
When the summoner recasts a ramuh to send it in to 3step with me its not a huge issue to wait the extra 5 seconds to coordinate with them.
Also we've played around with thunderspark bursting, paralyze seems to stick on all the imps nicely, but its not really changing the clearspeed or ease of the fight.
When the summoner recasts a ramuh to send it in to 3step with me its not a huge issue to wait the extra 5 seconds to coordinate with them.
Also we've played around with thunderspark bursting, paralyze seems to stick on all the imps nicely, but its not really changing the clearspeed or ease of the fight.
I've pulled hate using Coronach in PUG. I feel it's not wise to always use Last Stand or Jishnu's unless you know for certain that your tank can maintain hate. I've typically been waiting until we're down to the Master Manipulator before I start using Last Stand. It's also possible to kill the imps with just 4 Coronach, so not much time is saved by using Last Stand on the imps anyways.
[+]
The other day we were doing Normal and at about 20% HP, the boss got both shields up.
I was tanking at the time so I didn't really notice that the Cors and Rngs weren't able to deal any damage. Last Stand, Wildfire, Trueflight, Leaden, none of the were doing any damage. So I used Savage Blade on the NM for 5-6k damage - I could expect it to do up to 10~16k normally with Geo.
Then the Cor ran in and did another melee WS using dagger for 4-5k damage and broke the 2nd shield.
So at this point I think it's more like melee vs range. If you deal too much range damage it might block that with second shield.
Also, on fights that I got my buffs stripped early would be the fights I start losing hate on the imps as we get to the last 1-2 imps. The NM would continue to strip buffs fairly regularly after that. It became much harder to keep buffs up as well as trying to keep enmity high enough.
I was tanking at the time so I didn't really notice that the Cors and Rngs weren't able to deal any damage. Last Stand, Wildfire, Trueflight, Leaden, none of the were doing any damage. So I used Savage Blade on the NM for 5-6k damage - I could expect it to do up to 10~16k normally with Geo.
Then the Cor ran in and did another melee WS using dagger for 4-5k damage and broke the 2nd shield.
So at this point I think it's more like melee vs range. If you deal too much range damage it might block that with second shield.
Also, on fights that I got my buffs stripped early would be the fights I start losing hate on the imps as we get to the last 1-2 imps. The NM would continue to strip buffs fairly regularly after that. It became much harder to keep buffs up as well as trying to keep enmity high enough.
[+]
My party also encountered the same problem and we manage to break shield with dagger and sword ws at 10%
Its the second week after the update, second friday night in a row and not a single damn shout. ***is crazy. Watching for a N off and on for like 70 straight hours only seen maybe 2. Of which shouter went THF. #fail
Not even mercs, that's saying something.
You're not soloing V1 and not slumming V2 so are we just not bothering or what.
Not even mercs, that's saying something.
You're not soloing V1 and not slumming V2 so are we just not bothering or what.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Its the second week after the update, second friday night in a row and not a single damn shout. ***is crazy. Watching for a N off and on for like 70 straight hours only seen maybe 2. Of which shouter went THF. #fail
Not even mercs, that's saying something.
You're not soloing V1 and not slumming V2 so are we just not bothering or what.
Not even mercs, that's saying something.
You're not soloing V1 and not slumming V2 so are we just not bothering or what.
I don't think people are bothering. I wonder if the Japanese have found some means of doing it because I still see a ton of shouts from them about it. But I can't exactly read Japanese, so I have no clue what they're doing lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7DAw9Nv-I4 melee 9 min win (via reddit)
Senaki said: »
I don't think people are bothering. I wonder if the Japanese have found some means of doing it because I still see a ton of shouts from them about it. But I can't exactly read Japanese, so I have no clue what they're doing lol.
I've still yet to even see this double shield that people are raving about this month spamming D and VD off and on. I usually go as
PLD
WHM
GEO
COR
RNG or COR
SMN
and just pick off all the Imps with Light SC's between the two COR's and occasionally the SMN if we're feeling frisky. I don't even think you really need a GEO -- I just don't know what else to bring really. Most wins fall in the 6-9 minute range depending on how reliable we're being with our SC's.
I honestly also really like a RNG over a 2nd COR just for the fact that decoy shot when you're on the boss is nice.
AkaniDragoon said: »
I honestly also really like a RNG over a 2nd COR just for the fact that decoy shot when you're on the boss is nice.
Hate is more of an issue on imps than boss because they take double amount of damage from last stand sometimes and extra damage from light SC. It's not uncommon to pop 45-46k last stand + 55k light on imps, that's 100k damage immediately.
Boss doesn't take as much damage so honestly hate isn't an issue on it. Once you get past imps stage you're safe.
Double shield happens if it uses immortal shield again when single is up. If you break single fast enough you'll never see double.
That's fair.
I've honestly been going with x2 COR so I've been doing CHAOS/SAM/ROGUE/ALLIES and most SC's just flat out kill an Imp
(Along with whatever our ranged-autos take off of it with constant triple/quad + crits).
I think it's pretty rare we don't 9-line a Light SC let alone a Radiance on our runs.
I've honestly been going with x2 COR so I've been doing CHAOS/SAM/ROGUE/ALLIES and most SC's just flat out kill an Imp
(Along with whatever our ranged-autos take off of it with constant triple/quad + crits).
I think it's pretty rare we don't 9-line a Light SC let alone a Radiance on our runs.
[+]
Did some more runs last night.
RUN/PLD is really good for this. Sentinel + many of RUN's JAs at the start established hate so well that I never pulled it off even when using Last Stand out of the gates.
In regards to the second shield, we did a run where we tried to get it to use it. It took about 22 minutes of cautiously pecking away at it before it finally got the double shield up. My ranged attacks did nothing, neither did my physical weaponskills. Our RUN was striking for non zero damage after I put up BoG frailty. So it may still be a 50% DT 2000 damage filter with some additional complexity. I didn't actually log his damage so I don't know nor do I care enough to do further testing as it took massive effort to deliberately get the double shield up for just one test. If you're truly afraid of this, bring a SMN although I wouldn't recommend waiting around for one. In the unlikely event that it does get a double shield up, you can try melee weaponskills or you can also just start over.
Glad to see it done melee style too.
RUN/PLD is really good for this. Sentinel + many of RUN's JAs at the start established hate so well that I never pulled it off even when using Last Stand out of the gates.
In regards to the second shield, we did a run where we tried to get it to use it. It took about 22 minutes of cautiously pecking away at it before it finally got the double shield up. My ranged attacks did nothing, neither did my physical weaponskills. Our RUN was striking for non zero damage after I put up BoG frailty. So it may still be a 50% DT 2000 damage filter with some additional complexity. I didn't actually log his damage so I don't know nor do I care enough to do further testing as it took massive effort to deliberately get the double shield up for just one test. If you're truly afraid of this, bring a SMN although I wouldn't recommend waiting around for one. In the unlikely event that it does get a double shield up, you can try melee weaponskills or you can also just start over.
Glad to see it done melee style too.
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
In the unlikely event that it does get a double shield up,
I must be really unlucky then, run into double shield couple times from back to back immortal shield move. I didn't ss it, but in one run I see 2 shield move happened in less than 10 sec(I think) from 3 people DDing and feeding tp.
So basically we just go *** it let's smn instead.
We don't use whm, so maybe the lack of subtle blow spell is what makes it spam shield so fast?
Afania said: »
I must be really unlucky then, run into double shield couple times from back to back immortal shield move. I didn't ss it, but in one run I see 2 shield move happened in less than 10 sec(I think) from 3 people DDing and feeding tp.
2-3 ppl riding Triple Shot will do that. :)
Shiva.Arislan said: »
Afania said: »
I must be really unlucky then, run into double shield couple times from back to back immortal shield move. I didn't ss it, but in one run I see 2 shield move happened in less than 10 sec(I think) from 3 people DDing and feeding tp.
2-3 ppl riding Triple Shot will do that. :)
Full time Triple shot or bust >:O
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
RUN/PLD is really good for this.
2nd this....we changed to RUN/PLD as well(and the pulling path so all aoe ja hits every member) and it worked extremely well. I had quite a bit of hate issue with RUN/BLU before but we no longer pull anymore hate after she changed SJ.
Even with 46-48k last stand + 60k light (we also changed to allies roll for bigger SC) I never pull hate anymore. It's incredibly good.
Highly recommend it.
[+]
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